How do I use multiple sources of the same audio when video editing?

[S.Crow]

I’m starting my first ever video project and will be using one or two video cameras alongside two standalone audio recorders.
The intention of using the two audio recorders is for redundancy and for quality.
Good audio quality should be much easier to achieve than with the phones that I am currently using for the video and I already have the recorders anyway and external mics.

The first thing that comes to mind is this:
Check the quality of the two external audio sources and go with the one I prefer.
So I will also be ditching the audio from the video source(s).

It dawns on me though that if the audio recording I choose to use has issues in a few places, it might be time consuming to replace it with audio from one of the other sources.
So ideally, it would be useful to have all 3 or 4 audio sources aligned in the video editor as separate stereo tracks, which would then make it easier to use one of the secondary audio sources if there is an issue with the main one.

Is that overkill or even doable?
I haven’t chosen a video editor yet, so I’m wondering if some are better for handling multi-track audio?
I’m using Windows 10 but being cross platform would be an advantage, as if I want to work on a laptop at some point, the Apple laptop hardware is appealing.

I’m currently looking at these editors.

DaVinci Resolve or Resolve Studio
Vegas Pro (Windows only)

I’d appreciate any input as I’m completely new to video editing so assume I know nothing.

Thanks
SC

[Drew Stephenson]

The first thing that comes to mind is this:
Check the quality of the two external audio sources and go with the one I prefer.
So I will also be ditching the audio from the video source(s).

Agree, pick a primary source and only go to the secondary if you need to.

It dawns on me though that if the audio recording I choose to use has issues in a few places, it might be time consuming to replace it with audio from one of the other sources.

Actually it's generally not that tricky. See below.

So ideally, it would be useful to have all 3 or 4 audio sources aligned in the video editor as separate stereo tracks, which would then make it easier to use one of the secondary audio sources if there is an issue with the main one.

Most video editors will allow you to load up multiple audio and video layers. You can then find a few nice transients to line everything up (some stretching may be required depending on a number of variables).
The video tracks will generally show the audio waveform as well so lining them up against the same transients is easy.
On that note, it's always worth setting the camera audio up correctly as well so a) you've got those nice transients, and b) you've got further redundancy in case someone forgets to hit record on the audio recorder.

I’m currently looking at these editors.

DaVinci Resolve or Resolve Studio
Vegas Pro (Windows only)

Resolve is pretty much all-singing, all dancing and the free version will do everything except handle the ultra-hi res stuff as far as I recall.
But it can be very resource hungry.
My last machine wouldn't run it at all so I started using Shotcut, which is much more basic but does everything I need.

[Kwackman]

If you're using several audio recordings of the same event, a clap on all tracks (audio and video) might be well worth doing. It's old school and might not be needed, but it's free and and can be a lifesaver if timecode issues arise.

[MarkOne]

Also worth adding a sync transient (It's why clapboards were invented) but as long as you clap your hands in view of the cameras and all recorders pick it up the initial sync process becomes that much easier

Simultaneous post with Kwackman!

[James Perrett]

If you are used to audio DAWs then you will probably find that Vegas works in a very similar way - after all, it started life as an audio DAW but the video side rapidly expanded. I've played around with Resolve, Shotcut and a few other budget editors but I've never felt that comfortable with them.

Reaper also works as a video editor if you have reasonably simple needs. The only thing is that you need to install FFMPEG as well if you want the best video renders. I find that it is easy to sync up audio from different sources in Reaper by lining them up at the start and then using the play rate setting in the Item Properties dialog to get the end to match.

[Nazard]

I use Resolve for all my video now, uni and personal, but it isn't software you can just download and start using straightaway, there's a learning curve, like DAWs. But the online free training is excellent.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... e/training

Puget systems, in the USA, publish articles about software/hardware on PCs, so this may be useful:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/all-articl ... ci-resolve

My PC is an AMD CPU with 12 cores, 64Gb RAM and an NVidia 1080 with NVMEs/SSDs and it runs fine, without a hiccup.

With software, given the time invested in getting to know it, I always pick a product that will be developed and around in years to come and Resolve is one of those, (I hope!).

[sonics]

Is that overkill or even doable?

