Going all analog synths suggestions

[Kyle Holman]

I think choosing pure analogue over digital or hybrids is going to lose the OP some really good options, such as the Hydrasynth and the Novations.

If a digital machine can create the sounds you want, I wouldn’t rule it out.

Real synths, even digital ones, have some pluses over VSTis - especially the physicality of the interface and the (generally) lower levels of latency, both of which increase the sense of connection with the instrument.

Right? If its not about the sound, but rather the workflow, and they want the ability to save patches and it has to be a completely analog signal path that doesnt leave many options to chose from.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I’m only interested these days if something is genuinely unique and has a new way of making sounds, and actually creating new sounds we haven’t yet heard...

Ah... I'm not bothered about "new" or "unique sounds". I'm more interested in things like creativity, expression, performance, and interpretation.

For example, I have many different recordings of Chopin piano and JS Bach organ works simply because I appreciate and enjoy the different interpretations and performances. Same sounds, same music, but very different experiences.

Chasing novelty holds no interest, pleasure or value for me, and doubly so if the uniqueness is a substitute for musicality.

Good job we're all different I guess.

[Arpangel]

I’m only interested these days if something is genuinely unique and has a new way of making sounds, and actually creating new sounds we haven’t yet heard...

Ah... I'm not bothered about "new" or "unique sounds". I'm more interested in things like creativity, expression, performance, and interpretation.

For example, I have many different recordings of Chopin piano and JS Bach organ works simply because I appreciate and enjoy the different interpretations and performances. Same sounds, same music, but very different experiences.

Chasing novelty holds no interest, pleasure or value for me, and doubly so if the uniqueness is a substitute for musicality.

Good job we're all different I guess.

You’ve hit the nail on the head, sounds alone do not make a piece of music.
And that’s why I’m moving away from programming and synthesis, and playing our piano more, it’s easier to focus purely on the music, the sound has already been decided for me.
But saying that, when I am using electronics it’s very often that a sound will suggest a piece, and that’s fine by me, as it will have to have a musical structure to succeed, if it doesn’t then it doesn’t work as a piece of music, some instruments nudge me in more of a successful direction than others, and it’s the whole package, sounds, instruments, musical intention, it all, works together.
I often hear mind numbing electronic "jams" that to me have no "musicality" or musical structure, it’s not that I’m not hearing it, it’s just deluded bullshit, simple as that.
I wasn’t brought up on electronic music, it was classical, religious music, organ/choral, and that is still with me, even when I’m making my electronic music the essence of that is still there.

[BigRedX]

IMO there are only two things that matter. The sound of the synth and how easy it is turn an idea in your head into a sound you can use - which is both the user interface and how the controls work within that interface.

For me having used both analogue and digital synths over the past 45 years, the method of sound generation really doesn't matter, so long as I can easily get the sorts of sounds that I want out of the instrument(s) in question.

If the OP really wants an all analogue signal generation and path plus user programmable patch memories they are looking at very expensive instruments because they are now either new and niche/limited edition or because they are old rare and probably increasingly unreliable.

I've stopped worrying about how the sounds are being generated. No-one important cares. Instead I'll just get on with making music with instruments that I can easily control.

[Arpangel]

IMO there are only two things that matter. The sound of the synth and how easy it is turn an idea in your head into a sound you can use

That’s it, I never have a sound in my head it’s always the instrument that suggests sounds, and the sounds lead to music, or get stored away to be used in the "right context" sometime in the future.

[SafeandSound Mastering]

A digital synth is, technically, a "vst in a box" if we want to be reductive. But the hydrasynth actually has analogue inputs and outputs as well, with the inputs as modulation sources to control almost anything and the outputs as cv/gate which allow you to do all kinds of weird things in the analogue domain if you want.
More importantly the displays and encoders constitute a tightly coupled control surface for the synth which is far more ergonomic than trying to mouse click your way around an on-screen UI.
And most softsynths have pretty dire interfaces anyway so compared with the hydrasynths myriad of buttons and knobs where you just press e.g lfo5 and set params quickly and easily, there's just no contest when it comes to sound design.

