Anyone tried the latest version of Guitar Rig?

[SecretSam]

That's Guitar Rig 7 Pro.

After a long hiatus, they did a couple of rapid updates.

I don't see much about it these days. Compared with current modeller boxes (Pod go, Boss gx100, HX Stomp), how does it fare?

[resistorman]

I use it fairly often for "re-amping" tracks, works great, even on tracks other than electric guitar or bass.

[ManFromGlass]

After not using an older version for years I rediscovered it last week. Some super cool patches in there!
I’ll have to check what the latest version has to offer!

[Dynamic Mike]

Not used guitar rig in a long time. However if anyone is considering Line6 Pod Go the latest update to V.2 firmware is incredible. All new cabs and IR's (although previous ones are still available as legacy options) and unlike previous updates which were just more stuff of the same quality, these are like night and day!

Pod Go is never going to have Helix versatility for obvious reasons but this can't be far off in actual quality.

[SecretSam]

Thanks Gents. Sounds like it's worth a go.

My use case is partly having a new toy to arse around with, and partly to put on a laptop if I get a lot of work travelling this year.

[The Elf]

Don't forget that with a Helix you can also add the VST version, and swap patches between them. That means you have both a hardware and software version of your rig.

[SecretSam]

Tempting. I'll look in the piggy bank. Maybe if I get a decent bonus.

[BigRedX]

Don't forget that with a Helix you can also add the VST version, and swap patches between them. That means you have both a hardware and software version of your rig.

Also with the Helix you can record both the effected output and the direct signal. That way I can put down a guitar or bass track with the sound I think the song needs and also a clean signal that I can apply the helix Native plug-in to in case we need to make changes during the mix. Saves having to re-record any of my parts unless I actually want to change the notes I played.

[SecretSam]

Paul Kinnel*.

Those gadgets aren't cheap. As a travel companion, the Helix Native looks interesting.

On the hardware side, what is the best bang for buck? The Stomp doesn't have enough buttons for gigging, and the 99 octane version might be a bit overkill until I get the call from Beyonce's musical director. I get the impression that Native doesn't go with the, er, Go.

For gigging, I am not bothered about amp sims, thanks to the tiny yet perfect Quilter Superblock. Would the combination of Helix Native and HX FX make any sense?

*Say it out loud in a Cockney accent to get the intended effect.

[BigRedX]

I went with the full version of the Helix on the premise that if I went for one of the lesser models, I would find something that I needed that only the top of the range version did within 12 months of buying it. And I was right.

And while it is expensive I was able to replace my complete bass and guitar rigs with a Helix and an RCF powered cab. I had originally spent much more on the items being replaced even though many of them had been bought second-hand and some over 10 years previously, and when I sold both rigs I made slightly more than new price of the Helix and RCF combined.

Also in real terms the Helix was considerably cheaper than my first multi-effects unit, a Roland GP8 plus foot controller and expression pedal which only did a fraction of what I can now do with the Helix.

Edit:once you have one of the Line6 HX devices you can buy Helix Native for a reduced price, and Line6 often do sale prices on the software. IIRC I paid less than £70 for the plug-in version.

[The Elf]

The Stomp doesn't have enough buttons for gigging...

How about the Stomp XL?

Would the combination of Helix Native and HX FX make any sense?

I think you can swap patches between HX FX and Native (using HX Edit as an intermediary), but there will be caveats, since FX doesn't have some of the Helix's blocks, such as amps and cabs. I don't have an HX FX to comfirm one way or the other, so please don't take anything I'm saying here as the truth. I do know you can trade patches between Helix, Stomp XL and Native (again, with caveats and restrictions), because that's how I do things - beyond that I'm guessing, based on a couple of quick searches.

Please do some homework first if this is your plan. Maybe ask a few HX FX users on the Line 6 forum.

P.S. There is (or was), I believe, a trial download of Helix Native, so you could at least see what you think of it.

