Listening as a creative experience

[BWC]

I'm frequently frustrated by people insisting that I said something that I did not say, because in looking for the meaning behind they were actually adding something that wasn't meant, sometimes even assuming that I meant the opposite of what I said, when I really didn't.

[Arpangel]

I'm frequently frustrated by people insisting that I said something that I did not say, because in looking for the meaning behind they were actually adding something that wasn't meant, sometimes even assuming that I meant the opposite of what I said, when I really didn't.

It’s difficult to know what others are trying to say in a band improv situation, we can only respond and hope for the best, the thrill is hearing what comes next, in my case it’s ranged from bland boring noodling, to wanting to rip the guitar out of his hands and stuff it down his throat.

[BWC]

I'm frequently frustrated by people insisting that I said something that I did not say, because in looking for the meaning behind they were actually adding something that wasn't meant, sometimes even assuming that I meant the opposite of what I said, when I really didn't.

It’s difficult to know what others are trying to say in a band improv situation, we can only respond and hope for the best, the thrill is hearing what comes next, in my case it’s ranged from bland boring noodling, to wanting to rip the guitar out of his hands and stuff it down his throat.

I was referring to the other languages. Musically, I find these things much easier, actually.

[Arpangel]

I'm frequently frustrated by people insisting that I said something that I did not say, because in looking for the meaning behind they were actually adding something that wasn't meant, sometimes even assuming that I meant the opposite of what I said, when I really didn't.

It’s difficult to know what others are trying to say in a band improv situation, we can only respond and hope for the best, the thrill is hearing what comes next, in my case it’s ranged from bland boring noodling, to wanting to rip the guitar out of his hands and stuff it down his throat.

I was referring to the other languages. Musically, I find these things much easier, actually.

OK, yes, thinking the exact opposite of what I really meant, people tend to do that a lot with me, maybe I’m not so good at being clear in print.

[tea for two]

I’ve read interviews with more than one person, where they say they never listen to their own finished music.
It’s almost like the conception is all, the actual process of creating is more important than the finished music, the journey is more important than the destination.

........I don't care to recall journeys. It is all about the destination for me nowadays. ..............

Are you going to have that inscribed on your headstone?

Something like : "That ended well didn't it."

[Sam Spoons]

Hard to beat "I told you I was ill" for an epitaph

[tea for two]

Hard to beat "I told you I was ill" for an epitaph

classic Spike.

[OneWorld]

Hard to beat "I told you I was ill" for an epitaph

classic Spike.

Except for the wit that observed "Yep and guess why we never listened"

[Arpangel]

My headstone?

.
"Can’t say it was worth the bother"

[tea for two]

The other day I was listening to Hideaki Ishi aka DJ Krush's album Zen. Zuke as producer mixer worked with DJ Krush.
The first piece on Zen album is a sublime Flute Vibraphone piece with lofi beat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bj3y5vFS3 ... bmcgMSA%3D
Sampled from Paul Horn : Dusk starting at 6min49sec.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ciXhHRRFP ... IGR1c2s%3D

As it happens the 2nd piece on my almost completed beats edm album is a Flute piece.
Paul Horn's, DJ Krush's is miles better than mine anybody can hear that straightaway yet their Flute piece doesn't mean much to me except that I dig it.
Whereas my crummy Flute piece means something to me, I been listening to it on repeat.

No matter how severely limited I am in my music making, no matter how awful my music may sound, only my music expresses for me what I want to express, only my music means to me what it means to me.
It wasn't always this way.
I was nearly all my life until start of lockdown still looking at others music for things music brings to me.
The one thing I still receive from others is their sincere singing voice.

[Arpangel]

No matter how severely limited I am in my music making, no matter how awful my music may sound, only my music expresses for me what I want to express, only my music means to me what it means to me.
It wasn't always this way.
I was nearly all my life until start of lockdown still looking at others music for things music brings to me.

This is interesting, as I’ve never felt that I’ve been successful in expressing what I want to say at all, and when I listen to my music it’s a pure stroke of luck if it moves me in any way, also, I leave interpretation up to the listener, to read into it what they want.

[tea for two]

No matter how severely limited I am in my music making, no matter how awful my music may sound, only my music expresses for me what I want to express, only my music means to me what it means to me.
It wasn't always this way.
I was nearly all my life until start of lockdown still looking at others music for things music brings to me.

This is interesting, as I’ve never felt that I’ve been successful in expressing what I want to say at all,
and when I listen to my music it’s a pure stroke of luck if it moves me in any way, also, I leave interpretation up to the listener, to read into it what they want.

