Best Closed Back Headphones for Monitoring Classical Music

[Bob Bickerton]

Whilst mulling over the 'Hot Ear' thread on headphones, it's got me thinking about a bit of a problem I have when live tracking concerts in certain venues.

Generally the main venue I record in has a bespoke control room and so no problem there, but occasionally I end up having to monitor in the recording space (Cathedral, etc).

When using my open back headphones, bleed from what's in the room becomes a problem and as a consequence I monitor at levels higher than would be my preference.

I prefer not to monitor with my closed back Beyer DT770s as they are not the most accurate.

Anyone using the Neumann NDH20s? Other suggestions?

Bob

[sonics]

I use Sony SRH840. Nice detailed and accurate mid-range and not too expensive. I read that the new version sounds quite similar, but haven't heard them myself.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I prefer my trusty HD25s. Not the most accurate, but excellent isolation and I know what to expect. I also have Sony MDR7509s which are pretty good... but no longer available. Tight bass, revealing midrange. Realistic treble.

[Tim Gillett]

An alternative option might be IEM's in properly made and fitted earmoulds, as used by many onstage performers. My basic and tiny Shure SE 215's have, to my ears the flattest, truest response I've heard in dynamic drivers. Perhaps the very small volume of air inside the ear canals which the drivers have to compress is the reason or part of it.

Another option for standard sized closed back headphones with a lumpy response is of course custom corrective DSP EQ, as used in many high quality active speakers.

[tea for two]

I phoned two hifi stores in expensive parts of London : Bond Street, Kensington, the store in Kensington I spent over 2hours auditioning a number of heaphones in the £1k-£3k.
They didn't have Neumann NDH20.
I had to pronounce it the english way new maaan as when I said it the german way noooiimunn they didn't know wot I woz on aboot.
If they had in stock I'd have toodled down there to audition alongside my rickety plasticy Shure srh440 the original not the later A version.

As it is I can only link to Sam's rather favourable review.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-ndh-20
Being a closed back I'd suggest their Bass would be trifle exaggerated butt with use would recognise compensate for this.

[Bob Bickerton]

Thanks all.

Forgot about the HD25s of which I have a pair, but I find them quite uncomfortable for long listens.

Bob

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes, they are. Had them on for two one-hour concert recording this afternoon. Glad to take them off for the 20 minute interval. But they sound great! Been using them for over 30 years so I know what they do

[Bob Bickerton]

Thanks Hugh - I might try and build up my tolerance!

Bob

[Drew Stephenson]

Have you tried the Rodes? I've not had them on for any long period but them seemed pretty comfy and the isolation was pretty good on my head (which is DT770 shaped. )

[forumuser840717]

Like Hugh, I have HD25s and MDR7509s but also AKG K872s which I think I prefer to either. Though, it's not a slam dunk - familiarity with the HDs and MDRs means that they still get used sometimes.

However, more than any of those, I find myself incresingly using Shure KSE1500* ear buds as I find them cleaner, more neutral, more comfortable and to have better isolation than any of the former. The only downsides are that they cost quite a lot more than most closed back headphones, they need a dedicated amp/energiser pack to work so a bit more kit to carry, not everyone likes having earphones inside their ears (took me a while to come around to them) and it takes ages or trying to work out which set of little rubber tips work best in one's ears. And the difference between the 'right' ones and others is not small but once one finds the best fitting tips, the performance of the earbuds is pretty remarkable.

(*KSE1200s are identical - they use the same actual earphones - only the driver pack differs in not having the DAC and DSP functions of the KSE1500 - no great loss as the DAC is ok but not outstanding, the DSP of debatable use to me at least, and the KSE1200 pack has slightly longer battery life.)

[tea for two]

As it's early Sunday I'm awake at an hour I'm not usually awake at.
Been reading a few of forumuser840717 posts especially enjoyed the post about the World class Cellist asking for C414B-ULS, then being gently moved onto a MC740, just before retiring picked V4U in a blind test.

I forgot about IEM. If IEM don't bother you, they bother me after about 20mins I just have to yank them ooot, then as you have like Senny HD650 sound worth investigating Senny IEM. I can't recall the model Senny IEM I auditioned, I liked it's sound signature for Acoustic instruments it was under £100.