[SecretSam]

Thanks Elf and BRX

I guess this is why we haunt forums: I started musing about spending US$80 on some software, and am now researching US$1500 modellers. GAS, eh?

On the one hand, Guitar Rig or Helix Native would be useful for guitar practice when travelling. On the other hand, Helix Native costs about US$400 unless you buy some Helix hardware first, so we get into the question: which hardware?

Having spent yesterday evening on yoo toob, I came to the following conclusions:

HX FX does not seem to have an interface as intuitive as the old M9 and M13, which had about a ten minute learning curve. The HX Stomp XL's interface makes more sense to me than the HX FX's. The Stomp XL has the same number of blocks as the FX, and also gives you the option of amp sims, which might make it a useful travel companion without a computer, and also a back-up in case a proper amp goes tits-up at the wrong time (although that has only ever happened to me twice in 40-odd years of playing).

The Pod Go is attractive, but a bit plasticky, and now that we are 20+ years into modelling, I wish it had parallel routing for bass, and a bit more freedom in block selection. It doesn't seem part of the ecosystem that contains Helix Native, though; and as a stand-alone unit, the Boss GX100 seems a lot more capable and physically robust for similar money.

I had thought that there might be an option of using something like the Stomp, and then plug-in in a set of MIDI footswitches when required. But for what the footswitches cost, you might as well buy a modeller with more switches in the first place.

For live playing, all of the above would be compromises compared to my current bass rig, where I have 16 foot switches, all of which get used, because I play lots of improvised music rather than scroling through a pre-set playlist of fully-scripted tunes. Having less stuff to carry has obvious appeal, though.

(Current rig: pedals for pitch, compression, boost/eq and distortion/drive, an M9 multi-fx for filters, modulation and tuning, and a separate looper because I don't want to be thinking about mode switching while playing. There's also an Aphex bass exciter at the end of the chain for when using a small amp).

The Stomp XL would be workable, because of the way the scrolling works (I would probably keep the compression, looping and pitch on separate pedals anyway).

The Helix LT looks like a good solution, but now we are up to US$1000 and it's physically quite big, so by the time it is flight cased it doesn't look much easier to transport than my current boards. You could argue that it saves carrying an amp, but that's only true if you are happy to go through whatever monitoring comes with the PA. Or if you want to use IEMs, which opens a whole other can of worms.

The full-fat Helix is obviously the pro option for good reason. I'd guess it's tax-deductible for the Elf :- ).

In the US$1000 to 1500 range, the Headrush stuff looks interesting. The Core has a limited number of switches, so would probably suit studio use or a covers band. The Prime would probably work for me, but is big and expensive. Hm.

Around US$500, the Boss GX100 seems impressive in terms of processing blocks, routing and metal construction, but then you don't get the interoperability between a software and a hardware solution. The presets sound typically Boss to me: almost like they have a slight formant filter on them whether you want it or not, and awash in cheesy chorus and reverb. However, you can dial that out. People whine about Line 6 stuff needing specific power supplies, but then the GX100 needs a 1200 mA supply, so who's whining now?

So balancing cost, size, travel-ability, interoperability, back-up potential, adequate UI, usable for both guitar and bass ... looks like the Stomp XL + Native might be the sweet spot and would be a logical upgrade from the M9.

Or maybe just get the NI Guitar Rig software for now and add a GX100 in due course.

Remind me why I don't just learn to play the flute?

[Wonks]

Remind me why I don't just learn to play the flute?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/muramatsu_ds_ ... d_source=1

[Dynamic Mike]

The Pod Go is pretty solidly built in the flesh and great for practice and travel. There's an unsupported fudge that gives you total freedom in placing the blocks but you will run out of DSP eventually. If you don't need amp and cab sims in the chain you'd probably never hit the limit though. But it's not part of the Helix family even though it shares features and that's reflected in the price. For live playing switching between snapshots is seamless but not so between presets. I love it but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for with no Native integration although you still get offered Helix discounts and offers once you register it.

