Steven Slate virtual mics and rooms

[shazer]

Anyone tried these out they seem to get a lot of rave reviews, VMS models expensive mics and their room plugins puts you in virtual rooms mimicking expensive studios and even cars on microphones.

Reason I'm interested is I tried something similar from Waves (Abbey Road) and honestly it does do something especially for judging low end.

[shufflebeat]

Anyone tried these out they seem to get a lot of rave reviews, VMS models expensive mics and their room plugins puts you in virtual rooms mimicking expensive studios and even cars on headphones.

I'm interested is I tried something similar from Waves (Abbey Road) and honestly it does do something especially for judging low end.

Suggested edit, unless I’m reading this wrong.

I bought the little SS condenser mic to use with my Tonedexter guitar pedal, particularly for its apparent neutrality and linearity.

The included software I’ve found myself applying to existing recordings made using a variety of mics and found it to be very useful in adapting the character of an element to the context of a mix.

It’s been a very hit and miss affair in my situation but the mic is good and the software does something pretty well, just not sure what.

[shazer]

Interesting, I was hoping someone used the virtual rooms as there's people talking of selling off their monitors as a result of this setup!

[sonics]

No sensible engineer would sell their monitors and restrict themselves to headphones. That's just talk!

I have Slate modeling mics and use them regularly. I get excellent results. I'm not a fan of old gear for old gear's sake and know only too well the inconsistencies one finds with older microphones. Modern systems that emulate older gear is just my sort of thing. I'd like to get a Sphere system soon.

I also use the Waves Nx system virtually (pun intended) every day.

I have not tried the Slate headphone system, but would really like to. It's very cheap, so a purchase is quite likely.

[jaminem]

I use VMS, its really convenient I find. You can stick it front of anything pretty much and as long as you get it in roughly the right place you can come back later and apply the models to it to optimise. From that PoV it's a great Swiss army knife when you're time crunched.

I also found it good for ascertaining which Mic suits a singer better. As such I will always have it as a B mic in front of every singer. Yes I try and choose the right mic for the singers voice but it provides a useable alternative if I think something is missing.

It also led to another mic purchase - I found that for my room and the majority of singers/songs I was producing I nearly always came back to the Sony C800 model, so I ended up getting the Warm 800 which has become my primary mic, still have the VMS as an alternative. This way we get a decent sound with the Warm, and can crack on with the session, safe in the knowledge that If we get a great performance we do have options in post.

I find flow really important in sessions, it can be a bit of a buzz kill getting singers to keeping stopping to audition mics when they want to crack on. VMS helps with that.

[shazer]

I also use the Waves Nx system virtually (pun intended) every day.

Yeah I got the Waves Abbey Road studio with the Nx but without the head tracker so the Nx is not used. I found that really useful as I don't have a treated room and it translated the final mix well. Apparently the Slate virtual studio is a significant step up from that.

[Dave Rowles]

I've got the ML-1, ML-2 and the VSX headphones.

The ML-1 is a great mic. Even without the modelling software, it's a very linear and neutral sounding mic. The modelling adds flavours and tones that alter the mic's sound so much that it's very usable in a lot of situations. The ML-2s have been particularly useful for getting a "close to" C414 sound and for a fraction of the price, though they area. bit flimsy...studio use only. I find the ML-1 emulations to be a bit more subtle, but I always manage to get a great sound out of anything recorded with the mic. SoS did a rather extensive review and found the ML-1 to and accompanying software to be almost perfect representations of the associated mics.

The VSX headphones are, quite frankly, amazing as far as I'm concerned. If you've got a perfectly treated room with some decent monitors, then they're useful, but probably not going to replace your mixing suite. However, a LOT of us don't have that, and having used them for around 8 months as my only mix reference and mixing tool I've not had better mixes...ever.

I'm a touring live engineer, and one thing that makes my life easier is a high end rig and mixing console, and great performers on stage. While I've never had the opportunity to use a high end studio, or record in great spaces with top musicians, what I've been able to do with the VSX is a lot closer to what I can do with a full high end rig with my top client.