Drew mentioned Rode. I forgot about the Rode NTH100 closed back. I purchased them a fortnight or so earlier. Their ear cups are comfortable.
It's a smidgen on the weighty side at 350g. I liked its sound rather well balanced. I returned them because my preference was is still Shure440 closed original version.

Neumann NDH20 are trifle heavier at 394g without cable. I can put up with somewhat uncomfortable earcups but not with extra heavier.
Audio science review of NDH20 wasn't so favourable.

I prefer earcup material of DT880pro I had just velvety, currently my K702 earcup material is comfortable.
Some on ere foruume find K702 uncomfortable, for me I can listen on them hours in relative comfort.
Preehaps if you like AKG's sound for Choral Classical, shape of AKG cups and headband, then K52 closed backs at quite a low weight 200g won't break the bank.

[adrian_k]

Have you tried the Rodes? I've not had them on for any long period but them seemed pretty comfy and the isolation was pretty good on my head (which is DT770 shaped. )

I bought these some weeks ago. I find them very comfortable and can wear them for long periods, with no heat build up. Isolation is also good for me. At first they seemed heavy compared to my old Sen 250 HD but I soon got used to them. Also at first I noticed the heavy cable, particularly when no audio being played, it transmits sound when knocked it scraped, but I don’t hear that now.

If you are budgetarily challenged they are a great option.

[Chet Leeway]

Have you tried the Rodes? I've not had them on for any long period but them seemed pretty comfy and the isolation was pretty good on my head (which is DT770 shaped. )

I bought these some weeks ago. I find them very comfortable and can wear them for long periods, with no heat build up. Isolation is also good for me. At first they seemed heavy compared to my old Sen 250 HD but I soon got used to them. Also at first I noticed the heavy cable, particularly when no audio being played, it transmits sound when knocked it scraped, but I don’t hear that now.

If you are budgetarily challenged they are a great option.

Make sure you register for the lifetime warranty. Mine broke after 1 year (i.e. within the normal guarantee period), and apparently many users have experience the exact same problem. But since Røde are prepared to back them with a lifetime warranty I figure it may be a faulty batch thing or something they have been able to correct. Anyway, make sure you are covered. The retailer gave me a new pair, and it's working great.

[Hugh Robjohns]

*KSE1200s are identical - they use the same actual earphones - only the driver pack differs in not having the DAC and DSP functions of the KSE1500 - no great loss as the DAC is ok but not outstanding, the DSP of debatable use to me at least, and the KSE1200 pack has slightly longer battery life.

I liked them a lot!

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/shure-kse1200

[adrian_k]

Have you tried the Rodes? I've not had them on for any long period but them seemed pretty comfy and the isolation was pretty good on my head (which is DT770 shaped. )

I bought these some weeks ago. I find them very comfortable and can wear them for long periods, with no heat build up. Isolation is also good for me. At first they seemed heavy compared to my old Sen 250 HD but I soon got used to them. Also at first I noticed the heavy cable, particularly when no audio being played, it transmits sound when knocked it scraped, but I don’t hear that now.

If you are budgetarily challenged they are a great option.

Make sure you register for the lifetime warranty. Mine broke after 1 year (i.e. within the normal guarantee period), and apparently many users have experience the exact same problem. But since Røde are prepared to back them with a lifetime warranty I figure it may be a faulty batch thing or something they have been able to correct. Anyway, make sure you are covered. The retailer gave me a new pair, and it's working great.

Ah - cheers!

[tea for two]

We have kind of similar head face structure wideish.
Ear shape I couldn't say.

I too find Senny not so comfortable.

I guess it’s a compromise. I really liked the sound of the HD650s but found them uncomfortable over longer sessions.

I find AKG comfortable. Preehaps the Closed back K52 worth a gander as they won't break the bank.

Just now went to purchase to audition for the sake of this thread also for my own curiosity AKG K371 closed back : reviews say fairly decent for Acoustic, Orchestral, comfortable.
Scrap that they are apparently way too Bass heevee.

[sonics]

I think a set of IEMs is actually a pretty good way to go if it suits you. For $100-200 there are some really good, neutrally-tuned candidates, and the detail retrieval can be superb. The advantage of being effective at blocking external noise may also be useful.

