Listening as a creative experience

[Arpangel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejGAb ... rt_radio=1

If only more people listened, to what they are actually playing, and what others are playing, in whatever genre of music, it doesn’t matter.
So many just play what they have predetermined they’re going to play, regardless of what’s going on around them, or they play what’s expected.
This is a genre of music that makes you think in a different way, some will hate it, but those that have explored it, will tell you that once you’ve been involved, you will never hear "music" the same way again, or sound in general.
You can apply what you learn from free-improvisation in any form of music, it just opens up new avenues of possibility, the musical equivalent of LSD.

[Drew Stephenson]

If only more people listened, to what they are actually playing, and what others are playing, in whatever genre of music, it doesn’t matter.

Very much so. For me, willingness / ability to listen trumps technical chops in any live session.

[amanise]

I've always been a great "question and answer fan" in improv sessions. You *have* to listen then - or you can't answer coherently. I watched the video. I'd describe it more as a kind of musical 'mindfulness' rather than LSD. Fewer disturbing flashbacks! Although that double bass player did look pretty disturbed - so maybe your right after all

[OneWorld]

There is a name for this genre, it's called 'noise' it's just someone trying to over artify things using musical instruments. There's nowt new under the sun - It's been done before, it'll be done again

[Arpangel]

There's nowt new under the sun - It's been done before, it'll be done again

That could be said of any genre of music.
To me, there is no such thing as noise, and music is organised noise, more appropriately "sound" in one form or another. Noise to me is always "unwanted" sound.
I like free-improv especially the reaction it has on peoples opinions, it says more about the person than the music in question.
That doesn’t apply when you’re at a free-improv gig ("free" improve is a bad label, no music is free there are always self imposed rules) at a gig the people there have already bought into it, for one reason or another.
These self imposed rules, are one of the reasons why I stopped playing on the free scene, I don’t draw lines in the sand, or impose rules.

[OneWorld]

There's nowt new under the sun - It's been done before, it'll be done again

That could be said of any genre of music.
To me, there is no such thing as noise, and music is organised noise, more appropriately "sound" in one form or another. Noise to me is always "unwanted" sound.
I like free-improv especially the reaction it has on peoples opinions, it says more about the person than the music in question.
That doesn’t apply when you’re at a free-improv gig ("free" improve is a bad label, no music is free there are always self imposed rules) at a gig the people there have already bought into it, for one reason or another.
These self imposed rules, are one of the reasons why I stopped playing on the free scene, I don’t draw lines in the sand, or impose rules.

Who gives a hoot whether there's rules or not, as long as the results floots your boot

[BJG145]

I'm glad they enjoyed themselves.

[Arpangel]

When I’m playing or recording music I’m not actually enjoying myself, I can only describe my feelings as like a healing, or cleansing of some kind, and it’s not a pleasant one, it’s like a definite spiritual experience, beyond anything else, for me.
It’s not musical, it’s not political, it’s not about "Me" it’s not about what I want others to "think" about me.
Sometimes others connect and find a common feeling, the audience, they share for just a moment, what you are are trying to convey, the sharing of a common suffering, that brings us together.
That applies to all the music that interests me, I’m not talking about trying to sweep things under the carpet, to forget about them, there are many types of music that fulfil that role.

[tea for two]

Whereas nearly all my life I have received whatever I have received from others music : whether to get me through years I have no desire to revisit, whether something sacred, whether a host of differing emotions from euphoria to placidness, whether for just listening to music which to me is one of the miracles in this universe of constant infinite miracles including the miracle of our living breathing self for which science has merely touched the tip of the iceberg.

For the past three years I have received mostly from my own music that is music that somehow travelled forth from me.

[Arpangel]

Whereas nearly all my life I have received whatever I have received from others music : whether to get me through years I have no desire to revisit, whether something sacred, whether a host of differing emotions from euphoria to placidness, whether for just listening to music which to me is one of the miracles in this universe of constant infinite miracles including the miracle of our living breathing self for which science has merely touched the tip of the iceberg.

For the past three years I have received mostly from my own music that is music that somehow travelled forth from me.

Do you listen to tracks you’ve done over and over again? just like say, you would someone else’s tracks, doesn’t matter, could be a local pub guy, or a famous name.
This subject tends to crop up here a lot, and that is, our insecurity about what we do, we tend to talk about this a lot, with no conclusions.
Artists come from lots of differing backgrounds, forums, or many other avenues, it really doesn’t matter, the yardstick is what you’ve done, not what you intend to do, or might do, it’s what you’ve done, between being born, and going into the hole.

[tea for two]

Do you listen to tracks you’ve done over and over again?

Yes.
They are the only ones I listen over and over these past 3 years.
Whereas nearly all my life I listened to others music over and over.

Only thing is something I didn't realise when I did it :
music I have shared online that album I shared on Self Promotion forum in January this year I feel no longer belongs to me so I hardly listen to those pieces.
Same I shared an EDM piece about a month ago on a thread about LUFS which I hardly listen to as I feel it no longer belongs to me.
Made me realise my music pieces that is the music that somehow travelled from me were I to listen to them over and over : I should keep them to myself so that I feel they still belong to me.
Only exception to this were I to feel one or more of my music pieces might do something for someone then I would share.
This is in stark contrast to my youuuff when I wanted the World to hear my music lol.