It helps I have low expectations from myself so my music that does for me what it does is set at a low bar.
There's differing expressions in different music that appears through my fingers.
A title as "So many kept going so many didn't make it" has different expression to a title as "Flappy trousers."
Each does for me what I want it to do : whether they do anything for anybody else well they won't get to hear it thank heavens they say lol as I keep them mostly to myself.

[Arpangel]

whether they do anything for anybody else well they won't get to hear it thank heavens they say lol as I keep them mostly to myself.

I used to think self-deprecation was a virtue, but no more, it just shows a lack of self confidence, which so often betrays what really think, that were no good at what we do.
If you don’t think you’re any good no one else will, and your opinion and presentation is just as important as your work.

[tea for two]

whether they do anything for anybody else well they won't get to hear it thank heavens they say lol as I keep them mostly to myself.

I used to think self-deprecation was a virtue, but no more, it just shows a lack of self confidence, which so often betrays what really think, that were no good at what we do.
If you don’t think you’re any good no one else will, and your opinion and presentation is just as important as your work.

I wrote earlier only my music does for me what it does. This means to me my music means more to me than any famouse composers music in history. By keeping my music mostly to myself it remains between me and the Origin where it originated from : this to me is the most sincere form of listening for my music.

Zero to do with self confidence, zero to with presentation. Remember that thread I made : Self Belief in the music we make.
As an example in SoS SoundFest I played couple of my EDM pieces on some massive PMC and Genelec monitors loud with others present in the room, they sounded bloomin marvelous. I would gladly play them in a Dance Festival to thousands.

[OneWorld]

Could someone explain exactly what is created that is exclusively as a result of listening?

I can understand it might inspire, but what exactly does it create?

[Arpangel]

Could someone explain exactly what is created that is exclusively as a result of listening?

I can understand it might inspire, but what exactly does it create?

It "creates" an environment that is conducive to things "working" on a musical level, hopefully.

[OneWorld]

Could someone explain exactly what is created that is exclusively as a result of listening?

I can understand it might inspire, but what exactly does it create?

It "creates" an environment that is conducive to things "working" on a musical level, hopefully.

That's not exclusive to listening though, and in fact the environment might already exist and a piece of music is chosen to compliment that event. It is often music music to suit the occasion, so we play the Funeral March at a funeral and not Knees Up Mother Brown. Additionally, playing music could equally be conducive to creating an environment, it isn't a unique quality exclusive to listening. Same difference.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › english › create
CREATE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
verb uk / kriˈeɪt / us / kriˈeɪt / create verb (MAKE) Add to word list B1 [ T ] to make something new, or invent something: Charles Schulz created the characters "Snoopy" and "Charlie Brown ".

[Arpangel]

Could someone explain exactly what is created that is exclusively as a result of listening?

I can understand it might inspire, but what exactly does it create?

It "creates" an environment that is conducive to things "working" on a musical level, hopefully.

That's not exclusive to listening though, and in fact the environment might already exist and a piece of music is chosen to compliment that event. It is often music music to suit the occasion, so we play the Funeral March at a funeral and not Knees Up Mother Brown. Additionally, playing music could equally be conducive to creating an environment, it isn't a unique quality exclusive to listening. Same difference.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › english › create
CREATE | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
verb uk / kriˈeɪt / us / kriˈeɪt / create verb (MAKE) Add to word list B1 [ T ] to make something new, or invent something: Charles Schulz created the characters "Snoopy" and "Charlie Brown ".

Listening is an essential part of creating music in a group situation, primarily.
I’m talking about creating music, not listening to a finished product.

[adrian_k]

It's an interesting subject. My humble and possibly controversial take on this is that music doesn't exist unless it is heard, otherwise it's just pressure waves in air. It's created in the mind of the listener, who responds in their own unique way, making each occurrence of organised (maybe intentional is a better word) sound and listener a different experience, however subtle that difference is. It doesn't exist "out there" in the world at all, we create the experience internally, and can change the experience depending on how we listen. When someone creates what we call a piece of music, they are recording (sonically or on a score) their own experience of organising sound waves.

Long before the elements of music could be recorded, it was an entirely social experience. People then would possibly have thought of music as something you did, not something that existed as a thing outside of themselves. Maybe this is why free improv can be so wonderful to take part in, but it does require a certain amount of letting go, and of course listening. There can be moments of communication (destructive as well as constructive) and communion, I think it's all about how we relate to each other (or not).

