Hello
I'm looking to make a DIY simrace setup like this :
https://www.slip-angle.com/new-page-3
I want to use 6 transducers, 4 for each wheel, 1 under the seat, 1 under the pedal break (smaller one)
I have found this for the amp :
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050063 ... MkQrx&mp=1
the amp is a 5.1 (so 6 channels)
for the bass shackers :
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050058 ... 1026610%21
they are rated 4ohms @50w with a frequency response of 20-80Hz
my questions :
(i) will the amp handle the 6 bass shakers independently ? Will there be enough power ?
(i) I also know that I will need a soundcard to convert the signal from the computer to the amp, I have no idea what to buy, will this works ? :
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050062 ... 21im%21%21
I'm a bit lost here, so much info about everything and my knowledge is not up to date to make the right choice, please let me know what do you recommend.
Thanks a lot
Boris
Bass shacker + amp + soundcar for simracing
Re: Bass shacker + amp + soundcar for simracing
Sorry Boris, I don't think this is the best forum to get answers to those sorts of questions. This forum is about making music rather than gaming. Similar technology, completely different applications and requirements.
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- Hugh Robjohns
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(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Bass shacker + amp + soundcar for simracing
thanks Hugh,
It is for gaming yes, but my question is purely on sound devices/speakers.
I need to find an amp with a soundcard that can power 6 speakers, that's all.
My question is not about gaming, I thought posting in the DIY section would help
thank you
It is for gaming yes, but my question is purely on sound devices/speakers.
I need to find an amp with a soundcard that can power 6 speakers, that's all.
My question is not about gaming, I thought posting in the DIY section would help
thank you
Re: Bass shacker + amp + soundcar for simracing
Audio aside, I doubt that amplifier has enough power. Regardless, when you add up all the parts, the readymade kit might even cost less.
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- resistorman
Frequent Poster - Posts: 2988 Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:00 am Location: Asheville NC
"The Best" piece of gear is subjective.
Re: Bass shacker + amp + soundcar for simracing
There are few points to be aware of.
50W is not the power requirement of the shaker actuator, that's the maximum power it can handle before it will suffer damage. It may well operate to your satisfaction with much less power (and I wouldn't expect them to work at anywhere near 50W for anything but a short time).
But note that that's 50W RMS
Watts, as in electrical power, can be hard to define and there are quite a few descriptions of watts used, often used to make something appear more powerful than it really is.
In audio amplifier terms, whist 'watts RMS' is technically nonsensical, it has been the bedrock of understanding amplifier power for many, many years. (watts AES is a modern and well defined term that most serious manufacturers are now using that gives very similar figures). It's closest to the basic definition of 1 watt being one volt times one amp that works well for DC power, but is less straightforward for AC.
If an amplifier channel is quoted as 50W RMS or 50W AES, you know what you're getting.
But people also quote 'peak' power, which is related to the highest voltage an amplifier can produce for a very short period of time. Amplifiers use capacitors to store energy for peaks. Wider, lower peaks are what you get with RMS power ratings, and the amp can sustain that power level.
Pass a very tall, short lived transient into an amp and it will try and amplify that to the best of its ability. The internal power rails in the amp limit the maximum voltage output, and the size of the capacitors in the power supply will determine how long that peak can be sustained for. The taller the peak, the less time the amp can output that voltage without discharging the capacitors.
It's that higher voltage, very short duration signal that manufacturers often quote when they just say 'watts'.
I'd imagine the Ali Express 5.1 amp you linked to is 50W 'peak'.
In terms of speakers, there's an interim value often referred to as 'music' or 'program' power in terms of their power handling. RMS power is measured using a constant level sine wave, normally at 1kHz.
Music is isn't a constant level wave like that. It's got loud bits and and softer bits , and the majority of the wave shape following an initial peak (say a drum hit) is at a lower much level. There are gaps and pauses between instruments and words in vocals.
The power rating of a speaker is a measure of how much thermal energy it can be fed. Almost all the electrical energy feeding a loudspeaker ends up as heat in the speaker coil, very little is converted to sound energy. So the speaker needs to dissipate that heat. There comes a point where it can't dissipate any more heat, and if you put more wattage into it, it will overheat and the voice coil will burn out. The more power, the faster it burns out.
So a 50W speaker can cope with being fed a constant 50W of power without damage big caused to the speaker (normally for a 1 hour period), but it can also cope with an average of 50W of power, say 100W for 0.1 seconds then 20-30W for 0.9 seconds. As long as the power input isn't continuous, and so giving the speaker time to cool down before the next big peak, then you can safely feed the speaker from an amplifier of up to twice the speaker RMS rating.
So for speakers, you often get a wattage figure that's 'music' or 'program' power (though the manufacturer often doesn't say so) as it's a bigger figure, and looks more impressive.
In general multiply watts RMS by two to get the music/program power and by four to get peak power (though some manufactures use an even bigger number if they just look at voltage and current over a 1 microsecond period).
So 50W RMS/AES could also be represented as 100W music power or 200W peak power.
