ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
My original post here was not to bandy words about audiophile vinyl setups but to say that maybe the renewed interest can attract people away from low bit streams and buds.
It may indeed help foster a renewed interest in the stereo format as it was intended and quality hifi setups in general. We can certainly agree on that.
Then vinyl is a horribly inefficient way to store sound....
Possibly... although I doubt its energy and resources consumption is that significant compared to clothing and food packaging etc etc.
And there are a lot of processes and chemicals involved in making the NAND flash memory and microcontroller chips before they're encased in plastic! Plus, they have a limited life span...
As you say, the record format (needle wiggling in a groove) is the only one so far proven to remain obustly playable after 100 years. Can't say that about SD cards, or CDs or DAT tapes or even analogue magnetic tape (although stuff from the 50s and 60s is doing okay so far...). NASA had good reasons to include a gold microgroove record on the Voyager missions!
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
Then vinyl is a horribly inefficient way to store sound. The plastic and energy used to make just one disc could make how many SD cards? (yes! I AM aware that they are different plastics but ergs is ergs!) The replay system also uses a lot of metal and energy.
My LP's have stored sound for 40+ years consuming zero energy in the process. Surely streaming is the most environmentally damaging format. Huge amounts of energy are required to cool servers storing billions of tracks and that nobody will ever listen to. Many of us even have long abandoned projects backed up to the cloud that even we will never access again. We've become digital hoarders of useless data that will outlive us serving no useful purpose despite consuming huge amounts of energy.
ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
Then vinyl is a horribly inefficient way to store sound. The plastic and energy used to make just one disc could make how many SD cards? (yes! I AM aware that they are different plastics but ergs is ergs!) The replay system also uses a lot of metal and energy.
My LP's have stored sound for 40+ years consuming zero energy in the process. Surely streaming is the most environmentally damaging format. Huge amounts of energy are required to cool servers storing billions of tracks and that nobody will ever listen to. Many of us even have long abandoned projects backed up to the cloud that even we will never access again. We've become digital hoarders of useless data that will outlive us serving no useful purpose despite consuming huge amounts of energy.
Yes Mike that is fair, what's done is done and I do take the point that vinyl is but a tiny drop in the pollution ocean but every little helps! I got my last job because I was 'valves smarter' than the young bucks that applied but I recognise that they are very inefficient and toxic devices.
To address the point about being moved by music on 'low fi' systems? Of course I am! I regularly sit in my car when I arrive home and listen to the finish of some well loved piece even though my 2008 Megane* is certainly inferior to my home system. I could even enjoy certain pieces on a pretty grotty DAB radio because the source would almost certainly be digital or CD and thus have no wow! But! The professional here know only too well that almost all commercial recordings are edited to remove fluffs and accidental noises because we can forgive these things once in a live performance but a click that comes around with deadly certainty destroys 'the mood' for me.
The data farms are of great concern and we should avoid cloud storage where we can. Massive hard drives are very cheap. Totally OT but moot. Bitcoin is gobbling up terawatts and growing steadily.
I must thank Tacitus' post on this thread for jogging my memory.
The magic of vinyl for me is in windup gramophone playing those chunky 78s with needles that are more as nails for wood working lol.
I realised this for myself when for the first time in my life early last year I wound up such a portable gramophone played some 78s.
tea for two wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:47 pm
I must thank Tacitus' post on this thread for jogging my memory.
The magic of vinyl for me is in windup gramophone playing those chunky 78s with needles that are more as nails for wood working lol.
I realised this for myself when for the first time in my life early last year I wound up such a portable gramophone played some 78s.
When I was a lad there were two things I looked out for on Dustbin Day. Old Wireless relay speakers and wind up gramophones. The latter had a really powerful clockwork motor in them which could power all sorts of gadgets my mate and I built with his Meccano kit. The speakers were Stentorian units with doped cloth suspension and a big improvement on the elliptical in my Philips tape recorder. But we did not get close to real bass until dad built me a corner reflex cabinet for a Wharfedale 12" twin cone driver. I still have the cab and driver but unfortunately the VC rubs now but must over 60 years old now!
ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
My original post here was not to bandy words about audiophile vinyl setups but to say that maybe the renewed interest can attract people away from low bit streams and buds.
You mentioned that before, but many (or even most) younger listeners are using very good-sounding earbuds, IEMs and headphones, and the quality of streaming services is either excellent or lossless, in general. These are not bad MP3s being played back through market stall earbuds any more.
What would they gain by using an expensive, complicated stereo system that can't travel around with them?
ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
My original post here was not to bandy words about audiophile vinyl setups but to say that maybe the renewed interest can attract people away from low bit streams and buds.
You mentioned that before, but many (or even most) younger listeners are using very good-sounding earbuds, IEMs and headphones, and the quality of streaming services is either excellent or lossless, in general. These are not bad MP3s being played back through market stall earbuds any more.
