90's drum machines

[jj pep]

Planning to buy a drum machine soon. I've never had one before and have given myself a fairly limited budget of 150euro. I'm not really a fan of the sounds of volca beats or the Behringer Rd 6 so I started looking at second hand. For my limited budget (and the kind of sounds I like) it seems that something from the 90's or even late 80's are my options. On Reverb I see a few different Yamaha and Roland models. I also see things like auto arrangers which while not dedicated drum machines, seem to be able to do the job. I'd love more than just stereo outs but I realise that is a stretch at this price point. Does anyone have any particular models that they'd recommend or advise to avoid?

[The Elf]

You're dealing with a time (and a price point) when drum machines were sample players with limited memory. There are plenty of free and paid packs of drum machine samples out there, so it would be simple to grab a few of these and see which sounds you like. If you find something that speaks to you, and you really want to experience the real thing, then you could hunt one of those machines down.

But quite honestly, for that price I would just use the samples in my DAW and thank my lucky stars I didn't *have* to use one of those annoying old machines...

[Wonks]

If you want a 90s drum machine, get a new or used Alesis SR16. Brought out in 1990 and still going strong.

You get the bonus of an extra stereo pair of outputs, in addition to the main stereo pair, so if you want to assign the snare to one and the kick to another, then edit the pads so the output goes to the aux pair and pan one hard left and the other hard right.

Definitely not the best drum machine of the 90s, but it's affordable and it must be doing something right to still be made after 32 years.

FYI, the Alesis performance pad (discontinued) was the guts of an SR16 bolted on to 8 playable pads. I have one, but it took me several goes before I got one where hitting a pad didn't trigger an adjacent pad. So if you are interested in hitting things, or playing pads to enter patterns, then it offers the standard drum machine functions and sounds, plus a bit extra. But I took several back and then went through more of the stock in the shop before finding a reliable one, so beware!

[atarirob]

Elf is right - unfortunately, most drum machines of that period are ROMplers of the most flavourless variety. Even the tastiest 90's drum machines like the Yamaha RY30 or Roland R8 (1989 - yeah, yeah) are ROMplers through and through, albeit with some nice sequencers and modulation options.

It honestly depends what kind of music you're wanting to make with them. The RY30 and R8 are beasts and can occasionally be found for around ~£150-200, so a little out of your price range but well worth the money if you're really pining after that 90's sound and user interface.

Another option to consider would be the Boss DR-5 and DR-660. I have used both and they have excellent sounds similar to the R8. The DR-5 also doubles as a 4-track MIDI sequencer, which means it has the potential to be the centerpiece of a hardware setup. These can be found sometimes as low as £50 if you look hard enough.

Although, with all this being said - they're still ROMplers, and if it's just the sounds you're after then I'd say your best bet is to do as Elf said and download some samples (you can find a download to the R8 + all of it's expansion card sounds on Google in WAV format) and load them into whatever your sampler of choice is. Something like Redux by Renoise will be able to go lightyears beyond what the R8 was capable of in terms of sample manipulation and modulation. If you were planning on forgoing the internal sequencer and sequencing the drum machine with a DAW or external sequencer anyway, then there really is little point in owning one physically in all honestly.

Plus, it must be said that 90's ROMpler drum machines are agonising to get anything resembling a decent workflow going - with the computer sampler option you can skip this extra-musical busywork and the absolute misery that is deciphering 90's-era Roland/Yamaha manuals!...but they do look cool, eh?

Best of luck!

[nathanscribe]

I'll play against Elf here and say there's a lot of fun to be had with hardware drum machines, it all depends on how you like to work.

If you don't like the Volca Beats or RD-6, you might prefer something digital. The Alesis SR-16 is perennial, though I've not used one myself. Plenty of demos online though, not least the Bad Gear episode on YouTube. The Yamaha RY-30 is quite flexible, with basic synthesis options for working with its samples. Not sure how much they fetch these days. There are also rack modules and ROMplers with drum banks, some of which can be quite satisfying. Some (such as the old Roland U series or Akai XE8) have multiple outputs so you could assign various drums across them and process them differently live and on the fly. Many of the cheaper units are stereo only.

