Yamaha DM3S first thoughts

[ajay_m]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to work. As best I can determine, the DM3 supports HUI (and OSC, but that's a whole new ballgame) and when I add Klinke's plugin nothing works, same as if I use the default Reaper MCU plugin.

Doesn't seem to matter whether I choose 'Steinberg' or 'Others' from preferences, and indeed, both settings appear to work with the HUI plugin exactly the same, so I have no idea what they change. Still, this is a voyage of discovery, so let's see......

[Drew Stephenson]

Ah, yes. Klinke is for MCU.

[ajay_m]

I'm definitely gonna have to write 'the idiots guide to the DM3'. I spent an hour scratching my head this evening thinking 'this is weird, when I selected Mix 1/2 before, the master fader controlled the send level, now it doesn't', only to find that the custom views aren't per-scene, as I thought, but global, and I'd somehow managed to re-route the main out by just touching one of the icons.
This then bollixes up the 'sends on fader' views so that the master fader no longer controls the send volume, but the main console view still works fine. I'm not sure I completely understand the routing here, yet.
Luckily there's a 'reset to default' for these views but given the utter uselessness of Yamaha's reference manual, I can see a *lot* of people getting very confused.

[Arpangel]

I spent an hour scratching my head this evening thinking 'this is weird, when I selected Mix 1/2 before, the master fader controlled the send level, now it doesn't', only to find that the custom views aren't per-scene, as I thought, but global, and I'd somehow managed to re-route the main out by just touching one of the icons.
This then bollixes up the 'sends on fader' views so that the master fader no longer controls the send volume, but the main console view still works fine.

Yeeeeeessssssss!? could you repeat that

I'm not sure I completely understand the routing here, yet.

I understand it completely, there’s a 113 bus leaving in five minutes and I’ll be on it.

[adamburgess]

You should! I had a total head-scratching time on a TF1 the other week. Similar things. Had a few surface and routing issues. Just didn't fit what I've been used to in recent years.

Not used a Yammy since the M7CL and the O1V96.

[ajay_m]

Well, I installed the copy of Cubase AI that you get a download code for with the DM3 so I could see what the control surface integration looks like in there.

Although the DM3 isn't listed in the control surface dropdown list, I chose Mackie HUI and the functionality was pretty good.
As with Reaper, the faders, mute and solo and record arm all work full duplex. Additionally with cubase the timecode display works and the rotary encoder allows you to move around the timeline.

The automation controls may or may not function - unfortunately I don't find Cubase terribly intuitive so I haven't explored in much depth,
Scrub and shuttle worked perfectly using the rotary control.

The transport controls work properly, unlike Reaper, where rewind to start isn't working. Pressing fast forward or rewind shuttle back and forth through the timeline as long as the buttons are pressed.
Channel strip names (first 4 chars) are displayed correctly.
Channel metering is functional as well. It doesn't update at very high speed and unlike Reaper I couldn't see any obvious place to change the control surface refresh interval but this may be configurable, who knows?.

Conclusion: It's certainly an adequate control surface under Cubase with pretty much all the core functionality you'd want at your fingertips.

However other DAWs are going to require pretty decent HUI support (not MCU) and in Reaper that's definitely not currently the case. This is not a big issue for me because I know how to write control surface plugins, provided of course I can ensure I know what the MIDI control sequences are, and someone kindly shared a link to the HUI protocol documents on the Reaper forums so that'll be a good start.

I'd certainly say that Yamaha have done a great job here. You have an all-in-one very capable mixer, a low-latency 18:18 audio interface which so far has worked perfectly in Reaper at least, and a perfectly decent control surface with the caveat that as far as I can see there's no way to control plugins on a channel. But given the four character limit on track names imposed by the HUI protocol I'm not sure how useful this would be. Also in my experience when I implemented this for Reaper, the default parameter names for plugins often don't resemble what the actual controls in the plugin UI are named, so this feature isn't as valuable as you might think.

[ajay_m]

Ok, well some good news. DrivenByMoss configured in HUI mode works quite well. Certainly better than Reaper's incomplete HUI plugin.

The timecode display works
All transport controls work correctly
Record arm, mute and solo all work
Scribble strips work
Metering works
The rotary encoder will move around the timeline
Scrub and shuttle do NOT work - the plugin log reports these keys aren't supported
Rec/Rdy All reports not supported
The automation buttons don't report any errors in the log but don't appear to work correctly. They can cause automation to be engaged but its unpredictable and things in general don't seem to work correctly here.
The bank switches work correctly but the channel switches, instead of moving all faders one position right or left, change the focus within the current bank. This is a bit of a nuisance because you can't as far as I can see position faders that lie across bank boundaries to be controllable within a single bank.
You cannot (AFAIK) configure the plugin so that the master fader is controllable, only the channel faders.
You cannot control channel pan (but this was true of the Cubase HUI plugin as well, because there simply are no controls exposed on the mixer that would allow this)

[ajay_m]

Correction: the master fader IS controllable under DrivenByMoss but appears after all channel faders so its position may be anywhere along the bank, probably why I missed it first time.
Also I hadn't understood how automation is supposed to work here, you have to select the mode then select channel on the desk. It then worked flawlessly.