The Hydrasynth gets mentioned yet again.
I’ve got a challenge, to those here who own one, if you can make these sounds.
A dense forest with many chirping birds and calling animals, along with distant thunder rolling across the landscape, there’s steady rain, and the sound of frogs and insects.
8 oscillators stacked and tuned to individual notes, each has its own VCA and filter controlled by multiple random signal sources, and LFO's, for an Éliane Radigue style evolving soundscape.
Just two scenarios I can do with my modular, if there was an all-in-one box that did all this, plus great pianos strings brass and straight synth sounds I’d buy it, today, but there isn’t.

The analogue/digital debate is increasingly not worth being involved with but personally I think that box you mention is a PC or Mac Arpangel.

The execution would be different for sure, the workflow different, but I am sure 8 Bazille's each on a sep channel would be able to do what you sugest Arpangel.

Birds (FM), Rain (Noise), Forest (Silence?) Calling animals (FM) I can can do orangutang simulations with FM and a BPF or it might be just a saw and BPF cannot quite recall, but it has to be the right BPF) Insects filtered noise possibly with some S+H elements. Depends on what insects. Thunder I cannot recall right now, probably pink noise and FM somehow off the top of my head.

And this and all recallable and somewhat more portable for example for a sound art exhibition installation etc. Bazille is on a rare deal at the mo £52.00

We make our choices and accept the positives and negatives.

To the OP if you are into Synthwave the synths I originally mentioned (Sylenth1, Diva, Tal Uno-LX do VERY well and have good support from presets packs if that it your preference. For effects... Psychic Modulation's Echomelt and Baby Audio Inc's...Comeback Kid/Super VHS work very well.

(There is 1 preset in Hybrid3 which is archetypal 'glassy digital' and it is sooooooo synthwave, very Jan Hammer-y) There is always a surprise along the way with synthesis, something that should not work that simply does, depends on context and also where on the keyboard, what register a sound is played can change radically from one end to the other)

You 100pct do not need analogue to make synthwave. IMO a grand total of no one would know if it was analogue or digital, especially if effected with ITB effects processing.

I marvel at it all these days, I even marvel that I still marvel at it, it has not yet grown old. It is not to be taken for granted what we have and can do, it is luxurious and amazing.

What more privelege to sit in a warm, cosy, comfortable room tinkering around with synths of any kind, using time for pure sonic enjoyment.

[jaminem]

I Recently went on a bit of 'synth mission' as a change to my workflow as and aid to the creative process.
I added a Hydrasynth, MS-1, Pro-1, Model D and a Korg R3 to my Kong Prophecy (my fav synth ever) and existing arsenal of VST instruments from Rob Papen, Arturia and NI.
After the initial excitement of playing with new toys, getting everything setup I settled down to make music.

I soon realised that I rarely touched the synths, and certainly no more than I had used the Prophecy before. Simple things I took for granted - being on the right preset, ease of patching into my DAW, program changes and automation of parameters were all much more of a chore, not mention Cubase's midi device manager often loosing its shit meaning I'd have to go back and reset.

Then there was the once dreamed of 'Synth wall' bearing down on me, eating up space cluttering my workspace and frankly it cluttered my mind as well.

I had far too many options and too much faff in the way of actually making music.
It was just so much quicker and intuitive to open up a VSTi, find a close preset tweak it what I wanted, automate it and crack on.

Ive kept the Prophecy and Hydrasynth and sold everything else. Im much more productive again now.

Just my experience.

[johnny h]

I can confirm .. the Hydrasynth is one of the greatest synths around (at any price).

[N i g e l]

but it doesn’t come across as anything particularly new or innovative, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t sound very good, but it holds no attraction for me on that basis alone, there seem to be many other synths doing "more or less" the same things.

list all your wave table synths that are generative ?

[Arpangel]

but it doesn’t come across as anything particularly new or innovative, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t sound very good, but it holds no attraction for me on that basis alone, there seem to be many other synths doing "more or less" the same things.

list all your wave table synths that are generative ?