[Zukan]

There are lots of fun and interesting drum machines out there...even 'vintage' and used. Some love the Alesis SR/HR, some like the Roland R8, some swear by the Electribes, some prefer analogue driven drum machines but they might cost a lung or two...others love sampler like the Akai MPC series and so on.... The only advice I can give is avoid Reverb unless you want to pay ludicrous rates for meh gear.

[jj pep]

Thanks for the replies. Should have mentioned that I'm working completely dawless. I work in IT and would rather not involve a pc if only for a change of scenery from the day job!

Reverb can be hit and miss. Have got lucky there over the years. Find it much of a muchness with eBay etc.

[ajay_m]

I totally concur with this - sure, it's easy to find endless sample libraries but actually then stringing together drum patterns in a DAW is quite fiddly compared to just tapping a few buttons on a drum machine. I too work with computers all day and very much prefer making music without picking up a mouse - I don't mind interacting with dedicated hardware though, which is why I got an Akai Force and the step sequencer on that is great fun, but Akai's audience isn't me, so although it's bristling with drum samples they're all hippety hoppety clanks, grinds and the sort of noises an escalator might make if someone's high-heeled shoe got stuck in it. Hence I'm feeding midi out to a Roland Sonic Cell which *does* have the sounds I think the OP is thinking of, but doesn't have a sequencer.
By the standards of modern DAW sample sets of course those Roland samples are primitive but Roland knew how to make stuff that just sits in a mix and so when you're just putting together a sketch they work perfectly well.
Why therefore we are stuck in some weird timewarp where the approximations of the early drum machines like the TR808 are now fetishised, I don't know, whereas the perfectly good and serviceable late generation drum machines that actually strove to produce actual drum sounds are now marginalised, I have no idea, but if a manufacturer cares to build a low-cost device that actually does produce proper drum sounds, I think there are a fair few people who would like one.

[Wonks]

I'll also mention the 1992 Yamaha RY10 as I had one (and maybe still have somewhere).

The drum sounds are definitely better than the SR16 (IMO) and it was reasonably easy to program. Not as intuitive as some of the Boss units, but not too hard.

Plus, you cold also program bass lines on it as well. The bass sounds themselves were a bit 'meh' and you wouldn't really want them on a track without significant tone mangling, but for playing along to with a guitar, it was fine.

It even has a tiny built-in speaker and can run on 6x AA batteries so you can even use it as a portable metronome!

[James Perrett]

While the SR16 is a perfectly good drum machine, I find it very hard to get those Alesis sounds to sit in a mix and not sound like a drum machine. I also find it far harder to program a drum machine than I do to create something in a DAW. We had the HR16 and MMT8 combination when we first started our studio back in 1989 but the MMT8 was rapidly replaced by a computer and the HR16 was just used as a sound module - it made life so much easier.

[Arpangel]

I had a R8, a Yamaha TX802, all controlled by an Alesis MMT8, I’ve never been able to find anything as good, ever.

[muzines]

I had a R8, a Yamaha TX802, all controlled by an Alesis MMT8, I’ve never been able to find anything as good, ever.

I had an MMT8 before I moved to the Atari ST, and while it was cool, it was nothing compared to a decent software-based sequencer. I wouldn't go back. In fact, when I started to get decent sequencers, I moved entirely away from drum machine-style pattern-chaining, to programming the drum parts directly into the sequencer, and never looked back either.

[FrankF]

The UNO DRUM is magnificent: lotsa kits, patterns, and realtime tweaky things. I hit play and I'm inspired.
I keep meaning to buy a second one, as they're quite cheap over here 2nd hand. Probably within your budget.
The I/O is a bit rubbish (i.e. minijack), and I'm still hoping that IK do a "pro" version like they did with the UNO synth...

The Yamaha DJX (can be had for pennies) also has some wonderful drum patterns built in, and the dozen or so kits are great too.

I still have my RY30, and the pads still work after 31 years, look you.
It's a bugger to programme, but that ribbon controller, sorry, thumb-wheel, makes it very "real-time".
I fink it freeky and I like it a lot.

[jj pep]

So I'm circling around either an Alesis Sr 16 or a Yamaha RX 11. Like the sounds of both with maybe the Alesis being a touch ahead. Going to listen to each of them a bit more over the next few days or so and maybe pull the trigger on one of them next week

[Arpangel]

I had a R8, a Yamaha TX802, all controlled by an Alesis MMT8, I’ve never been able to find anything as good, ever.