I'd have to spend a lot of money and time to get a better mixing space...and I can mix while my wife and children are sleeping in the same/next room.

[shufflebeat]

High praise indeed.

It’s the ml-2 I have and I’ve found it very vulnerable to moisture effects. It has been sent to convalesce in a zipper bag with a couple of silicon damp-suckers a couple of times but has recovered well.

[Dave Rowles]

Yeah, I've broken one of the ML-2s as it slipped out of my hand, and it's been assigned to my "learn to do electrical soldering" pile. But if it's looked after it's a very useful mic to have on hand.

[Andy McBain]

The VSX headphones are, quite frankly, amazing as far as I'm concerned. If you've got a perfectly treated room with some decent monitors, then they're useful, but probably not going to replace your mixing suite. However, a LOT of us don't have that, and having used them for around 8 months as my only mix reference and mixing tool I've not had better mixes...ever.

I'm a touring live engineer, and one thing that makes my life easier is a high end rig and mixing console, and great performers on stage. While I've never had the opportunity to use a high end studio, or record in great spaces with top musicians, what I've been able to do with the VSX is a lot closer to what I can do with a full high end rig with my top client.

I'd have to spend a lot of money and time to get a better mixing space...and I can mix while my wife and children are sleeping in the same/next room.

Seconded. I'm in a less than ideal room in a terraced house, with small monitors - working on mostly bass heavy electronic music. I hate to use the word "game changer" but for me, VSX really is. The low end reproduction is worth the price of admission alone and I'm making mix decisions with confidence, which seem to translate. Very happy.

Take Slate's marketing with a pinch of salt, though. I doubt anyone has really sold their monitors since buying VSX, as good as they are.

[Wonks]

They might have if they’ve got a poor room to mix in and can’t or won’t fit acoustic treatment.

But not because the Slate system is so much better than good monitors in a well treated room (which is what the Slate system is trying to duplicate).

[shazer]

They might have if they’ve got a poor room to mix in and can’t or won’t fit acoustic treatment.

But not because the Slate system is so much better than good monitors in a well treated room (which is what the Slate system is trying to duplicate).

I think that’s the beauty of the slate system, you can get mixes that translate for a few hundred quid. They’ve got a few high end rooms and monitors and a car as well so you can do the car check virtually as well

[sonics]

I think that’s the beauty of the slate system, you can get mixes that translate for a few hundred quid.

You don't need the Slate VSX to do that. All you actually need is a good pair of headphones with a flat response or one you know. The room modelling is a neat extra, but not the main feature IMO.

[shazer]

I think that’s the beauty of the slate system, you can get mixes that translate for a few hundred quid.

You don't need the Slate VSX to do that. All you actually need is a good pair of headphones with a flat response or one you know. The room modelling is a neat extra, but not the main feature IMO.

I think the room modelling is actually the main feature judging by the reviews, effectively sticks you in a properly treated room with high end monitors. People simply say they get better results, quicker and that’s all a time and money saver.

But of course there’s no doubt you can mix on headphones with the experience, but if there’s tools out there at a reasonable price that can improve the process it’s worth a look (or listen)

[sonics]

To clarify, I believe what Slate have is the power of marketing. You don't need room modeling at all to get good mixes, but adding a tool to check mixes in different virtual spaces to a set of corrected headphones was a clever idea and will make some mixers, especially the inexperienced, feel more confident. I think it's a great idea, and many people are getting good results with the system it seems.

I may well be buying VSX at some point, and fully expect the headphones to be fairly cheap and liable to break unless taken care of!

I've been using the Waves Nx system with headphone correction for over five years. It's worth noting that it now has hundreds of headphone EQs included (they should have done that much sooner!) so it is a competitor. Perhaps they'll tweak and relaunch it as they've just done with the Scheps Omni Channel, but they still won't market it as aggressively as Slate. I think they send one email per day to me!

