Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:33 am
I want to be very awake when I listen to music, I want my ears assaulted, my brain assaulted, please shock me, please move me, please change my life, please just make me react, in any way.
I think it depends why you create and listen to music. For some it's art, in which case this resonates strongly, but for others it's entertainment...
I often wonder about that ambient chill out music that you often hear playing quietly in trendy hotel bars. It’s often very well produced, the chord progressions are sometimes quite sophisticated and it’s utterly ignored by almost everyone. But it’s not been made by a bunch of talentless wannabes, where acoustic instruments like flutes and saxes are involved the session players are clearly top notch. I’m sure nobody involved started out yearning for that big break in the hotel bar ambient chill scene. But that’s not even entertainment. It’s musical wallpaper.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:33 am
I want to be very awake when I listen to music, I want my ears assaulted, my brain assaulted, please shock me, please move me, please change my life, please just make me react, in any way.
I think it depends why you create and listen to music. For some it's art, in which case this resonates strongly, but for others it's entertainment...
I often wonder about that ambient chill out music that you often hear playing quietly in trendy hotel bars. It’s often very well produced, the chord progressions are sometimes quite sophisticated and it’s utterly ignored by almost everyone. But it’s not been made by a bunch of talentless wannabes, where acoustic instruments like flutes and saxes are involved the session players are clearly top notch. I’m sure nobody involved started out yearning for that big break in the hotel bar ambient chill scene. But that’s not even entertainment. It’s musical wallpaper.
That's more or less exactly how Angus Young of AC/DC described their music some years ago now. His view was that their thing was no big deal and that rock and roll was something people had on in the background while they were doing something else. Quite the opposite attitude that you'd have expected from a Rock Denizen like that. The thing with wallpaper is that you don't know how important it is - until it's not there.
I think the creators age is a consideration. Someone from the short attention span crowd might have a different answer than one of the grey beards.
As for wallpaper it’s also possible the tracks are ambient versions of club or other hits.
I remember getting into an elevator many years ago and the track being played was The Police’s Little Black Spot or whatever it’s called. Only it was played on marimba and other easy listening instruments AND somehow they managed to make it sound amazingly square and robotic. I was impressed.
On LP’s wasn’t there a way to include a hidden track that would only play if you found the extra spiral or something? Grey beard memory at work here.
soundesigner wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:12 am
Also I would love to do 24 hour album as well so it can be played in the background while falling asleep or else.
I hate the word "ambient" music to be ignored, to do other things to, go to sleep to.
I want to be very awake when I listen to music, I want my ears assaulted, my brain assaulted, please shock me, please move me, please change my life, please just make me react, in any way.
All of those things haven’t happened to me for years.
Well, I can't help with that - on the other hand I am sure there is something out there which might blow your mind if you listen to it!
Napalm Death on their 1987 album Scum, side 2 : 16 pieces from 16seconds to max 1min21seconds.
Done in 14minutes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLyPzIn1 ... 0gc2lkZSBi
I quite dig that.
I've got snippets done in a few seconds to a minute : no point dragging it ooot.
It’s pointless, futile, talking about why some don’t like certain types of music, or agree with our views on them, and getting worked up about certain types of musicians, I’m going to quote Robert Wyatt "it’s a bit like being angry with a girl that doesn’t fancy you, being angry isn’t going to make her like you"
In the grand scheme of things this is all so unimportant it’s beyond belief, we all need to get a perspective.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:10 am
It’s pointless, futile, talking about why some don’t like certain types of music, or agree with our views on them, and getting worked up about certain types of musicians, I’m going to quote Robert Wyatt "it’s a bit like being angry with a girl that doesn’t fancy you, being angry isn’t going to make her like you"
In the grand scheme of things this is all so unimportant it’s beyond belief, we all need to get a perspective.
