Two mics one input

[dbarach]

Im a piano teacher / performer who’s a beginner at recording, but I decided it was time to upgrade from my rode nt-1 usb mic, as it wasn’t really capturing loud vs soft dynamics in my playing that well. I bought UA VOLT 276 audio interface, which has two xlr inputs. It came with a UA condenser mic i can use for my voice (when teaching online or making instructional videos). for recording the piano, I bought a matched pair of UA pencil mics (SP-1 standard) to record the piano with.

Now i have three mics I want to use at once and my interface only has two inputs. I think I need some kind of mixer for the pencil mics? Or can I just use a splitter cable? I’m hoping not to spend a lot of money, but also quality is important.

[Drew Stephenson]

Unfortunately that interface isn't quite the right tool for the job. You could buy another mixer and mix the piano mics down to a mono signal and send that to channel two of the Volt but really you'd be as well just mic'ing the piano in mono with one mic.
I would suggest either returning the Volt and getting something with at least 4 inputs, or just recording the piano in mono.

[Arpangel]

Recording piano in mono is done a lot, it’s not a problem, it’s perfectly acceptable.
But I would sit down and think, you seem to already have ambitions above that interface, and I’m guessing you’ll outgrow it anyway, I’d get another interface with more inputs, and it shouldn’t be as expensive as a UA.

[Wonks]

Or you could buy a mixer and record the piano in stereo and pan your voice centrally. But you then need to make sure that everything balances well, and you can't process your voice with compression and reverb separately from the piano.

We don't know your style of presentation but would it be possible to add the vocal track after recording a stereo piano track?

If not, an interface with four mic inputs is really going to be required if you want good control over the recording. Otherwise, mono piano and vocal as Drew suggested.

[Arpangel]

Wonks advice about a mixer is the cheapest way out, all you need is a 6 input or similar.

[ef37a]

I am rather surprised by the OP's statement that the NT-1 is lacking in dynamic range? Never had one but they have been around quite a while and generally get a good rep?

However, I am with Arpangel and a mixer. Yes, the piano will be mono but the balance of the keyboard can be better with two mics surely? This is commonly done with acoustic guitar where the two mics are balanced for best sound post tracking but the end result is mono. In this case just get the 'left/right' balance to taste in the mixer.

He will also surely need voice panned to the centre, not possible on any AI I am aware of?

The Behringer Xenyx 1202 would be well up to the job and was very cheap about a years ago.

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's an NT1 USB Dave, 16 bit.

He will also surely need voice panned to the centre, not possible on any AI I am aware of?

Whut?

The Behringer Xenyx 1202 would be well up to the job and was very cheap about a years ago.

Or just send the interface back and get something with the right number of inputs.

[The Elf]

Do the job right; do the job once. Get an interface with the required number of inputs (and maybe a couple extra - one day you will need them).

[Sam Spoons]

The cheapest AI with four mic inputs I can find is the Berry U-Phoria UMC404HD at around £140 Berry's cheapest mixer with two mic inputs is £90. The Volt 467 with 4 mic inputs is a very reasonable £259 at Andertons. IMO this is one of those situations where doing it cheap will result in disappointment and ultimately doing it twice. I'd buy the U-Phoria but you may prefer the UA name and choose the Volt.

[ef37a]

Ooops! Missed the USB bit Drew ('king eye!). Still, surprised the Rode is not up to the job? Son has a sixty quid Citronics CCU1 USB and that does a very decent job on classical guitar. 16 bits is all you really need in a 'controlled' recording situation. Bloody sight more than we ever had with B&&**&&d tape!

The "AI mic panning" situation is one that crops up regularly on forums. I repeat, I know of no AI that can pan a single mic to two tracks in a DAW. No doubt it can be done with the software in AIs such RME but OP wants to keep costs down.

For a teaching application I would think you would want the voice in the centre. Mono piano is also ok I think but two mics might help to give an overall better balance and that can easily be setup in a mixer. Acoustic guitar is very often captured with two (often different) mics and the result mixed to mono post tracking.