Bottom line is that if it made my ears prick up, and I was hearing things I’ve never heard before, I’d have a Hydrasynth.
I’m also with Jaminem here, there’s just too much stuff around, also, a lot of it is very similar, just wrapped up in different clothes.
You can’t win though, the search for "new" sounds is pointless, they become cliched very quickly, and the search starts all over again, I believe it’s better to use things in a way no one else is, a combination of things, that no one else is using, that means doing exactly the opposite, and buying things that aren’t current, or are not considered useful.
Most of the time I’m happy with a plain filtered saw wave, with a bit of vibrato, I’m easily pleased.

[BigRedX]

That’s it, I never have a sound in my head it’s always the instrument that suggests sounds, and the sounds lead to music, or get stored away to be used in the "right context" sometime in the future.

When I am working on a piece of music by the time I have the main musical theme worked out (usually a bass line) I can hear what all the other instruments are going to be doing along with the kinds of sounds that each will have. Therefore for me the user interface of the instrument or effect is by far the most important thing as a good one will let me achieve what I want with the maximum speed and the minimum of fuss.

[Arpangel]

That’s it, I never have a sound in my head it’s always the instrument that suggests sounds, and the sounds lead to music, or get stored away to be used in the "right context" sometime in the future.

When I am working on a piece of music by the time I have the main musical theme worked out (usually a bass line) I can hear what all the other instruments are going to be doing along with the kinds of sounds that each will have. Therefore for me the user interface of the instrument or effect is by far the most important thing as a good one will let me achieve what I want with the maximum speed and the minimum of fuss.

I can understand that completely, you know what you need and you need things that can deliver with no messing about.
I’m exactly the opposite, I don’t even know what I’m going to be doing from the minute I turn things on.
I suppose I’m in no way trained in anything, and my knowledge is very bad, I just trash about until I hear something "happening" and go in that direction, where I end up and what instrument I use is always uncertain.

[tea for two]

AMP Electronics Star Song Synth, Touch Tones Synth, Wave Expander Melody Oracle.
https://www.juno.co.uk/products/amp-ele ... 947840-01/
https://www.juno.co.uk/products/amp-ele ... 908749-01/
https://www.juno.co.uk/products/amp-ele ... 908665-01/

I could then dress up as Ming the Merciless.

::

A Breath controlled Melodica style Midi keyboard controller :
playing Synth vsts, Reed Brass String samples would make a world of difference for me.
Also a Breath controlled Melodica with built in quality sounds as on quality workstations, quality home arranger keyboards.

::

I get bamboozled by lots of dials. So that rules ooot purchasing most Synths, Euroracks, Modulars.
Buttons sliders are fine : Arps, CS50 60 80, Easel, Oberheims, Organs, Roland's JD800 Juno Jupe SH, Home arranger keyboards, Workstations.
I have a form of dyspraxia butt it's nuffink to do with that, I'm just easily bamboozled.

[Kyle Holman]

That’s it, I never have a sound in my head it’s always the instrument that suggests sounds, and the sounds lead to music, or get stored away to be used in the "right context" sometime in the future.

When I am working on a piece of music by the time I have the main musical theme worked out (usually a bass line) I can hear what all the other instruments are going to be doing along with the kinds of sounds that each will have. Therefore for me the user interface of the instrument or effect is by far the most important thing as a good one will let me achieve what I want with the maximum speed and the minimum of fuss.

I can understand that completely, you know what you need and you need things that can deliver with no messing about.
I’m exactly the opposite, I don’t even know what I’m going to be doing from the minute I turn things on.
I suppose I’m in no way trained in anything, and my knowledge is very bad, I just trash about until I hear something "happening" and go in that direction, where I end up and what instrument I use is always uncertain.

If thats the case I definitely suggest not going all analog, getting multiple midi devices all working together properly is rarely a simple process. Midi is pretty idiosyncratic in and of itself, definitely a lot to fuss with.

[Kyle Holman]

if you are truly serious about wanting to have a very immediate and hassle free way to create music I would suggest getting an ipad and a midi controller to use with it and buy some music making apps for it, There are a lot of really well developed synth, sampler, sound design, and music creation apps and they are very affordable and very intuitive for the ipad.