[shazer]

To clarify, I believe what Slate have is the power of marketing. You don't need room modeling at all to get good mixes, but adding a tool to check mixes in different virtual spaces to a set of corrected headphones was a clever idea and will make some mixers, especially the inexperienced, feel more confident. I think it's a great idea, and many people are getting good results with the system it seems.

I may well be buying VSX at some point, and fully expect the headphones to be fairly cheap and liable to break unless taken care of!

I've been using the Waves Nx system with headphone correction for over five years. It's worth noting that it now has hundreds of headphone EQs included (they should have done that much sooner!) so it is a competitor. Perhaps they'll tweak and relaunch it as they've just done with the Scheps Omni Channel, but they still won't market it as aggressively as Slate. I think they send one email per day to me!

Fair enough, personally if it's close to the Waves ones then I've got what I need now anyway. The Waves Abbey Road had the AKG702 in there already which was useful as well as it's my headphones.

I've got the original Scheps good plugin, I wonder if the Waves Update Plan would give you the upgraded version. I've completely avoided ever paying for the WUP so far and long may that be the case!

[sonics]

The Waves Abbey Road had the AKG702 in there already which was useful as well as it's my headphones.

There are a couple more rooms available for Nx as you'll know. I think 702's and your preferred flavour of Nx would be all you really need, but if you've got spare cash the VSX would be fun to try out. Fun fact: The headphone EQ curves are actually hackable. Don't ask me how I know!

I've got the original Scheps good plugin

The Scheps update is free, but only if you're "current". WUP on that one plugin might be $10-20. Maybe worth it if you use it a lot.

[shazer]

The Waves Abbey Road had the AKG702 in there already which was useful as well as it's my headphones.

There are a couple more rooms available for Nx as you'll know. I think 702's and your preferred flavour of Nx would be all you really need, but if you've got spare cash the VSX would be fun to try out. Fun fact: The headphone EQ curves are actually hackable. Don't ask me how I know!

I've got the original Scheps good plugin

The Scheps update is free, but only if you're "current". WUP on that one plugin might be $10-20. Maybe worth it if you use it a lot.

Wait do you get extra rooms if you have the head tracker? Do you find that useful I just switch between the distances and pan around.

I've got the Waves Diamond bundle and a bunch of other stuff, I don't want to look at the cost of updating all of that. Might hold off till I'm forced to (OS upgrade or new PC)..

[sonics]

Wait do you get extra rooms if you have the head tracker? Do you find that useful I just switch between the distances and pan around.

The other studios are available as separate plugins at $30/35 each. You can buy all four as a collection for $80. They all work with the head-tracker (which I don't use).

I've got the Waves Diamond bundle and a bunch of other stuff, I don't want to look at the cost of updating all of that.

You can update only the Omni Channel, if you wish. You don't have to WUP everything. That will give you v2.

[shazer]

Wait do you get extra rooms if you have the head tracker? Do you find that useful I just switch between the distances and pan around.

The other studios are available as separate plugins at $30/35 each. You can buy all four as a collection for $80. They all work with the head-tracker (which I don't use).

I've got the Waves Diamond bundle and a bunch of other stuff, I don't want to look at the cost of updating all of that.

You can update only the Omni Channel, if you wish. You don't have to WUP everything. That will give you v2.

Ok thanks, I'll have a think about that. Which is your favourite studio out of interest and the genres you mix!

[sonics]

Ok thanks, I'll have a think about that. Which is your favourite studio out of interest and the genres you mix!

Changing your mixing environment is a big thing and not to be taken lightly, so I don't flip around much. I work mostly with dialogue and documentary-style music, plus some folk, vocal pop, and rock. Mostly older styles; I don't touch EDM or rap/hip-hop. I'm an "older-style" human myself, you see.

For long, general composing and balance sessions I still use the original Nx the most. For me, it just has a great sense of space that helps me work comfortably on headphones for extended sessions. (I'm unable to use a treated studio space right now.)
For music, Ocean Way and occasionally CLA for heavy pop and rock (plus the boom box!). I've not tried Germano (Hit Factory) much yet; the jury's out. I bought ARS3 recently but have yet to use it.