The debate about "mixer v m'track AI" will rage long after I am gone I suspect but I will just say that IMHO there are few things more useful and versatile to the home recordist than a small mixer. But, if OP does go for a bigger AI, go better than the Behrry? I REALLY like the look of that MOTU M6!

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

The "AI mic panning" situation is one that crops up regularly on forums. I repeat, I know of no AI that can pan a single mic to two tracks in a DAW. No doubt it can be done with the software in AIs such RME but OP wants to keep costs down.

Why do you want to pan a single mic to two tracks in the DAW? Either create a mono track or (in Reaper for example) a mono input will automatically go equally to left and right of a stereo track. Both result in the track coming straight down the middle, there's no panning required.

[ef37a]

The "AI mic panning" situation is one that crops up regularly on forums. I repeat, I know of no AI that can pan a single mic to two tracks in a DAW. No doubt it can be done with the software in AIs such RME but OP wants to keep costs down.

Why do you want to pan a single mic to two tracks in the DAW? Either create a mono track or (in Reaper for example) a mono input will automatically go equally to left and right of a stereo track. Both result in the track coming straight down the middle, there's no panning required.

I am assuming the OP will be creating a 'stereo', two channel recording? Therefore to reproduce a phantom central voice track the single input must be sent to both channels.

Good lord! That worked first time!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

I am assuming the OP will be creating a 'stereo', two channel recording? Therefore to reproduce a phantom central voice track the single input must be sent to both channels.

Which is what most DAWs do by default when playing a mono track - just like a traditional mixing desk. Is your version of Samplitude different in this respect?

[tacitus]

Definitely a mixer is essential as no matter how many inputs you have it’s an extra tool. Pisno and voice would be pretty much the same every time (am I understanding this right that OP will be singing/playing most of the time.

A two-track recording of a stereo mix should be easy to get fairly good and it doesn’t stop you doing a voice track and piano track when that seems a better idea and you can mess about with it afterwards.

I had a Soundcraft Notepad for years that got used for this type of stuff, desktop management, party music, you name it. Eventually it blew up and I now have a handy Yamaha MG-something; 4 mics plus stereos in. It lives in the car boot with a Bluetooth receiver and has enabled several gigs when we’ve run out of inputs or a bigger mixer has failed or been left behind. So, useful in my life.

I just bought a Roland Rubix44 on the strength of USB compliance so I can get 4 tracks onto my iPad as a backup or sketchpad recorder. But then again, I have a pile of interfaces going back to my first Tascam US-122. I never throw out stuff. But there’s a choice of methods for the OP and if it were me I’d be sure I could do a mix and record it in stereo, or do a multitrack and edit it later. I imagine the situation will suggest a solution, and a modest mixer followed by an interface with more tracks would yield a flexible toolkit.

[ef37a]

I agree Tacitus. Where there is a need to record a situation that will not change and that will be 'delivered' in a stereo format, it seems to me easier and more cost effective to use a small mixer and a 2 mic/line interface to balance 3 or 4 microphones. Also a mixer allows other line sources, an example track from a phone say, to be inserted.

Even more flexibility can be gained using a 2 mic input AI with 2 more rear line inputs for a mixer and they are still reasonably priced. Excellent examples I have used are the Native Instruments KA6 and the MOTU M4. I dare say the Behringer UMC 404HD is 'ok' as well!

Dave.

[dbarach]

When you talk about a mixer followed by an AI, I’m a little confused. It seems like many of the posts say return the UA I bought. Are you saying it’s also an option to keep it and plug a mixer in to the interface and still get stereo sound from that mixer?

In related news, if I do return it, I have to return the mic it came with, so I’m now in the market for a cheap mic I can use for voice that won’t pick up the piano behind it (there’s some singing and playing but I’m predominantly a classical pianist)

[Wonks]

There are often multiple options, a lot of them depending on how you work. Here, we have three.