Thousands of people do this every day. Yes, it's doable.
The biggest issue will be synchronization.

Multiple audio recordings will mean a lot of sync-checking. IME sync can go out in as little as a few minutes with different machines. Are you recording long takes or not? Have a sync reference before every take. If it's very long takes you'll have to learn how to resync audio. There are automated tools for dialogue, but not for music AFAIK.

I'd highly recommend Resolve, and at least a few days of serious study and practice to get up to speed. It's a fantastic tool. I've not been tempted to use Vegas, Premier or Final Cut Pro since switching. They may be easier for a novice to get started with, but they lack the power and sophistication I see in Resolve. I'm not a full-time professional editor, so I think my experience is relevant. Resolve audio support has come along nicely in the last few years, too.

If you have a reasonably modern computer Resolve should run well for simple video dubbing work. It tends to only need processing power when you get into 4k video and effects. I can sync up to three audio tracks at 4k on a cheap laptop. You need to learn about proxy files and optimised media as well, if you're getting into the video editing.

I’m using Windows 10 but being cross platform would be an advantage, as if I want to work on a laptop at some point, the Apple laptop hardware is appealing.

Resolve runs very well on Apple Silicon!

[adrian_k]

I had to get into video a couple of years ago and gave Shotcut a try (after a recommendation from Drew I think). It does everything I need so I looked no further - multiple audio and video tracks, built in effects (including simple audio tools) and transitions, pretty easy to get into, cross platform. And free. I’m running on a cheap laptop, videos up to 15 mins, not 4k.

[S.Crow]

Thanks all.
It’s uncanny how much the comments mirror my current thoughts.

I’m going to use metal percussion as a clapper board as the transients should be clear.

I have an Intel i9-9900 (8C/16T), 64GB DDR4 3200 and currently using the iGPU.
I’ve budgeted for a Nvidia RTX 4060 (or TI) but will wait and see what the bottlenecks are like.

I don’t really trust Magix as a company, as their aim seems to be to release a fairly minimal upgrade yearly at a not insubstantial price.
With all the reports I have seen about instability, Vegas is one to avoid I think even if it will be potentially easier at the start.

Resolve Studio even with a hardware controller is only around £300 and for many years the upgrades have been free, plus I can start off with the free version.
I just feel as if I’d be buying into a more solid and professional platform with Blackmagic.

I’ll take a look at Shotcut too.
I do need to bite the bullet and allocate the time to run through some tutorials for Resolve.
At least once I have grasped the basics with one package, it will be easier for me to evaluate which workflow I prefer when looking at a second one.

[Philbo King]

I've used Reaper to do this.
Basically:
- Use a clapboard or handclap at the beginning AND end of the take to give an audible and visual cue.
- Import the video
- Import the separate sound files to different tracks
- Time-align the start point of all tracks (if it starts with a clapboard, or a handclap, that makes it much easier to do)
- If there is clock drift (very likely) use stretch makers to align the end points of all tracks as well. The best way is (for each added track) to drop a marker at the start point, another at the end, then move the end marker to match the end of the video.
- Use volume or mute envelopes to select which audio sources to use at any given moment. Volume for mixing them, mute for keeping one source.
- This can easily be extended to using multiple cameras; each would have a separate track, and would be unmuted to select one, just as you'd do for the audio sources.

[sonics]

I’m going to use metal percussion as a clapper board as the transients should be clear.

A clap is as good as a cowbell to a deaf engineer!

I have an Intel i9-9900 (8C/16T), 64GB DDR4 3200 and currently using the iGPU.

I just feel as if I’d be buying into a more solid and professional platform with Blackmagic.

In Resolve the iGPU will be fine for simple 1080 work, but I'd say you'll need the GPU upgrade if you plan to work at 4k or higher. You also need fast drives. BMD have a speed test utility available. I'd aim to run internal NVME storage in order to achieve 3,000Mb/s, but you can get away with slower if you optimise your media.

The advantage of Resolve over doing this stuff in Reaper is the huge range of video tools that Reaper cannot provide, of course. And for a project like this Resolve has all the audio facilities you'll you need, apart from specialist time-stretching. Take the free version for a test drive and see how it feels.