[SecretSam]

Remind me why I don't just learn to play the flute?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/muramatsu_ds_ ... d_source=1

A good point, persuasively made.

[Wonks]

Remind me why I don't just learn to play the flute?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/muramatsu_ds_ ... d_source=1

A good point, persuasively made.

And it doesn’t even have a sunburst finish!

[SecretSam]

The Pod Go is pretty solidly built in the flesh and great for practice and travel. There's an unsupported fudge that gives you total freedom in placing the blocks but you will run out of DSP eventually. If you don't need amp and cab sims in the chain you'd probably never hit the limit though. But it's not part of the Helix family even though it shares features and that's reflected in the price. For live playing switching between snapshots is seamless but not so between presets. I love it but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for with no Native integration although you still get offered Helix discounts and offers once you register it.

If I used external drive and looper that might work. Beats me why they hard-coded the wah and the volume pedal.

I like the form factor and the UI.

I wonder whether it is due for an update?

Do you happen to have a link to the unsupported fudge? Freeing up a couple of blocks would make a lot of difference.

[BigRedX]

Regarding the device interfaces of the HX/Helix models, I only do fine tuning in the rehearsal room using them. All the main programming is done via the HX Edit application.

[Sam Spoons]

Remind me why I don't just learn to play the flute?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/muramatsu_ds_ ... d_source=1

A good point, persuasively made.

And it doesn’t even have a sunburst finish!

So it's more Zematis than Gibson then?

[BigRedX]

The Pod Go is pretty solidly built in the flesh and great for practice and travel. There's an unsupported fudge that gives you total freedom in placing the blocks but you will run out of DSP eventually. If you don't need amp and cab sims in the chain you'd probably never hit the limit though. But it's not part of the Helix family even though it shares features and that's reflected in the price. For live playing switching between snapshots is seamless but not so between presets. I love it but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for with no Native integration although you still get offered Helix discounts and offers once you register it.

The Helix is the same regarding switching between Presets, but using Snapshots is seamless. Initially using snapshots required a bit of time to get my head around and some additional work with the programming, but now it's second nature, and I've yet to to run out of Snapshot parameters - there's a limit to how many parameters can be altered using Snapshots in a Preset.

Having said that the Helix still isn't prefect (although for me it's still better than the competition). I'd like to see some gates and filters with MIDI triggering options, and more flexibility in footswitch assignments, but I realise that in this respect I'm very much in the minority.

[SecretSam]

I think I would do the same (although tweaking the M9 live is quite easy).

I do like to choose FX based on where the band is going, though, so I am looking for a quick and reliable way to do something on the fly like: "Let's give it some distortion to chew on, then put it through a pair of filters".

(This was a response to BRX's post about UI. Overtaken by events!)

[Dynamic Mike]

I'm not home right now but I think the link is discussed on the pod go forum. I'll post it tonight.

[SecretSam]

Found it! Thanks, Mike.

[BigRedX]

I think I would do the same (although tweaking the M9 live is quite easy).

I do like to choose FX based on where the band is going, though, so I am looking for a quick and reliable way to do something on the fly like: "Let's give it some distortion to chew on, then put it through a pair of filters".

(This was a response to BRX's post about UI. Overtaken by events!)

You would probably want to use your chosen Helix/HX device in stomp mode, with all the effects that you want set up as a Preset. This allows you to switch each effect on and off as if they were traditional effects units on a pedal board.

I have no idea how effective this is as my Helix is set up with 4 Presets and 4 Snapshots to view and controlled from the computer that runs our drum backing track with one Preset for each song and as many Snapshots as required for the changes in the each song. So far I've not needed more than 4 in any song.

[SecretSam]

Yup. That's how I use my M9.

They got a lot right with that series.

A UI with at least 6 switches for stomp mode should be usable. More than that would be better.