Victory Amps and Lee Anderton

[Lala]

One of many suggested videos on my usual afternoon amble around YouTube yesterday was entitled 'Andertons Big Secret'...

https://youtu.be/FeHzkAxcCWU?si=dpGozoUVeXvIw-lr

Was it widely know by those in the trade as it were that Lee Anderton was a co-owner of Victory Amps ?

[sonics]

I saw that video as well. I have no current associations with the UK music industry, but know that sort of business link is commonplace. I have watched a few of the Andertons guitar videos, and seeing Victory amps in every one I assumed some kind of relationship. There is nothing new or surprising here, nor anything I would be worried about. Andertons are a retailer trying to sell gear, and increase the interest in gear to garner more sales. They are not your friends...

[Lala]

Completely agree that the retailer doesn't have to 'be my friend', I've also worked in several, very different, areas of retail, nothing to do with music, instruments, amps, music tech or otherwise and know that, as a retailer, you can sell stuff that you have a financial interest in (more than just buying the stock in the first place).

I've never heard of the KDH channel, I literally stumbled across it by chance and the biggest thing I've ever bought from Andertons was a guitar tuner!

If you buy guitar amps/pedals based solely on what your ears tell you, none of this will be of any interest whatsoever but what if you walk into Andertons and rely on what the salesperson is telling you... this amp is much better than this amp etc etc or perhaps use an amp 'shoot out' on the YouTube channel to narrow down your choices.... don't you need/expect impartiality, or is that a bit naive on my part?

What I find a bit odd is that in some of those reviews featured in the video I linked to, at least one person is putting their hand up and declaring an interest in the brand with Lee sitting next to them, wouldn't you feel the need to do likewise if you were Lee...I dunno?

[Wonks]

Andertons are not the only Victory dealer. The price is what it is and you can make your own decisions as to whether you think it's worth the money or not.

I doubt you'd be spending £1k-£3k on an amp just because a salesperson told you to. I've never been in to Andertons and had anything pushed at me. I've gone in, asked to try particular guitars and amps out and that's been it.

If you want to go in and ask a salesman to suggest something, then that's up to you, but even then, the Victorys are good amps, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone genuinely suggested one.

Andertons video are normally informative rather shoot-out styles, and they never hear them say 'this one is best'. They may give some plus or minus points for the tested items, but then it's 'tell us what you think in the comments below'.

At best, they give you an idea of how they can sound, which might lead you to go and try one in the shop.

All rather a non-story IMO.

[Lala]

In the interest of fairness, there was a follow up video in which Lee appears.

Apparently, technically, he'd broken ASA guidelines albeit only three people complained and he will now have to declare an interest in products they review on the YouTube channel.

https://youtu.be/_lRPbEHZ9DE?si=sHtYGpGcGGM_I5Yw

I wonder whether he actually missed a trick here and should've made more of the fact he was a co-owner, kinda in the vein of Victor Kyam, 'the product was so good, when I had the chance to get involved with the company, I jumped at the chance' etc etc.

[ef37a]

"If you buy guitar amps/pedals based solely on what your ears tell you, none of this will be of any interest whatsoever but what if you walk into Andertons and rely on what the salesperson is telling you."

'Twas ever thus Lala. In the 70s and beyond there were hundreds of "hi fi" stores selling a vast range of kit from really top quality to complete ***t. Then there was the issue of "compatibility". Not everything worked well with everything else, you needed a well clued up sales person to guide you. Were there many? Were there bllx! They sold what they were told to sell to reap the best profit and maximize their commission.

I worked as a service tech for a fairly large company years ago and naturally got asked about products. I was given a severe carpeting for telling a customer that Amstrad products were crap!

It might not seem so but there is actually less audio rubbish about now than back then and of course peeps have forums where they can get impartial advice. SoS being of course the very best of them.

Dave.

[Lala]

ef37a your post made me chuckle, I'm a rubbish salesman tbh, I can only sell stuff that I like, that I rate from personal use, stuff that I can really get behind.

If the boss said there's 50 boxes of product XYZ out back I got a great price on and we need to shift it pronto, if it was crap, I could never sell it.

I'm way too honest I think lol

[ef37a]

ef37a your post made me chuckle, I'm a rubbish salesman tbh, I can only sell stuff that I like, that I rate from personal use, stuff that I can really get behind.

If the boss said there's 50 boxes of product XYZ out back I got a great price on and we need to shift it pronto, if it was crap, I could never sell it.

I'm way too honest I think lol

Yeah, "nice work if you can get it!" When you have a decent job with a car AND two kids, a mortgage and a wife, things are bit harder!
I was not a salesman but people naturally asked for my advice. Even though one was circumspect in "I really would not buy one of those" The customer would tell the store manager "Your service man said they were cheap shite" Then I got a bllking!

Dave.

[BigRedX]

Andertons also own Burns guitars, and I suspect they probably own several other brands.

[Wonks]

A big stake in Chapman guitars, and they did have a big stake in ACM Guildford (and probably still do) whilst the chaps who started ACM had a corresponding stake in Andertons (and may still do).

[MarkOne]

I think the main point of the initial video was that while Lee Anderson has an interest in Burns, and Chapman he regularly and often mentioned the fact in the demo videos, and made no secret of it, but for some reason he totally failed to mention any affiliation with Victory.