Conversely, a 50W figure that's peak power is likely to be 25W music program power and 12.5W RMS/AES.
If we assume the Ali Express amplifier, given its low price, is 50W peak per channel, it's likely to be in the 10-12 watts per channel region, which for surround sound isn't bad, but you'll probably be running it flat-out to drive your shakers, which won't be good for it.
I'd be looking for something that said 50W RMS per channel, or 200W peak (if no watts type given).
I'd also be a bit wary of a 5.1 system where all the channels have the same quoted power output. Bass frequencies take a lot of power to make them loud, and on a good system, the sub channel is often a lot more powerful than the five main channels. You don't need that extra power, but a good 5.1 system should have it.
Your other problem is finding software that can encode the signals you want into a Dolby/DTS style 5.1 format down a digital cable that a standard 5.1 surround sound amp can accept. You may already have this, it's not an area I know anything about. I had a quick look at the Simhub page the Slip-angle site mentioned, but it was all about Arduinos and I couldn't see anything about repurposing a soundcard for tactile feedback purposes.
50W is not the power requirement of the shaker actuator, that's the maximum power it can handle before it will suffer damage. It may well operate to your satisfaction with much less power (and I wouldn't expect them to work at anywhere near 50W for anything but a short time).
But note that that's 50W RMS
Watts, as in electrical power, can be hard to define and there are quite a few descriptions of watts used, often used to make something appear more powerful than it really is.
In audio amplifier terms, whist 'watts RMS' is technically nonsensical, it has been the bedrock of understanding amplifier power for many, many years. (watts AES is a modern and well defined term that most serious manufacturers are now using that gives very similar figures). It's closest to the basic definition of 1 watt being one volt times one amp that works well for DC power, but is less straightforward for AC.
If an amplifier channel is quoted as 50W RMS or 50W AES, you know what you're getting.
But people also quote 'peak' power, which is related to the highest voltage an amplifier can produce for a very short period of time. Amplifiers use capacitors to store energy for peaks. Wider, lower peaks are what you get with RMS power ratings, and the amp can sustain that power level.
Pass a very tall, short lived transient into an amp and it will try and amplify that to the best of its ability. The internal power rails in the amp limit the maximum voltage output, and the size of the capacitors in the power supply will determine how long that peak can be sustained for. The taller the peak, the less time the amp can output that voltage without discharging the capacitors.
It's that higher voltage, very short duration signal that manufacturers often quote when they just say 'watts'.
I'd imagine the Ali Express 5.1 amp you linked to is 50W 'peak'.
In terms of speakers, there's an interim value often referred to as 'music' or 'program' power in terms of their power handling. RMS power is measured using a constant level sine wave, normally at 1kHz.
Music is isn't a constant level wave like that. It's got loud bits and and softer bits , and the majority of the wave shape following an initial peak (say a drum hit) is at a lower much level. There are gaps and pauses between instruments and words in vocals.
The power rating of a speaker is a measure of how much thermal energy it can be fed. Almost all the electrical energy feeding a loudspeaker ends up as heat in the speaker coil, very little is converted to sound energy. So the speaker needs to dissipate that heat. There comes a point where it can't dissipate any more heat, and if you put more wattage into it, it will overheat and the voice coil will burn out. The more power, the faster it burns out.
So a 50W speaker can cope with being fed a constant 50W of power without damage big caused to the speaker (normally for a 1 hour period), but it can also cope with an average of 50W of power, say 100W for 0.1 seconds then 20-30W for 0.9 seconds. As long as the power input isn't continuous, and so giving the speaker time to cool down before the next big peak, then you can safely feed the speaker from an amplifier of up to twice the speaker RMS rating.
So for speakers, you often get a wattage figure that's 'music' or 'program' power (though the manufacturer often doesn't say so) as it's a bigger figure, and looks more impressive.
In general multiply watts RMS by two to get the music/program power and by four to get peak power (though some manufactures use an even bigger number if they just look at voltage and current over a 1 microsecond period).
So 50W RMS/AES could also be represented as 100W music power or 200W peak power.
Conversely, a 50W figure that's peak power is likely to be 25W music program power and 12.5W RMS/AES.
If we assume the Ali Express amplifier, given its low price, is 50W peak per channel, it's likely to be in the 10-12 watts per channel region, which for surround sound isn't bad, but you'll probably be running it flat-out to drive your shakers, which won't be good for it.
I'd be looking for something that said 50W RMS per channel, or 200W peak (if no watts type given).
I'd also be a bit wary of a 5.1 system where all the channels have the same quoted power output. Bass frequencies take a lot of power to make them loud, and on a good system, the sub channel is often a lot more powerful than the five main channels. You don't need that extra power, but a good 5.1 system should have it.
Your other problem is finding software that can encode the signals you want into a Dolby/DTS style 5.1 format down a digital cable that a standard 5.1 surround sound amp can accept. You may already have this, it's not an area I know anything about. I had a quick look at the Simhub page the Slip-angle site mentioned, but it was all about Arduinos and I couldn't see anything about repurposing a soundcard for tactile feedback purposes.
Reliably fallible.