[Dave.P]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the reporting on this. As a Cubase user it sounds like a very tempting idea for me.
Having been very disappointed with the support from Yamaha previously though I had always shied away from future releases as they dropped the driver support on my N8 mixer and no doubt may do on this too.
Currently with an SSL big Six, great for everything analogue and class compliant on Mac which made me more confident for the future.
Not in any way comparing those two, but look forward to hearing how you get on.

[ajay_m]

Now I'm starting to feel more comfortable finding my way around I'll just say that as a piece of hardware the dm3 is just superb. I can put headphones on and push the sliders up to a point where if I had live signal I'd probably lose my eardrums and there's total silence from the synth sources.
The audio interface has worked flawlessly at low latency and the screens all respond instantly, there's absolutely no lag.
It obviously provides the best control surface experience with cubase (obviously lacking channel pan but this could be added via an enhanced plugin as obviously the rotary encoder does transmit in control surface mode).
The only minor nitpick is that I would love some indication on the main screen of what busses are being monitored, you have to go into the monitor screen to see this. Of course you can (and I did) assign one or more monitor sources to the soft keys but oddly you don't seem to be able to assign actually bringing up the monitor screen from a soft key.
Possibly one of the best features is the two custom fader screens because even the master fader can be assigned to anything on those, ie it can control an input not just an output. This gives you 18 faders in two banks of 9 and because you can link stereo tracks you can just assign one of the pair on the custom view and both will track.

[tgfoyl1472]

Thanks for such detail account on your DM3 experience. I have been looking at this digital mixer to replace a StudioLive 32SC as I agree with several posts here the 32SC is quite large and I really like the form factor of the DM3.

As I keep waiting for this to become available I have learn that the Dante Version will not increase the channel count at all, it only allows flexibility for where to connect and to become part of a Dante network for larger installations like houses of worship, so Dante is not worth the money for my needs.

As I kept waiting for the DM3S to be in stock Allen & Heath launched the CQ-18T. It does not have faders which I am trying to live with but it does have some nice specs and a nice form factor for a small home studio.

Still trying to decide between the two as both are out of stock still.

[ajay_m]

As far as I know, PMT have the dm3s in stock. It depends whether you like real faders and whether you want a DAW control surface. If the answer to both of those is yes, then the dm3s is the obvious choice. Otherwise these little a&h mixers do look very cute.
Either way a digital mixer really does enhance studio ergonomics. Today I wanted to record a track from Spotify into reaper so I could slow it down and learn the piano part. This is easy with the dm3, just route the stereo outs to usb 16 and 17 and then when windows sends the audio out on usb 1 and 2 you can set up a track to record from 17 and 18 back from the mixer. Very handy.

[James Perrett]

Today I wanted to record a track from Spotify into reaper so I could slow it down and learn the piano part.

No need for any external hardware to do that in Reaper. Just click on the top right corner of the main window where it tells you the sample rate and file format, choose the WASAPI driver instead of ASIO and then click on Shared Loopback. The computer's output will then appear on inputs 1 and 2 in Reaper.

(I'm assuming you are using the Windows version of Reaper here).

[ajay_m]

That's a great tip, thanks for sharing. I know also there is a windows utility someone wrote (can't recall name of it) where you can repatch the default channel 1 and 2 out on asio to other channels I believe.

[sonics]

That's a great tip, thanks for sharing. I know also there is a windows utility someone wrote (can't recall name of it) where you can repatch the default channel 1 and 2 out on asio to other channels I believe.

VB-Audio's Voicemeeter software, perhaps? I've found it useful for routing audio in Windows. It also has a stream recorder.

[chrisnubile]

This fascinated me when it was announced. I am currently using one on a small live gig. Speech and background. d&b boxes. Compared to the now much more expensive CL and QL series I think the sound is slightly clearer, and you need to use the EQ less to get the desired result (my normal Yamaha EQ curves look super drastic), so perhaps especially in the light of the 96k capability there has been some revision of the circuitry (would definitely have a different AD/DA for the double sample
Rate). It’s still very much in the neutral Yamaha character, but I’m used to that. Some other digital mixers may have a more characterful sound but tbh when you are dealing with sound in a room you are more concerned with EQ and comp being effective than beautiful. Always really liked the compressors on yamaha desks. They just do what it says on the tin with minimal fuss. It’s not going to add fatness or mojo or whatever, just get on with (depending on settings) transparent and effective control of your dynamics.

Anyhow. UI is pretty
Much identical to a TF but with better build quality and a much much better screen. Missing having graphics I can assign to anything (seem to be permanently inserted on mix and stereo outputs but nowhere else.

I’d be interested to see how it works as a control surface. Combined with a laptop (and external
Drive!!) would make a peachy mobile
recording setup. Now most people talking about using it in a recording context could book a rehearsal
Room and easily record drums/bass/guitars etc live. That’s a big deal.

From a studio point of view … how many professional quality 16/8 interfaces can you think of in this price bracket? Quite the bargain.

Anyway. My two penneth.