1.You could use a small mixer to mix down to a stereo output (piano mics panned left and right, vocal panned centre), and then record the stereo output via the AI. A mixer with built-in reverb will work well on voice (if used sparingly).

2. You can record a mono guitar and a mono vocal.

3. You can get a different AI and record the piano in stereo and the vocal in mono.

If you record to a DAW, then mix and add to the video, then all of them are valid.

If you are live streaming, then you want something you don't have to process any further, so you need a mix that produces a stereo stream. A podcasting AI or a mixer with a USB output might then be a better choice.

If you are recording direct to a video recorder, be it a camera or a phone, then using a mixer to provide a stereo feed into the camera works well in terms of having no sync issues.

So a lot comes down to exactly how you are going about creating your content. If you are going through a video editing process then you are likely to get best results from getting an AI with 4 inputs.

So it will help if you can explain just how you want to go about creating your videos.

[Drew Stephenson]

Fundamentally you have a two-input device. So you can either take two mono inputs (i.e. one piano mic, one vocal mic) or you could buy a mixer to take multiple inputs and mix them down to a stereo signal and then route that into your current device.

The pros of buying a small mixer is that it's a relatively cheap way of adding the extra channels, and having a spare mixer around may prove useful in lots of ways in the future if you get more involved in the pastime.

The cons are that you are committing all your recording options before you reach the DAW. Whatever the balance you get out of your mixer is going to be recorded and you won't subsequently be able to rebalance, for example, the vocal and the piano. Nor will you be able to process those channels separately.

If you bought a different interface with 4 inputs then you could record your stereo piano and a vocal track to your DAW and retain the ability to mix, process and rebalance things after recording.

Dave makes a good point about the ability to add a phone or computer as another source, I don't know if remote lessons factors into your plans but if so it might be worth considering a podcast-type interface (like a Rodecaster) which has multiple mic inputs and also phone and USB inputs.

I'm going to disagree with him on the 2mic+2line interface suggestion though as you'd need to get both a new interface and a mixer and I reckon that's just overcomplicating things for no significant benefit.

As to microphones, what they pick up or reject is down to their polar pattern. A cardiod pattern is sensitive at the front and least sensitive at the rear, which sounds like what you want and is also, conveniently, the mostly commonly available kind. As such there are a huge range of options so without an idea of budget and what else you might use it for it's hard to recommend.
Other things to bear in mind: 1) a cardiod mic is always going to pick up some sounds from the side and rear, cheaper mics tend to be less forgiving of off-axis sounds and can introduce unpleasant tonality. 2) The sound of your room will have a significant effect too, this will also dictate how you choose to use your microphones. If it's a lovely sounding acoustic then you'll probably make different choices than if it's a small box room with no soft furnishings. 3) following on from those, how good the room sounds and how much piano you're willing to tolerate will also affect your choice of vocal microphone.

[EDIT slight cross over with Wonks but we're covering much the same ground]

[ef37a]

"I'm going to disagree with him on the 2mic+2line interface suggestion though as you'd need to get both a new interface and a mixer and I reckon that's just overcomplicating things for no significant benefit."

I mentioned that just FYI but should the OP decide to get a mixer to use with the existing 2 input AI he might consider an upgrade to such an interface in the future which would then give him an extra 2 mic inputs and 4 discrete tracks.

But as Wonks says, we do not have much of an idea of the chap's actual M.O. (does he?) and there are many ways to case this particular moggie...On that is not mentioned so far is a 'hand held' recorder. My son uses a Tascam Pro 40X to good effect with his trio. (and a bloody mixer so there!)

Dave.

[dbarach]

Thanks for responding everyone! Here’s some information you were asking about:

My most important use case is being able to make YouTubes and recordings with high quality piano sound and no vocals. I can already di this with existing equipment. For this, I have a laptop with webcam, but it’s nice when also possible to plug in AI directly to iPhone or iPad.