On the whole I thought a well researched and presented piece.

Not that I really care, as I can't play a guitar, and if I did, I would almost certainly be using a helix or something

[Wonks]

Not that I really care, as I can't play a guitar, and if I did, I would almost certainly be using a helix or something

This is what happens when you let keyboard players into a guitar forum, it all goes to wrack and ruin!

[Lala]

I think the main point of the initial video was that while Lee Anderson has an interest in Burns, and Chapman he regularly and often mentioned the fact in the demo videos, and made no secret of it, but for some reason he totally failed to mention any affiliation with Victory.

Exactly this

[Wonks]

It may well come down to hands-on involvement vs simple financial investment. Lee's not an amp designer or electronics expert but he does know a fair bit about guitars, so he may have more of a say as to what goes on with Burns stuff, but probably saw Victory which Rob Chapman had a lot to do with its founding, as somewhere to invest some money and help grow another British amp company.

If he's just an investor, he well may just forget about that side of things most of the time and view the products as he would any other product.

[Sam Spoons]

I haven't watched the video in full (I might do later but I do get bored easily ) but it seems like a complete none story to me, I worked in MI retail for 10 years in the '70's and '80's* and there were always deals to be done and what I was able to glean from the text parts of the video Lee Anderton was a small investor in Victory Amps at the beginning (along with several others) and has given advice to the people running the company over the years. Little different to the relationship the boss of one company I worked for had as a Hammond Organ dealer with the UK importer. Feedback was sought and given, deals were done and product was promoted and (hopefully) sold with incentives to the salesmen to sell the brand. The question is did he keep his involvement secret? I don't know, IMV, if he did how has that affected buyers of guitar amps from Andertons? My experience in the industry led me to believe that most of the customers were not stupid and could tell if they were being fed a line and if salesmen were incentivised to sell Victory amps in preference to other brands that's no different to me being incentivised to sell Hammond organs.

* Like Adrian I was not the most successful salesman as I found it hard to sell poor product but I did earn a useful living doing it for most of that time. The last company I worked for sold a couple of truly awful brands and the branch I was employed to run closed after a few months at which point I moved on to another industry.

[S2]

Just to add some further context, as I suspect that this isn't about Victory amps at all.

The guy who 'exposed' Lee Anderton is a YouTuber called KDH. Some years ago (3-4?) he posted a video 'exposing' Rob Chapman, (who is a long time friend and business partner of Lee Anderton in the aforementioned Victory amps and also Chapman guitars and probably others), as being an all round bad egg. Something to do with bullying on social media or some such rubbish - I didn't take a huge amount of interest. But there then followed a bit of an online spat between the two. No idea how it was resolved, if it even was.

However fast forward 3-4 years and this KDH is now digging into Lee Anderton, so it would seem that he has a bit of beef with them both. No idea why or what the motivation is but it may well be that this KDH just has it in for those two and is looking for material to attack them with.

As said, a non story and taken in context, unbelievably childish.

[Drew Stephenson]

That's where you're wrong, it's all too believable.

[rggillespie]

I saw this KDH video by chance and I thought he was fair to Lee and had a good point, not aware of him before this, but it seemed civilised between them. People review things online and say 'I'm not being paid to promote this' or even 'I've been given this to review'. So at least the viewer knows where they stand and decide from an informed position. If Lee is a share holder and has something to gain by promoting Victory amps and hasn't declared his interest that doesn't feel right to me. Its a murky line between reviewing, advertising and promoting you'd hope for an impartial review as a buyer. If he's a shareholder he can hardly say this victory amp is not a patch on the Blackstar or Marshall can he? Of course not, he has a vested interest. Perhaps I was being very naïve before but I feel a little let down.

[Wonks]

If he's a shareholder he can hardly say this victory amp is not a patch on the Blackstar or Marshall can he? Of course not, he has a vested interest. Perhaps I was being very naïve before but I feel a little let down.

But that’s not how Andertons do their product reviews. They are mostly showing new product(s), running through the features and sounds and if it’s a range of say amps, then what the more expensive ones give you over the cheaper models.

I’ve never heard them say that product A is better than product B. Even when doing a cheap vs expensive FX pedal comparison they will never say that a particular pedal is better than another. They will point out that one has more gain or a better bass response (which is obvious from the audio) but still leave it up to the viewers to make comments about which they prefer.

I’ve never known a new Fender, Marshall, Blackstar or Orange etc. amp not get reviewed, or at least mentioned if it’s a big new range and they can’t review every single model.

People like Andertons because of the friendly chatty videos and maybe it’s because of feeling somewhat attached to them that that people might feel a bit upset. It’s certainly not that Andertons are pushing Victory amps at the expense of other manufacturers.

I get more upset when they don’t test out an amp with both single coil and humbucker equipped guitars.

[sonics]

One of the problems with YouTube is that videos from sellers may look just the same as those made by impartial reviewers. In a printed magazine, for example, it should be easy to tell an advert from the editorial content. Andertons is a shop, so as far as I'm concerned every single one of their videos is an advertisement. Naturally, they put what they want to sell at the front of the store. I think it was unfair to push Lee to have to declare his interest in Victory. He might as well declare an interest in all the gear, since he makes money by selling it!