[Dave.P]

Well just picked one up this morning- still getting my head around some functions, but so far very impressed.

I will no doubt be back with idiotic questions soon.

[ajay_m]

Well after a couple of months with it I'm very pleased with it. It's been flawless as an audio interface, all my problems with usb induced noise etc have vanished.

I love being able to just record the stereo out to a usb thumb drive, when you come up with an interesting idea you can just press a couple of buttons and capture it without worrying about bringing the computer out of standby and firing up the daw.

It's interesting to take material off YouTube etc and feed it through EQ or compression etc, helps get an intuitive feel for how processing works with different material, again without faffing around inside the computer.

Also nice if you're just listening to stuff through headphones or monitors, you can put a touch of EQ in to compensate for lower listening levels while just enjoying some music.

And I think the quality of the hardware is inspirational. The faders are precise and quiet, everything feels like a proper professional recording studio, it's just a really lovely piece of kit. And you know Yamaha will support it for a long time.

[Dave.P]

And true to form - my first question....on Mac here but probably not much difference in the principle.
I can record in Cubase and also hear back audio from streaming etc but only through headphones, not through my self powered Genelec speakers.
Speakers are connected on 7&8 Stereo Out which seems to be the way intended.
Just wondering what I am missing here to send the output to my speakers?

Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question and off to read the manual now.

[ajay_m]

Assuming you're not listening from one of the "sends on faders" pages then I would check that your stereo l and r output assignments are indeed to Omni 7 and 8 from the patch screen.

[Dave.P]

Many thanks for the reply- settings do seem correct but have powered down and will have a fresh start tomorrow.

[Dave.P]

What a difference a day makes - all set up now and still some tweaking to do but very happy with my new unit.
As has been mentioned, the manual is 360 odd pages but never seems to explain all that much at all.
Have even got the DAW remote running and it is a handy thing indeed. As I use Cubase mostly it might help, but surprised there is not a DM3 option in the listing under devices. considering the Yamaha/Steinberg association.
It does give me start, stop, record, timeline display and no doubt more that I have not yet found.
One other very minor gripe - no USB cable included with the unit!

[Robert Siroen]

Hi!

There is not much discussion going on about this little mixer, but this thread has already helped me a lot.

I'm working as an audio-tech in a theatre production in the Netherlands.
The production team bought a Yamaha DM3 Standard last december which is a neat little mixer!

There are a few things that came up and I seem unable to get in touch with Yamaha to answer my questions.

I will try to get my questions across as best as I can.

1. I can't seem to update the firmware. I'm currently on V1.10, and there is an update (V1.12). I've done all the steps they put in the update guide, but when powering on the mixer with the usb-drive inserted it's not asking me anything about "Update firmware?".
So my question: how to proceed?
I've tried multiple usb drives, formatted to FAT32. There is nothing on the drive but the file: "DM3_firmware_V1.12.bin"
I would really love to, because I've also encountered the problem with the delay function on the Stereo bus.

2. When making scenes I'm unable to delete scenes, or move their position. Which would be very handy in the production I'm in. Is this possible? Is this coming in a future firmware update? (also couldn't do it in the editor on my mac)

3. We're currently touring and yesterday the usb-connection simply stopped working. It worked fine for a couple of weeks, and all of a sudden it didn't. Tried a few cables, didn't make a change.
Today I've tried again, and then it worked again. So probably rebooting the desk would have fixed the issue, but I was a few minutes before show-start so I wasn't able to power off all the speakers before the audience came in.
Is this a common problem? Hardware or software?

4. Bus setup has:
- Pre EQ
- Pre Fader
- Fixed

My question is about the "fixed" setting.
Is is the same as post fader?

So I'll try to sketch a scenario I can't get my head around.

I'll go to: Bus setup > Mix 1/2 > Mono x2 > Fixed
Then in the Mix2 menu all my channels have jumped to 0.00dB and are off.
Why is this?

I guess I just don't understand what fixed means.

5. Is there such a thing where I can link my channel 1 fader to the send fader?
So for instance I'm able to to send 0.00dB of channel 1 to my FOH, send -6dB of channel 1 to my on stage monitors, but when I fade out my FOH channel, my monitors also fade out?

6. I would love to be able to make a custom fader bank per scene.
There are many different instruments in this performance, changing every scene. If I just see the 8 faders I need for every particular scene it would be very very convenient.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to read this! Hopefully some of you will be able to clarify some of my problems.

Wish you all the best!

Robert Siroen

[James Perrett]

5. Is there such a thing where I can link my channel 1 fader to the send fader?
So for instance I'm able to to send 0.00dB of channel 1 to my FOH, send -6dB of channel 1 to my on stage monitors, but when I fade out my FOH channel, my monitors also fade out?

I can't answer the DM3 specific queries but on most mixing desks stage monitors use a pre-fade send so that the monitor mix is completely independent of the FOH mix. Normally you don't want the foldback level changing when you change the FOH level. However, you should be able to easily set up a post fade send on most mixers but you may not be able to use some channels set to pre and other channels set to post fade on the same send.

[ajay_m]

I mistakenly posted here that the custom faders are per scene which is incorrect. As I initially stated, they are global.