[Arpangel]

if you are truly serious about wanting to have a very immediate and hassle free way to create music I would suggest getting an ipad and a midi controller to use with it and buy some music making apps for it, There are a lot of really well developed synth, sampler, sound design, and music creation apps and they are very affordable and very intuitive for the ipad.

Can be good, but I’ve tried working with my iPad and it’s strangely uninspiring, just on its own.
It’s great for experimental free stuff, some great apps that take advantage of the keyboard, but beyond that, I can’t imagine using it all the time.

[Kyle Holman]

have you seen the drambo drum designer and midi sequencer app for it?

LIke I said you really need to connect a midi controller to it

[N i g e l]

drambo looks insane !
Is there anything similar for Android users ?

[Kyle Holman]

i guess it's on android as well. I have no idea if you can connect a midi device to an android device though I would assume there is a way, and I know how apple is when it comes to only supporting a dongle or what have you for a single generation, but historically android tablets have been low key trash. Although I do realize that samsung has recently released a premium tablet. Still the biggest issue with android is that it has to support so many various specs and that has always been one of the few things that apple users have that cant be argued over when it comes to what is better, but because that's been a reality for so long not many people really buy android tablets.

[BigRedX]

Unless the recent versions have significantly improved, there is an underlying problem with the Android OS in that it doesn't prioritise real-time audio and/or MIDI in the same way that iOS does. In the past that has made it a complete non-starter for anything but the most basic of music applications.

[Arpangel]

have you seen the drambo drum designer and midi sequencer app for it?

LIke I said you really need to connect a midi controller to it

I like apps that take advantage of the screen, that are designed to work with that, like TC11, ThumbJam, also Animoog sounds beautiful if you play it from the on-screen keyboard, very expressive.
As soon as I connect an external controller it all goes a bit wooden, and looses its expressivity.

[sonics]

As soon as I connect an external controller it all goes a bit wooden, and looses its expressivity.

Which controller? Just a keyboard with faders and/or knobs is going to be quite restrictive, obviously. You'd need an Osmose, touché or something more relevant really. I'm quite certain you know that, though...

The extra control I can get outside of the tablet adds to what I'm able to do. I simply combine the technologies.

[Arpangel]

As soon as I connect an external controller it all goes a bit wooden, and looses its expressivity.

Which controller? Just a keyboard with faders and/or knobs is going to be quite restrictive, obviously. You'd need an Osmose, touché or something more relevant really. I'm quite certain you know that, though...

The extra control I can get outside of the tablet adds to what I'm able to do. I simply combine the technologies.

You’re right of course, but I’m not sufficiently interested in alternative controllers in general, to investigate further.

[tea for two]

have you seen the drambo drum designer and midi sequencer app for it?

LIke I said you really need to connect a midi controller to it

I like apps that take advantage of the screen, that are designed to work with that, like TC11, ThumbJam, also Animoog sounds beautiful if you play it from the on-screen keyboard, very expressive.

I've only performed live with a band twice : aboot 20mins each time.
Were I ever part of a band, formed a band, I'd be faaar in the background noodling on ipad touchscreen on apps as TC11 also the app Eddy is coding designing, so that I couldn't fluff it right up, also because these apps can easily play on touchscreen what I can't, whilst the proper players would be upfront on their acoustic electric instruments, voices.

[Arpangel]

have you seen the drambo drum designer and midi sequencer app for it?

LIke I said you really need to connect a midi controller to it

I like apps that take advantage of the screen, that are designed to work with that, like TC11, ThumbJam, also Animoog sounds beautiful if you play it from the on-screen keyboard, very expressive.

I've only performed live with a band twice : aboot 20mins each time.
Were I ever part of a band, formed a band, I'd be faaar in the background noodling on ipad touchscreen on apps as TC11 also the app Eddy is coding designing, so that I couldn't fluff it right up, whilst the proper players would be upfront on their acoustic electric instruments, voices.

You remind me very much of a friend I used to play with, he was a great synthesist, beyond.
But he was so afraid of sticking his neck out, always staying in the background, self derogatory, never committing himself.
There are no "proper" players, as soon as you pick up an instrument, or sing a note, you are a musician, like all others.

"we are all in the same boat, struggling to make sense of it all"

Bill Frisell.