[Arpangel]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.
It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

[tea for two]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.
It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

I've pushed to the back journeys as it were. I don't care to recall journeys. It is all about the destination for me nowadays. This is reason I can listen to my completed pieces that is the pieces that somehow spewed from me over and over.

[OneWorld]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.
It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

........I don't care to recall journeys. It is all about the destination for me nowadays. ..............

Are you going to have that inscribed on your headstone?

[amanise]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.
It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

Currently wrestling with that one myself. I have recently stopped trying to disguise my voice with delay and flange effects - and have left the main vox dry or just a slight reverb on my last couple of 'songs'. Its been a big deal for me as it sounds truly horrible to me. In terms of pitch I know its not far out because that's measurable now. It just sounds horrible to me. However, leaves me with a bit of problem with previous tracks I have a totally different vox sound on. So - toying with the idea of remixing quite a few of my older ones taking off the delay and flange to leave a clean vocal like the new ones.

Trouble is - I have a HUGE sense of inertia about going back to those songs that I feel have left my domain. I will have to do the same thing as I did over the clean sound - and just get over it, and get on with it. If I can do this I'll re-release them as new songs with names that reflect that they're a remix. I'm pretty sure there are no barriers to this as they are mine after all. I'm also sure it'll make no difference to their popularity - but they will sound more appropriate now. I'm really surprised at how much my poor brain just does not want to do it.

[BJG145]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.

Interesting one. I rarely listen to stuff I've been involved with. I wouldn't have thought most musicians would regularly listen to their own stuff for fun. Wouldn't say never though. I haven't created any solo work.

It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

I wouldn't reach the same conclusion. I guess I think of a recording mainly as a way of presenting material to others, rather than oneself.

[Drew Stephenson]

I regularly listen to my own stuff. I mean, if not me then who? And if I didn't want to listen to it why did I create it in the first place?

[BJG145]

...yes, it's an interesting question, and as I was typing that I wondered what other reactions would be. And if I'd written stuff as good as Drew's I'd probably be listening to it more often.

I think that writing stuff that you want to listen to yourself is an excellent idea; easier said than done, and I'd hazard that a lot of people don't. But maybe writing stuff you wouldn't listen to yourself is fine too.

Lots of variation here I expect. Lots of approaches.

[Arpangel]

I wouldn't reach the same conclusion. I guess I think of a recording mainly as a way of presenting material to others, rather than oneself.

So you’re playing to the gallery?

Maybe.

Who do we actually write for?

This is where Cage comes in, getting rid of the ego, and letting sounds (music) be themselves.

[BJG145]

So you’re playing to the gallery?

Not really what I meant...did Conrad re-read his own books? Dunno. Would they be any better or worse for that?

Should authors re-read their own books after publication? According to prolific bestselling author Wilbur Smith, the answer is a definite yes. He told the Independent: "I read a tremendous amount. Right now I’m reading my favourite author – Wilbur Smith."

https://hannahfielding.net/should-autho ... own-books/

Like I say, it's an interesting question, applicable to all forms of art.

[Drew Stephenson]

And if I'd written stuff as good as Drew's I'd probably be listening to it more often.

Ha! Your fiver is in the post!

[Folderol]

Yes I listen to my own compositions.
Sometimes it's something I really connect with - even years later.
Other times my response is "How the F*@~ did I manage that?"
Then there are the occasions it's. "What! The idea's OK but you murdered it. What you should have done is..."
Two (or more) hours later there is a shiny new version

[Arpangel]

Yes I listen to my own compositions.
Sometimes it's something I really connect with - even years later.
Other times my response is "How the F*@~ did I manage that?"
Then there are the occasions it's. "What! The idea's OK but you murdered it. What you should have done is..."
Two (or more) hours later there is a shiny new version

My reaction to my own stuff is varied, either, that’s up there with the best of them, but music isn’t a competition.
Or, what the f**k did you think you were up to?
Or, I just don’t care anymore.
The latter dominates.

[ManFromGlass]

I thought the topic would be more encompassing. Sure deep listening to music is a good skill to work on. I try to apply that to what people are saying, or what the meaning is behind what they are saying too and that’s tricky.
Trying to get what is really meant in written comments is harder for me, although I’m only listening to the words in my head.
If only language or music was more precise about conveying meaning.

[Arpangel]

I thought the topic would be more encompassing. Sure deep listening to music is a good skill to work on. I try to apply that to what people are saying, or what the meaning is behind what they are saying too and that’s tricky.
Trying to get what is really meant in written comments is harder for me, although I’m only listening to the words in my head.
If only language or music was more precise about conveying meaning.

You cover a lot there, and listening isn’t something that most musicians, unfortunately, like to do, but they like to "think" they do.
When in reality they are just imposing their egos and preconceived ideas.