[shazer]

Ok thanks, I'll have a think about that. Which is your favourite studio out of interest and the genres you mix!

Changing your mixing environment is a big thing and not to be taken lightly, so I don't flip around much. I work mostly with dialogue and documentary-style music, plus some folk, vocal pop, and rock. Mostly older styles; I don't touch EDM or rap/hip-hop. I'm an "older-style" human myself, you see.

For long, general composing and balance sessions I still use the original Nx the most. For me, it just has a great sense of space that helps me work comfortably on headphones for extended sessions. (I'm unable to use a treated studio space right now.)
For music, Ocean Way and occasionally CLA for heavy pop and rock (plus the boom box!). I've not tried Germano (Hit Factory) much yet; the jury's out. I bought ARS3 recently but have yet to use it.

You seem to be a good all rounder there musically!

I'll have to look at CLA love that guy his kits are some of my favourites in SSD5 and he's great for rockier genres thanks. I'm going to browse Waves and read through these rooms cheers

[sonics]

I'm going to browse Waves and read through these rooms cheers

Don't forget that they can all be demo'd. I'd recommend doing one at a time to get the most value from the demo period. If you really love any of the spaces, $30 is really not much for what it provides, I feel.

[shazer]

I'm going to browse Waves and read through these rooms cheers

Don't forget that they can all be demo'd. I'd recommend doing one at a time to get the most value from the demo period. If you really love any of the spaces, $30 is really not much for what it provides, I feel.

Oh yeah course, yeah Waves suck you in with the cheap plugins and then suck your blood over time with the WUP

[Dave Rowles]

To clarify, I believe what Slate have is the power of marketing. You don't need room modeling at all to get good mixes, but adding a tool to check mixes in different virtual spaces to a set of corrected headphones was a clever idea and will make some mixers, especially the inexperienced, feel more confident. I think it's a great idea, and many people are getting good results with the system it seems.

I may well be buying VSX at some point, and fully expect the headphones to be fairly cheap and liable to break unless taken care of!

I've been using the Waves Nx system with headphone correction for over five years. It's worth noting that it now has hundreds of headphone EQs included (they should have done that much sooner!) so it is a competitor. Perhaps they'll tweak and relaunch it as they've just done with the Scheps Omni Channel, but they still won't market it as aggressively as Slate. I think they send one email per day to me!

We all need to find the tool that works for us, and there are a load of options out there. Do you "need" VSX to attain great mixes? Maybe not. Does it make my life measurably easier and drastically improve my results at a much faster speed? Yes.

I have some AKG K712pros as mixing headphones and I could get good results on them, but I always found it took a while checking things out on other systems. I tried sonorworks and even EQing them myself but nothing made them perfect. My studio mixes still lacked polish as soon as I tried it out on a different system. Whenever I've tried getting into waves plugins I've always thought "oh this is great" and then 2 months later after the shiny new plugin feel has gone, not really finding a use for it.

I mix live bands in weird/wonderful and acoustically challenging spaces and I'll get them sounding great within an hour. It sounds awesome in the room, but you know that mix wouldn't translate out of that space. Even when touring with the same band in different venues, the tweaks you have to make to suit the room alters the mix quite a lot. But I mix like that, and so what I want from a studio system is to be able to mix so it sounds great in that space as I hear it and then that mix translates to different systems easily without having to tweak and revise loads. That's what I get from the Slate system. I generally only switch between 2/3 rooms at the end of the mixing process, but do all my mixing in the NRG or slate room and my mixes have been more polished and sound better straight away.

Slate companies are heavy on the marketing, and I used to find it really annoying. But I've come to realise it's just because he really believes in his products, and what he's trying to do. I'm sure we can all come over as overbearing and annoying when talking about things we believe in.

Fact is, the VSX headphones are the best sounding monitor system I've ever had.

Oh...and they are quite well built too.