AKG K52 is simply not suitable. Too odd a curve and not clean enough.

[tea for two]

I think a set of IEMs is actually a pretty good way to go if it suits you. For $100-200 there are some really good, neutrally-tuned candidates, and the detail retrieval can be superb. The advantage of being effective at blocking external noise may also be useful.

AKG K52 is simply not suitable. Too odd a curve and not clean enough.

Apologies Bob

Sonics you are such a tease please mention some specific models for a luddite as me.

I am awaiting delivery of Shure SE215 IEM after Tim Gillet mentioned them on this thread. Although I itch to yank my existing IEM ooot after 20 minutes
Still I want to hear what these Shure can do.

My basic and tiny Shure SE 215's have, to my ears the flattest, truest response I've heard in dynamic drivers.

[sonics]

please mention some specific models for a luddite as me.

Fair enough. I know there is a lot of information on the internet, but very little from anybody but hobbyists it would seem.

The Shures are a great place to start and well respected, although I don't hear them as very flat. Bear in mind all the stuff about different ears, bass seal and tips etc. That's important. Look at Etymotic, too. Of the "millions" of ChiFi brands, look at Truthear for starters. I use those and CCA, but run custom EQ to flatten them.

If you want see what quality of sound you can get for 15 pounds, try the Truthear Hola.

[Sam Spoons]

The point about getting a perfect seal is well made, the difference between a good seal and even the slightest leak is night and day. Be warned even custom moulds don't always seal perfectly, mine last about 10 minutes and then I have to push them in again* but I guess I must have 'unusual' ear canals. They are much more comfortable than any rubber or foam tips/seals I have tried.

If I was still gigging I'd get a new pair as they are about 12 years old but I can't justify the £300 these days

[Tim Gillett]

Yes for good isolation and bass fidelity the seal is important. Even the expensive top line type is only as good as the air seal.

If I was still gigging a lot I'd be getting proper custom moulds.

Interesting that IEM's have been around since the late 80's.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... monitoring

[tea for two]

Shure SE215 IEM arrived.
Listening to Beethoven's 7th symphony I have to push the ear buds in hold them in place to hear a full sound such as the Bassoons, ContraBassoon, else it sounds tinny.
I think this is the precariousness of IEM even more dependant on our particular ear canal shape.
Also as soon as I put the Shure IEM in my ear I wanted to yank them ooot I just find IEM itchy uncomfortable.

With my AKG K702 over ear openbacks, Shure 440 closedback over ear, I can hear the full sound of Beethoven's 7th just by lobbing them over my ears.

I am awaiting delivery of AKG K52 overear closedback. Shall purchase Senny HD215 that Bob and Hugh have with Hugh using them decades. So as I can compare.
One thing with AKG they are not known to be Bass boomy so with closed backs K52 they shouldn't have the Bass boomyness my Shure440 closed have even though I like my Shure440 closed for Bass heeevee stuff.
For my wideish head shape flattish ears I find comfortable AKG big round overear.

[James Perrett]

Shall purchase Senny HD215 that Bob and Hugh have with Hugh using them decades.

Is that a mistype? I'm sure that Bob and Hugh both mentioned the HD25 which are very different to the HD215. I also use HD25s for location recording - they aren't particularly accurate but, once you understand them, they are good for picking up issues while recording.

[tea for two]

Shall purchase Senny HD215 that Bob and Hugh have with Hugh using them decades.

Is that a mistype? I'm sure that Bob and Hugh both mentioned the HD25 which are very different to the HD215.

Phew JP. I would purchased the wrong ones.

I also use HD25s for location recording - they aren't particularly accurate but, once you understand them, they are good for picking up issues while recording.

This will be the useful part for me : picking up issues while recording.

[ore_terra]

I second HD25 reccomendation.

Nowadays I use moulded IEM for monitoring because I have no control room in my studio and with the IEM’s I’m 95% as if I had one.

Years ago, no studio and only location recordings. Never made a decision on the HD25’s that I had to regret later at mixing. Never dialed a guitar tone that I wasnt happy about at mixing, etc.