Headphone Jamming - Monitor mixes

[aod]

I have the set up pictured in my home studio. This is primarily for jamming with a friend and recording those jams.

The Mic and Guitar go straight to the DAW via the Audio Interface and the drums are recorded as MIDI. This all works fine.

For monitoring, I’m taking the headphone output of the interface into a channel in the mixer.

The V-Drums output (internal sound) goes to the mixer in another channel.
The mixer output goes to a Headphone amp, with headphones for 2+ people.
As you can see there is only 1 monitor mix here, just independent overall volume via the headphone amp.

I was wondering if using the built-in Aux Send/Return stuff could make for more flexible monitoring, but then realised the mixer output is still just one output going to one input in the headphone amp.

What would be nice is for at least 2 of the headphone outs having their own monitor mixes between Ch1 and Ch3/4 in the picture.

Perhaps I need one more box of tricks to get more granular monitoring? Can anyone help out with suggestions?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Use a TRS->Dual TS splitter cable to take the stereo headphone output of the interface into the two mono channels of mixer, with the guitar and mic panned hard left/right in the DAW so you have individual control in the mixer.

Connect one set of headphones to the mixer directly and set up a mix on the channel faders in the usual way.

Connect the headphone amp to the pre-fade Aux 1 output, and set up a second independent headphone mix using the Aux 1 controls.

The main mixer headphone out can be in stereo if you want. The Aux1 mix will always be mono.

[aod]

Use a TRS->Dual TS splitter cable to take the stereo headphone output of the interface into the two mono channels of mixer, with the guitar and mic panned hard left/right in the DAW so you have individual control in the mixer.

Connect one set of headphones to the mixer directly and set up a mix on the channel faders in the usual way.

Connect the headphone amp to the pre-fade Aux 1 output, and set up a second independent headphone mix using the Aux 1 controls.

The main mixer headphone out can be in stereo if you want. The Aux1 mix will always be mono.

Many thanks, this sounds close to what I was looking for, except, I'm not bothered about the Guitar/Mic monitoring being split.

It's more about the the Guitar/Mic (combo) and V-Drums being split into 2 monitor mixes. So me as the drummer can have my drums at different levels to the guitar (including mic), and the guitarist can have his own monitor levels between the guitar and drums.

[Sam Spoons]

That will work fine, you can adjust the three inputs, mic, guitar and drums independently on both headphone mixes using the aux 1 controls for the mix to the HA400 and the main faders for the one using the desk HP out.

[Kwackman]

Deleted as Hugh & Sam have answered with much better solutions!

(Usually, if someone else has posted a response before you've finished writing a reply you get a warning when you press the "Submit" button. No big deal, but I didn't see one?)

[aod]

That will work fine, you can adjust the three inputs, mic, guitar and drums independently on both headphone mixes using the aux 1 controls for the mix to the HA400 and the main faders for the one using the desk HP out.

Many thanks!

I kind of have this working, but one small problem.

The output for the signal via the mixer headphone out is perfect.

However, using the Aux controls I'm only getting the output in 1 side (ear).

This is using a 3.5mm Stereo jack cable (with 6.35mm adapter), in the mixer side (labelled 2 FX Aux Send), and the same to the back of the HA400 input. (see green highlighted image)



I also tried a 2x 6.35mm (1/4") Mono Jack in the mixer side (labelled 2 FX and 1 Mon Aux Send) to 3.5mm Stereo Jack plug cable to the back of HA400 input, in case 2FX / 1Mon were L&R. (see green and yellow highlighted image)



I did try a commination of different cables and mono adapters in case it made a difference, but not sure what is causing the signal to only output in one side.

[BWC]

...but not sure what is causing the signal to only output in one side.

...because...

The main mixer headphone out can be in stereo if you want. The Aux1 mix will always be mono.

I also tried a 2x 6.35mm (1/4") Mono Jack in the mixer side (labelled 2 FX and 1 Mon Aux Send) to 3.5mm Stereo Jack plug cable to the back of HA400 input, in case 2FX / 1Mon were L&R. (see green and yellow highlighted image)

Not L & R, two separate mono sends. ...with separate controls...

[Sam Spoons]

The aux signal is (as Hugh said) mono so you'll need a suitable cable, probably a TS jack to a TRS with the ring and sleeve shorted to feed the left and right channels of the HA400 as the HA400 doesn't have a mono/stereo switch. I'm not sure if the aux output is balanced or not but either way TRS-TRS cable won't work correctly.

The aux 1 and aux 2 are separate mono feeds not left/right and you might be able to fudge it by using the aux 2 for the other ear but I suspect that aux 1 is pre-fade and aux 2 is post so that's not ideal.

[aod]

...but not sure what is causing the signal to only output in one side.

...because...

The main mixer headphone out can be in stereo if you want. The Aux1 mix will always be mono.

I also tried a 2x 6.35mm (1/4") Mono Jack in the mixer side (labelled 2 FX and 1 Mon Aux Send) to 3.5mm Stereo Jack plug cable to the back of HA400 input, in case 2FX / 1Mon were L&R. (see green and yellow highlighted image)

Not L & R, two separate mono sends. ...with separate controls...

Thank you!

For some reason this...

The main mixer headphone out can be in stereo if you want. The Aux1 mix will always be mono.

...was invisible to me when I read it the other day!