I had an MMT8 before I moved to the Atari ST, and while it was cool, it was nothing compared to a decent software-based sequencer. I wouldn't go back. In fact, when I started to get decent sequencers, I moved entirely away from drum machine-style pattern-chaining, to programming the drum parts directly into the sequencer, and never looked back either.

I don’t even know what you’re talking about "pattern chaining" means nothing to me, I just used to work in loops, with high output channel machines, fed into a mixer with faders.

[muzines]

I don’t even know what you’re talking about "pattern chaining" means nothing to me

Drum machines are pattern-based devices. You make a pattern for the basic beat. You make another pattern with a variation (say a fill), you make a third pattern for your chorus where the drums get busier, and you chain together those patterns into a song. (That's why they generally had Pattern mode, and Song modes).

The MMT8 is also a pattern based sequencer, as most digital sequencers were around that time - you start with a single pattern, and build up your first bit of the music - say, your verse in a traditional song form. When you want to go to a new section (say, you're done with the verse, and want to move on to the chorus of your song), you create a new pattern, and fill in those chords/backing etc, and you chain those patterns to create a song.

(Generally, on these earlier devices, you couldn't do a whole song in a single pattern. Drum patterns were usually 1 or 2 bars, the MMT8's patterns were I think 99 bars (or maybe 384 beats) max - although it's been a looong time since I used to work with that, so memory is fuzzy).

Of course, there are people who can loop a single bar or 2-bar pattern for an entire piece, just like people can make music with no chord changes. Either way, you're still working with patterns, as those are pattern based devices - even if you're just working with one simple pattern and don't require those notes to ever change during the piece.

The point I was making was that for me, after ten years of programming drum machines in 1 or 2-bar patterns, I moved to working on the entire song, recording more performances across the whole song and editing them, rather than building up from small pattern pieces. This was to me a preferable way of working.

[Arpangel]

The way I achieved variation, was using multi-output modules, and muting/fading through a mixer, all the other ways of using drum machines were, and still are a mystery to me, as you say, it’s what’s preferable to us.

[muzines]

The way I achieved variation, was using multi-output modules, and muting/fading through a mixer, all the other ways of using drum machines were, and still are a mystery to me, as you say, it’s what’s preferable to us.

Sure - I was describing *my* use and experience, not saying the same is true for others. I was mostly interested in learning how to "music", what a song was, why it worked, how arrangements were built and varied over time, how to replicate songs I admired and find out why they were good, what various drum patterns were and how they affected feel, and how to play drums etc etc. In those days, with early (particularly budget) electronic gear, we were mostly forced into a pattern-based arrangement approach somewhat (depending on your needs and gear etc).

That was fine, but when I starting to move up to gear where I didn't have to construct, eg, drum tracks by piecing together 1-bar patterns, and much larger memories, I was freed from that pattern-based approach and I found it much more flexible and far preferable. Which was the point I was making about the benefits of moving on from those pattern-based early drum machines...

[tea for two]

Wooot no Bobby McFerrin.
Wooot no Beatboxing.

From Police Academy lol.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6OKt2CZ4U ... 5lcw%3D%3D

::

Check oooot deep Kick n Bass on this modern song.
I was in Rough Trade last thursday evening. They were playing loud over their speakers modern RnB, Soul, songs which had various flavas of Kicks Basses.
This stood out just Deeeep Kick n Bass.

Dinner Party : from my Heart and my Soul.
The musicians singers are 4 modern Jazz and HipHop luminaries.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EL185N79Y ... c291bCA%3D

I adore Deep Heeeveee Kicks Bass.
I don't dig overly hard nor thin Kicks as they hurt my ears.
With this song the thin shrill Hats Snare programmed hurts my ears. Also the Hats Snare are mixed far too prominently.
Keeping deep programmed Kick, the rest a drummer on an acoustic kit grooving the hats snare : for me this would be an ideal for this song.

::

To the OP
RX11 has that mid to late 80s flava on various pop dance hits of that time.
So i'd say if that's the vibe you dig then RX11.
There's free samples of RX11 online, preehaps auditioning, they maybe decent enough for your requirements to save your pennies.

Beatmaker on iphone ipad worth investigating on utube. It's even got a sampler.