Shotcut is an excellent tool with some great features. When I was moving from Vegas I tried it as well as Resolve and some others.
Buying Resolve Studio and getting a free Speed Editor was what tipped me into the purchase. No regrets; the power of Resolve impresses me every time I use it. You really do need to invest time in some training to get the most out of it (and even use it effectively at all).

[S.Crow]

Thanks again.
I did realise at the last moment that I should add a clap at the end.
It’s very early days so I am learning each time I make a video.
I do actually have a decent sized cowbell that I might extract from my storage cupboard for a bit of fun.

The first stage is all me talking to camera.
The second stage will be me demonstrating certain techniques and that will be more important in terms of getting it right.
All shot indoors with the lighting influenced by the weather and sometimes the lighting will be deliberately low as that is what I require for certain things.

I am looking into using a pair of these or something similar:
ELGATO Key Light Air
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgato-Key-Lig ... 082QHRZFW/

I’ve read that you should use a pair, presumably so that you don’t get a spotlight effect!

I think the final output should be fine at 1080P.
I am considering buying a second Pixel 6 Pro and shooting one at 4K and the other at 1080P.
Then I have the opportunity in post to zoom in on the 4K footage to get a closeup and still have quality that is fine for 1080P.
Having two of the same cameras should make matching footage easier.

A concern is that I may need a better second camera than the Pixel due to the low light, so buying a second wouldn’t make sense.
I’m currently using a mid-range Samsung (A52s) as a second camera but more as an evaluation tool rather than I expect it to be good enough, although too early to say.
The second and third stages will require shots lasting for over an hour, which rules out a lot of cameras which have the 30 minute limit.
These have to be continuous and I can’t pause to stop and restart .

Seeing as how static much of it will be and that the light is not ideal, is it better to shoot at 25P rather than 50P?
So much to learn and with a lot of trial and error as well no doubt.

My system can currently support three NVMe drives but once I add a GPU that will drop to two.
How many drives do I optimally need to assign for video storage?
If it makes a big difference to use two NVMe drives for video, I can always stick the OS on a SATA SSD I suppose and keep the NVMe for video!
Or I can buy a larger boot NVMe drive and use that as a secondary video drive.
The main video drive should probably be my Micron U.3 enterprise drive as it is 7.68TB and has an endurance rating of one DWPD.

[Drew Stephenson]

When it comes to lighting, the strongest tool in your box is natural light. If you can get natural light onto people's faces then some fill lighting is relatively easy. If you're having to work without natural light then you might find you need some serious studio lighting and expect to spend a bit of time learning how white balance works in your editor.

[sonics]

I do actually have a decent sized cowbell that I might extract from my storage cupboard for a bit of fun.

I'm a disbeliever, and think that the world actually needs less cowbell. (Unless actually attached to a cow, that is.)

Having two of the same cameras should make matching footage easier.

True...but once you have camera profiles created that might be a trivial job, but it's one more thing to do and one more bit of processing you might not need to do otherwise.

The second and third stages will require shots lasting for over an hour, which rules out a lot of cameras which have the 30 minute limit.

I have a cheap Canon camcorder for such duties, and the option to rent more expensive gear.

Seeing as how static much of it will be and that the light is not ideal, is it better to shoot at 25P rather than 50P?

Are you talking about shutter speed or do you mean 25/50fps?

How many drives do I optimally need to assign for video storage?

I would think that one fast 1/2TB drive should be enough, but I'd increase that to 4TB if you have the funds. It's related to the optimised/proxy files that are created (I'm talking about Resolve here).

[S.Crow]

I do have natural light coming through a large window which is directly opposite where I will be sitting, so it is ideal in that sense.
Obviously it will be very variable in the UK.

I know the term white balance but I don't really know what the full implications are.
I might need to experiment with different light bulbs too.

I was talking about shooting at 25 v 50 fps.
When I changed one of the phones from 50 to 25 fps in a low light setting, the image was much brighter.
This is all on auto right now as I don't know enough to use manual yet.

I recall back in the 90s, people were using 'scratch disks' for photo editing.
So I am wondering if there is a modern equivalent for video editing with SSDs
For example, when rendering the final output, is it better to have that be on a separate drive to the one containing the raw footage?