Christopher Small goes even further and says the concept of music includes the audience, the ticket seller, the room, anything that might contribute to the human experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Small

[OneWorld]

It's an interesting subject. My humble and possibly controversial take on this is that music doesn't exist unless it is heard, otherwise it's just pressure waves in air. It's created in the mind of the listener, who responds in their own unique way, making each occurrence of organised (maybe intentional is a better word) sound and listener a different experience, however subtle that difference is. It doesn't exist "out there" in the world at all, we create the experience internally, and can change the experience depending on how we listen. When someone creates what we call a piece of music, they are recording (sonically or on a score) their own experience of organising sound waves.

Long before the elements of music could be recorded, it was an entirely social experience. People then would possibly have thought of music as something you did, not something that existed as a thing outside of themselves. Maybe this is why free improv can be so wonderful to take part in, but it does require a certain amount of letting go, and of course listening. There can be moments of communication (destructive as well as constructive) and communion, I think it's all about how we relate to each other (or not).

Christopher Small goes even further and says the concept of music includes the audience, the ticket seller, the room, anything that might contribute to the human experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Small

I'm sorry but a lot of what you say is the equivalent of saying the sky is up......."music doesn't exist unless it is heard" An over simplification, you're basically saying food isn't food unless it's eaten and extrapolating further "music doesn't exist unless it is heard" inside a concert hall there is a deaf person and a hearing person and a musician playing some music (or to be anal about it, the musician is making a noise which is universally acknowledged as satisfying the requirements that define what is described as music)

So, the deaf person cannot hear the music, does that mean there is no music being played?

"Christopher Small goes even further and says the concept of music includes the audience, the ticket seller, the room, anything that might contribute to the human experience."

Christopher Small, when talking about the ticket seller for example, is talking about the music industry, ticket selling is a manifestation created by the business community, not the music making community, ticket selling happens to be a peripheral activity, ticket selling is not a crucial component of music making, music making is an activity that can be enjoyed by an individual or a billion+ listeners on YouTube or where ever.

"Long before the elements of music could be recorded, it was an entirely social experience" Nope, music can be a solitary activity, music does not need to have an audience or other participants, such as sound engineers, lighting rig worker, merch sellers etc etc etc - they are supernumary, a community which exists solely to monetize the activity or make it more accessible to a wider audience. But music, when being created, is usually solitary activity (unless there are co-writers) and that's extactly what I'm going to do now, have a twang on my guitar and hope I don't become anti-social and wake the missus up and intrude upon her slumber - then I'd be creating the equivalent of WW3

[adrian_k]

OK well it was just a thought, not trying to change anyone's mind. But there is one thing I would clarify from my perspective:

(lines deleted) An over simplification, you're basically saying food isn't food unless it's eaten

No I'm not saying that (but that is somehow what you experienced). If I had a thought about food compared to music it would be something like: Music doesn't exist outside of the mind of an entity that is processing sound which has been organised in a particular way. Food does exist outside of the mind, just like sound waves in air. Pushing analogies here but maybe I could say eating food results in something in the mind of the eater, like nourishment or something. Hmmm, I'll think about this some more....

[edit] ... probably while listening to some organised sound waves and eating cake

[Arpangel]

I get the feeling this thread is lost in a labyrinthine backroad we had no intention of going down.
I don’t know what the issue is, listening when playing is just a tool, that’s all it is, it’s got nothing to do with theories about what music is or isn’t etc.

[adrian_k]

Apologies, I guess one person’s backroad is another’s way home. Nuff said!

[Arpangel]

Apologies, I guess one person’s backroad is another’s way home. Nuff said!

I’m not sure where "home" is, musically.

[tea for two]

When I’m playing or recording music I’m not actually enjoying myself, I can only describe my feelings as like a healing, or cleansing of some kind, and it’s not a pleasant one, it’s like a definite spiritual experience, beyond anything else, for me.

A healing cleansing as this that you experience should heal cleanse you of past trauma at least for the duration of making the music. Heal cleanse you of your attachment to things and persons, heal cleanse you of personal attributes that hinder you : at least for the duration of making the music. Such that because of this healing cleansing you become more aware of being a part of an aspect of our Origin.

So you don't need to seek anything else from this music, no emotion nothing else. You were already gifted healing cleansing.

when I listen to my music it’s a pure stroke of luck if it moves me in any way

Were you personally to seek anything else outside of this healing cleansing, such as emotion to move you from the music made thru you then you would have done a disservice for the reason this music does this healing cleansing for you.

::

Creation of existence of sincere music primary purpose is to help us realise we are a part of an aspect of our Origin.
Sincere music from where it originates our Origin is not separate from our self. Sincere music occurs within the totality of our Origin, travelling through our brain our fingers mouth since we exist inside of our Origin like cells exist inside our body.

Everything exists inside of our Origin. Including sciences, engineering, programming languages, mathematics, tech, inventions, architecture, music gear, so forth.