Mostly Tony, we're talking about the length of albums in a streaming age. I don't think anyone is loosing perspective, getting worked up or angry (Well, except you maybe )
Arpangel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:10 am
It’s pointless, futile, talking about why some don’t like certain types of music, or agree with our views on them, and getting worked up about certain types of musicians, I’m going to quote Robert Wyatt "it’s a bit like being angry with a girl that doesn’t fancy you, being angry isn’t going to make her like you"
In the grand scheme of things this is all so unimportant it’s beyond belief, we all need to get a perspective.
Mostly Tony, we're talking about the length of albums in a streaming age. I don't think anyone is loosing perspective, getting worked up or angry (Well, except you maybe )
One of my oblique stream of consciousness explorations once again.
For streaming, one of my bands releases each song individually as a single. That way the song gets the attention that we think it deserves. It also shows that as creators of the music we have no idea about how our listeners are going to react. Our second most popular song (and it's only had a few less streams than our most popular one) would have probably been tucked away in the middle of side two of an album, where it would have been ignored by everyone except our most hardcore fans.
Everything I have 'released' since about 2019 has been as singles only, because there seems no point in albums in the streaming era. However, this recent experiment I've done in pulling together a cluster of remixes and new material for 2023 (which I would have done the usual thing of treating myself to a Christmas present CD Baby set of single releases with) has reminded me how much fun compiling an album used to be. For me it makes no difference how it's made available. My music doesn't sell (it's pretty obscure and for the grandparent generation), moreover, I have no marketing budget, etc. etc. etc. So I might as well make albums out of it as singles. It's all recreation for me - and I don't have an agent or label boss constantly nagging at me for things. When I have finished off this 'release' - I'll probably get bored and go back to singles again. It's a long time before another 10 tracks are going to be ready at my work rate. But either way, albums or singles, I still have no marketing capability, so that's largely where each thing ends.
BigRedX wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:12 pm
That way the song gets the attention that we think it deserves.
The attention it deserves? that’s a tricky one.
The attention my music "deserves" is to be listened to only by those that "get it" others are welcome, but in all honestly I couldn’t give a f**k about those that don’t get it.
BigRedX wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:12 pm
It also shows that as creators of the music we have no idea about how our listeners are going to react.
How they react is entirely up to them, and we shouldn’t expect a certain reaction, the music will be entirely in "their heads" to make of what they will, we can only provide some kindling.
Most of my output is arrangements, simply because virtually everything I do is for people to play together. My friends will play most of what I arrange and some of what I compose. The whole process is reinforced and justified by cake. My reputation for baking far outstrips my musical legacy. Sad, but true.
I wanted to make an album of 100 pieces : 20seconds -30 seconds per piece with each piece being different style : 100 different styles on the album.
It's far harder than I imagined.
If I said to myself I will stay with 10 or 20 styles do 100 pieces in 10 or 20 styles it would been far easier.
tea for two wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:08 am
I wanted to make an album of 100 pieces : 20seconds -30 seconds per piece with each piece being different style.
It's far harder than I imagined.
If I said to myself I will stay with 10 or 20 styles do 100 pieces in 10 or 20 styles it would been far easier.
It's on the back burner lol.
The closest I’ve ever got to this was my album "End Of The World" I sat down every day, and played for a certain amount of time, just one piece, every day, all short pieces.
I put the album together "as played" chronologically, with no editing.
tea for two wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:08 am
I wanted to make an album of 100 pieces : 20seconds -30 seconds per piece with each piece being different style : 100 different styles on the album.
It's far harder than I imagined.
If I said to myself I will stay with 10 or 20 styles do 100 pieces in 10 or 20 styles it would been far easier.
It's on the back burner lol.
There's this album that just does that. 100 x 30s songs by numerous artists.
I'd have to make kind of a spreadsheet of 100 styles then tick off each style.
I would probably just use variations of what's already out there, instead of trying to write originals which would take a loooong time.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:45 amHow they react is entirely up to them, and we shouldn’t expect a certain reaction, the music will be entirely in "their heads" to make of what they will, we can only provide some kindling.