That said, I do also teach online via Skype, and would love higher quality audio for that. And that requires three mics. Though its possible but perhaps not ideal to only do stereo piano for the higher quality recordings, and then maybe mono for teaching.

I also plan to make pre-recorded course content which will involve being able to talk and play in high quality, and that would be quite nice to have stereo piano plus mono vocal without having to do all talking and playing in separate takes.

I do occasionally sing and play, especially in lessons where I may be teaching pop and rock and jazz (Ie singing and playing), even though as a performer I’m pretty focused on classical music not involving vocals. But overall, the piano sound is much more important than the vocal sound quality. Cheaper is better for mics, but I do need it to be clear enough to teach with. I don’t really wanna spend more than $100 on the vocal mic, and less is even better, but I’ll also do what I have to! Someone elsewhere mentioned the mxl v67g as a good option, so I was thinking of that maybe, but interested in more opinions of course.

My current recording environment is a grand piano in a one bedroom apartment with wood floors.

Given all that info, what would be my best bet?

[ef37a]

These are just my personal thoughts Dbarach and those with vastly more knowledge than I will surely challenge them!

"Stereo" piano. IMHO no, you will not be able to get a stereo pair far enough away to give the stereo image a sensible size. Probably better to get a good balance across the keyboard in mono, i.e. L+R phantom image.

Vocal mic for Skype. Consider a headset. I use one when I talk to my son in France. £20 and I think the audio quality is very acceptable, at least there is very little 'room effect' in it! A head set is all but out of shot and your level does not change as you move about. My son uses the Citronics USB mic I referred to earlier and if he needs to demonstrate something it picks up his classical guitar very well. Even his Strat, unplugged is easily audible. You will I am sure need to hear what your students are doing? A strategically placed mic, usb or nay, should allow voice and piano from their end.
Neither will be of the best quality but then it is your end you want to get right!

I cannot recall who mentioned it but it might be as well to look at some SoS back reviews of "Rhodecaster" type interfaces? Pricey but might in the end save you a lot of time and faff?

I am also pretty sure my son has recorded USB mic and two tracks from his MOTU M4 with MME drivers. I don't think he has tried it with Reaper but I have sent him an email to find out. Don't hold breath, you may know what kids are like for communication! (he is 51)

Kevlar hat on.

Dave.

[Arpangel]

The cheapest AI with four mic inputs I can find is the Berry U-Phoria UMC404HD at around £140 Berry's cheapest mixer with two mic inputs is £90. The Volt 467 with 4 mic inputs is a very reasonable £259 at Andertons. IMO this is one of those situations where doing it cheap will result in disappointment and ultimately doing it twice. I'd buy the U-Phoria but you may prefer the UA name and choose the Volt.

This is crazy, for less than the price of that small UA, he could get an 8 input Behringer 1820

[Drew Stephenson]

This is crazy, for less than the price of that small UA, he could get an 8 input Behringer 1820

But is that what the OP actually needs? I'm not sure it is.

[ef37a]

This is crazy, for less than the price of that small UA, he could get an 8 input Behringer 1820

But is that what the OP actually needs? I'm not sure it is.

My thought exactly. 8 mics is a vast overkill but to be fair to Arp' he, like me was just pointing out the options?
The bottom line is that any interface/mixer/mic combination is likely to give the chap all the "quality" he needs. Even a $25 dynamic, used properly will give very acceptable speech quality and we really no longer need to worry much about electronics, analogue or digital. His biggest problems are going to be 'operational', acoustic (room will sound bad unless treated) and possibly ambient noises.

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

If the vocal is really a secondary requirement, and only for lessons via Skype / Zoom then actually the OP might have everything they need.
Using a programme like OBS to control the feeds and routing you might be able to use the Rode NT1 for vocals and the Volt for the piano.
I've not really played around much with OBS though so I could be wrong on how it controls inputs. If Mike S is reading he may be able to chip in?