Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:15 am
I'm not sure I'd say +10dB was a "relatively small increase in absolute SPL". TBF the DZR represents a little more than double the price for double the volume compared to the older RCF 712. In terms of name, I don't think the pro PA world is quite so badly affected as many marketplaces and RCF and Yamaha names carry similar prestige IMO.
If I was the OP I'd look at a couple of DXR10s and a matching sub* but, as S2 says, the equivalent RCF's will be equally suitable, and in that case the price and volume differences are fairly insignificant.
* But that's because I have experience of the DXRs and know them to be solid performers and loud enough for most pub gigs.
True, 10dB is quite a jump but might still be more than the OP needs? Then acoustic specifications are slippery things! Can we be sure all manufacturers are testing in exactly the same way? 139dB is extremely loud and does not, as has been said, fall off with distance by the inverse square law for such speakers.
The speakers discussed in the last few posts are 'box on stick' point source designs so inverse square law will apply (more or less) but you are right, 139dBSPL @ 1m is bl00dy loud . I have DXR 10s (131dBSPL) and they are quite loud enough for all but the loudest pub gigs hence my suggestion that they may be suitable.
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:14 am
The main thing about the Yamaha DZR's is that they go much louder than the RCF's mentioned. RCF 712's max SPL is quoted as 129dBSPL, 732 as 131dBSPL and the DZR12 is 139dBSPL. A fairer comparison for the RCFs would be Yamaha DXR12 which is about £50 cheaper than the 732 and goes 3dB louder.
I'd suggest you listen to DXR12, ART732 and DZR12 and then come back and decide if there's really as much difference as the paper figures suggest...
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:37 pm
The speakers discussed in the last few posts are 'box on stick' point source designs so inverse square law will apply (more or less) but you are right, 139dBSPL @ 1m is bl00dy loud . I have DXR 10s (131dBSPL) and they are quite loud enough for all but the loudest pub gigs hence my suggestion that they may be suitable.
Quite. I also missed the fact the peeps are chopping between column and box speakers with nary a care! Those SPL figures, are they all for the same THD point and conducted in the same anechoic room...weighted? Peak?
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:14 am
The main thing about the Yamaha DZR's is that they go much louder than the RCF's mentioned. RCF 712's max SPL is quoted as 129dBSPL, 732 as 131dBSPL and the DZR12 is 139dBSPL. A fairer comparison for the RCFs would be Yamaha DXR12 which is about £50 cheaper than the 732 and goes 3dB louder.
I'd suggest you listen to DXR12, ART732 and DZR12 and then come back and decide if there's really as much difference as the paper figures suggest...
I did several years ago, though it was DXR12, ART712, ART 722 and DSR12. As expected the more expensive 722 and DSR12 came out on top but were somewhat over budget. The DXR was better sounding than the 712 and nearly as good as the QSC K12's I actually bought. I also regularly used RCF Tour series tops (with ART 18" subs) which sounded fantastic and went very loud but were double the price of the 722s. So my assessment of the SPL and sound quality is based on si
Interestingly the JBL PRX7 series 12"s and Mackie SRM450 mk2 were nothing like as nice as the Yamahas and QSCs despite me liking the original Mackie's and PRX512s that I used on a weekly basis in the day job.
FWIW Yamaha won't own up to how they measure their speakers SPL and many manufacturers simply calculate the max SP from the 1w/m speaker efficiency and amplifier power output. And, to complicate the matter, the DXR's 1100 watts are, in Yamaha's blurb, "dynamic power" (or a made up figure).
The continuous power rating of all the DXR tops range (8" to 15") is quoted by Yamaha at 700W (600W LF and 100W HF). The peak power will be used for the maximum SPL figure. Given the 1100/700W ratio, the continuous maximum SPL should be about 2dB less, so 130dB SPL for the Mk2 DXR12.
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:16 am
I did several years ago, though it was DXR12, ART712, ART 722 and DSR12. As expected the more expensive 722 and DSR12 came out on top but were somewhat over budget. The DXR was better sounding than the 712 and nearly as good as the QSC K12's I actually bought. I also regularly used RCF Tour series tops (with ART 18" subs) which sounded fantastic and went very loud but were double the price of the 722s. So my assessment of the SPL and sound quality is based on si
It was a similar listening party that led me to get my ART 722s years ago. Really interesting to hear a whole pile of speakers side by side.
On output, it's the DZRs I call bullshit on. They're great, but I don't believe they have as much additional output as the figures suggest.
It certainly is a huge figure but listening to the DSR12 compared to the DXR12 leads me to think it may well be genuine as the other Yamaha box's specs stand scrutiny. But I haven't heard them in the flesh so who knows.
Sam Spoons wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:16 am
I did several years ago, though it was DXR12, ART712, ART 722 and DSR12. As expected the more expensive 722 and DSR12 came out on top but were somewhat over budget. The DXR was better sounding than the 712 and nearly as good as the QSC K12's I actually bought. I also regularly used RCF Tour series tops (with ART 18" subs) which sounded fantastic and went very loud but were double the price of the 722s. So my assessment of the SPL and sound quality is based on si
It was a similar listening party that led me to get my ART 722s years ago. Really interesting to hear a whole pile of speakers side by side.
On output, it's the DZRs I call bullshit on. They're great, but I don't believe they have as much additional output as the figures suggest.
Further to the BS point. If SPL is sometimes just a calculated figure based on watts and drive unit sensitivity then it should be given with a + or - tolerance of at least 2dB since that is the figure commonly quoted by 'honest' speaker manufacturers. And we ALL know that "watts" get manipulated by many "masseurs"!
But Yamaha know what watts are for calculation purposes. 950W continuous power. 2000W peak ('dynamic') for all the DZR top boxes.
The Yamaha figures are given as "Measured peak SPL with pink noise @1m", so the values aren't calculated, but I'm sure the average will be 2-3dB below that.
. I have D