Makes sense now, at least I know it's not defective cables etc (just the wrong ones). I do have an almost inconceivable array of cables and adapters (mono and stereo) so will see if there's anything I can do with this.

The aux signal is (as Hugh said) mono so you'll need a suitable cable, probably a TS jack to a TRS with the ring and sleeve shorted to feed the left and right channels of the HA400 as the HA400 doesn't have a mono/stereo switch. I'm not sure if the aux output is balanced or not but either way TRS-TRS cable won't work correctly.

The aux 1 and aux 2 are separate mono feeds not left/right and you might be able to fudge it by using the aux 2 for the other ear but I suspect that aux 1 is pre-fade and aux 2 is post so that's not ideal.

Thanks for explaining. As mentioned I might have the required cables for this, once I get my head around TRS/TS (not terminology I use, but I checked and think TRS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Stereo/Balanced and TS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Mono/Unbalanced?)

How do you short the ring and sleeve on this cable? Is it a DIY job (I’m handy with electronics / soldering), or something I need to buy?

[Hugh Robjohns]

I checked and think TRS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Stereo/Balanced and TS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Mono/Unbalanced?)

Correct.

TRS — tip, ring, sleeve — has three terminals which be used either for a mono balanced connection (hot, cold, sheild), or a stereo unbalanced connection (left, right, shared ground), depending on the equipment.

TS — tip, sleeve — has just two connections and is used for mono unbalanced audio (signal, ground).

How do you short the ring and sleeve on this cable? Is it a DIY job (I’m handy with electronics / soldering), or something I need to buy?

It's unfortunate that the HA400 doesn't have a mono switch. So you'll need a bespoke adapter cable that takes the (unbalanced mono) signal from your mixer (on a TS plug) into both channels of the HA400 on a TRS plug.

So you need to make up a cable with a TS plug at one end and a TRS at the other. The signal wire(s) connect between the tip at the mixer end and both tip and ring at the headphone amp end. The cable shield connects to the sleeve terminal at both ends.

If you want to modify an existing TS-TS instrument lead, remove one TS plug and replace it with a TRS, linking the ring terminal to the tip.

If modifying a TRS-TRS cable, replace one TRS plug with a TS, placing both signal wires on the tip terminal.

[aod]

I checked and think TRS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Stereo/Balanced and TS = 6.35mm (1/4") Jack Mono/Unbalanced?)

Correct.

TRS — tip, ring, sleeve — has three terminals which be used either for a mono balanced connection (hot, cold, sheild), or a stereo unbalanced connection (left, right, shared ground), depending on the equipment.

TS — tip, sleeve — has just two connections and is used for mono unbalanced audio (signal, ground).

How do you short the ring and sleeve on this cable? Is it a DIY job (I’m handy with electronics / soldering), or something I need to buy?

It's unfortunate that the HA400 doesn't have a mono switch. So you'll need a bespoke adapter cable that takes the (unbalanced mono) signal from your mixer (on a TS plug) into both channels of the HA400 on a TRS plug.

So you need to make up a cable with a TS plug at one end and a TRS at the other. The signal wire(s) connect between the tip at the mixer end and both tip and ring at the headphone amp end. The cable shield connects to the sleeve terminal at both ends.

If you want to modify an existing TS-TS instrument lead, remove one TS plug and replace it with a TRS, linking the ring terminal to the tip.

If modifying a TRS-TRS cable, replace one TRS plug with a TS, placing both signal wires on the tip terminal.

Just to say many thanks for the advice - I got this working with a modified TRS-TRS cable, replacing one plug with a TS. Nice to have this extra flexibility with monitoring!

What would be a decent 'budget' solution for this kind of thing where i could get say 3-4 separate headphone mixes, from about 3-4 inputs. I guess this would replace my mixer and HA400?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Budget and enhanced flexibility aren't often comfortable bedfellows.

I have two solutions for this kind of thing. In the hardware domain I use an old Yamaha DM1000 digital desk with 8 aux sends for individual monitor mixes, feeding an equally old Behringer HA4700 four-channel phones amp.

And for the DAW I use an RME interface with Totalmix to generate individual mixes direct from the inputs for different monitoring outputs.

But neither of those would count as budget.

Your best bet is probably to find a second-hand larger mixer with multiple auxes and/or matrix outputs.

[Drew Stephenson]

Possibly something like a Zoom L8 or Behringer XR12?
Not really cheap but about as low as you can go new and get separate headphone mixes I think.

[Sam Spoons]

Behringer XR12 has 4 mic inputs and 8 line inputs with 2 aux's and stereo mains for a little over £300. Potentially that would get you 4 separate mixes with a little fudging, would that do?

[aod]

Cheers all! Yeah I suppose 'budget' in this context could just be good value, I realise I won't get anything for say £100, but equally I don't want to go spending £1000 for example. So perhaps £200-£300 or so would be about what I was thinking

[aod]

Forgot to mention, I do actually have a Yamaha Pro Mix 01, which I'm not using anymore as it needs some refurbing, but not sure if this has any of the capability required

[Sam Spoons]

Forgot to mention, I do actually have a Yamaha Pro Mix 01, which I'm not using anymore as it needs some refurbing, but not sure if this has any of the capability required

That has two aux outputs plus mains so yes it should do what you need with a bit of creative routing.

[sonics]

A Behringer XR16 has mains plus four auxs. A very nice and powerful little mixer. Perhaps you could find a used one?