What I was trying to put over, was that by releasing each song/piece of music individually as a single, each one gets the full attention of our audience and potential audience.
I've discovered in the past that most people who aren't already fans will listen to the first (and maybe the second) track of your album and unless those have absolutely grabbed them that will be it. And this is the same when tracks get selected to be reviewed and included in blog or other on-line sources. That means the casual listener will probably never discover any of the other songs on your carefully crafted and ordered album, even though other songs may actually appeal to them.
Releasing them one at a time as single tracks avoids this. As a creator of the music I have ideas about what I think are the strongest songs, but that may well be different to what my audience thinks. In this particular case, not only would our second most popular song have been mostly ignored as part of an album, but it would probably been dropped from our live set by now in favour of something newer but perhaps less popular.
Arpangel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 8:45 amHow they react is entirely up to them, and we shouldn’t expect a certain reaction, the music will be entirely in "their heads" to make of what they will, we can only provide some kindling.
What I was trying to put over, was that by releasing each song/piece of music individually as a single, each one gets the full attention of our audience and potential audience.
I've discovered in the past that most people who aren't already fans will listen to the first (and maybe the second) track of your album and unless those have absolutely grabbed them that will be it. And this is the same when tracks get selected to be reviewed and included in blog or other on-line sources. That means the casual listener will probably never discover any of the other songs on your carefully crafted and ordered album, even though other songs may actually appeal to them.
Releasing them one at a time as single tracks avoids this. As a creator of the music I have ideas about what I think are the strongest songs, but that may well be different to what my audience thinks. In this particular case, not only would our second most popular song have been mostly ignored as part of an album, but it would probably been dropped from our live set by now in favour of something newer but perhaps less popular.
It’s me, I’m forgetting that you actually are a public performer, that plays in front of people, lots of them probably, unlike us solo studio hermits, that rarely come out in daylight, let alone at night.
Playing live is great, getting that instant feedback, good or bad you can have hit singles too, a hit single for me is about 40 mins long and requires intensive listening, preferably while stroking one’s beard and reading a copy of the Wire, or some underground anarchist magazine.
MarkOne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:41 am
I too am an 'album' guy. But I do agree with the 'as long as it needs to be' sentiment.
Well, I make my music for me and for others, and since I get to hear it no matter how long the project is, I've gone to singles for the following reason:
I released, once a month for 14 months, 5-song video recordings that totalled 18 or 20 minutes each. EPs.
Then I shifted to one song once a month, and now I'm averaging one song maybe once every three months or so. (It's difficult to calculate - I'm between video cameras and softwares right now.)
Long story short, the single releases get more views in Youtube than the 5-song 18 minute releases. So I've concluded, that since I want to get my music to people (unless it's too much work ha ha), it's better to release singles.
BigRedX wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:24 pm
by releasing each song/piece of music individually as a single, each one gets the full attention of our audience and potential audience.
the casual listener will probably never discover any of the other songs on your carefully crafted and ordered album, even though other songs may actually appeal to them.
Releasing them one at a time as single tracks avoids this.
In this particular case, not only would our second most popular song have been mostly ignored as part of an album, but it would probably been dropped from our live set by now in favour of something newer but perhaps less popular.
awjoe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:40 am
I released, once a month for 14 months, 5-song video recordings that totalled 18 or 20 minutes each. EPs.
Then I shifted to one song once a month, and now I'm averaging one song maybe once every three months or so. (It's difficult to calculate - I'm between video cameras and softwares right now.)
Long story short, the single releases get more views in Youtube than the 5-song 18 minute releases. So I've concluded, that since I want to get my music to people (unless it's too much work ha ha), it's better to release singles.
It's tempting to say it's because nowadays people on the whole have so many choices so little time to spend on one thing.
Like having 100 TV channels instead of 2 TV channels.
Yet since the charts began no musician band foisted a whole album*, ep, at once upon the audience (afaik) no matter how famouse.
It was Singles.
Only after a few Singles, then an album, ep, was put out.
)
and scared away the audience.