What would they gain by using an expensive, complicated stereo system that can't travel around with them?
OK, give that the sources and buds are probably better than I suggested but one thing is 'wrong' you cannot get proper stereo on headphones. I dare say it does not matter for the artificial, pan-potted pap SORRY! Pop most of them listen to but think of all that effort the monitor manufacturers put in that gets reported by Phil Ward about "pin sharp imaging"? Might be quite a revelation for some of them!
With regard to "mobile vinyl"? I installed at least two 45rpm players in cars. Philips made them and no one was more surprised than I when I found out they worked even over quite rough ground! Seem to recall the tracking force was in excess of 20 grams!
tea for two wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:47 pm
I must thank Tacitus' post on this thread for jogging my memory.
The magic of vinyl for me is in windup gramophone playing those chunky 78s with needles that are more as nails for wood working lol.
I realised this for myself when for the first time in my life early last year I wound up such a portable gramophone played some 78s.
When I was a lad there were two things I looked out for on Dustbin Day. Old Wireless relay speakers and wind up gramophones. The latter had a really powerful clockwork motor in them which could power all sorts of gadgets my mate and I built with his Meccano kit. The speakers were Stentorian units with doped cloth suspension and a big improvement on the elliptical in my Philips tape recorder. But we did not get close to real bass until dad built me a corner reflex cabinet for a Wharfedale 12" twin cone driver. I still have the cab and driver but unfortunately the VC rubs now but must over 60 years old now!
Dave.
These are wonderful recollections Ef37a. I recall similar from my side although not audio related.
Though my family say when I was 5 I took apart our portable radio put it back together fully working. I have zero recollection of this. I don't know how I would have had the strength to undo the screws as a 5year nipper. My major interest lay elsewhere, else I suppose I would have pursued an electronics career.
Last edited by tea for two on Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
ef37a wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:27 am
My original post here was not to bandy words about audiophile vinyl setups but to say that maybe the renewed interest can attract people away from low bit streams and buds.
You mentioned that before, but many (or even most) younger listeners are using very good-sounding earbuds, IEMs and headphones, and the quality of streaming services is either excellent or lossless, in general. These are not bad MP3s being played back through market stall earbuds any more.
What would they gain by using an expensive, complicated stereo system that can't travel around with them?
Why do people have to have music playing everywhere they go? its a trend thats unnecessary and devalues the listening experience, it's not special anymore.
Looking at phones, earbuds stuck in, no wonder social skills are going down the drain.
I suppose I’d better ad a smiley,
Arpangel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:18 am
Why do people have to have music playing everywhere they go?
It helps to mask the noise of modern life and, unlike our experience, is now effectively infinite in supply. I was quite shocked to discover that some people use IEMs almost all day, including when sleeping.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Arpangel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:18 am
Why do people have to have music playing everywhere they go? its a trend thats unnecessary and devalues the listening experience, it's not special anymore.
Looking at phones, earbuds stuck in, no wonder social skills are going down the drain.
I suppose I’d better ad a smiley,
I'd question whether all those wearing earbuds are listening to music. Podcasts, audio books etc are popular too.
There's far more competition for music when it comes to leisure time in the home. So maybe music is getting pushed away from that environment?
But we've had music on the move for decades. It's the screen and access to 'anything, anywhere, any time' that is the 'new' phenomenon.
Still, very much with you on the negative social impact of zombies walking around staring at their phones with ears sealed off from the world.
Matt Houghton wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:47 am
Still, very much with you on the negative social impact of zombies walking around staring at their phones with ears sealed off from the world.
Yes, also, once upon a time it was sit your kids in front of the telly to keep them quiet, now they just shove a phone or a tablet in their hands.
I will confess I have R3 in the background when 'doing me emails' but generally avoid "Musak". I have either R3 or R4 on in the car but am very selective, prefer nothing to 'squeaky gate' music.
My son never listens to music unless it is to the exclusion of everything else, or he is actually playing or learning a piece.
Same here... but if I'm not playing my own music collection its usually Radio3 — and I'm averaging buying one new CD every month for something heard on R3.
More contemporary music purchases are mostly inspired by friends and colleagues, or often demo tracks used by manufacturers. A visit to PMC always results in a stack of new CDs...
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
ef37a wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:54 pm
My son never listens to music unless it is to the exclusion of everything else, or he is actually playing or learning a piece.
Dave.
I'm pretty much with your son on this. I find I tend to focus on the music usually losing concentration on anything else. I don't know how people can listen to music and read at the same time. It's a skill I just don't have.
I bet he turns the TV off when he has guests too. I can't abide people who don't, it just seems rude to me.
Hugh Robjohns wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:50 pm
Same here... but if I'm not playing my own music collection its usually Radio3 — and I'm averaging buying one new CD every month for something heard on R3.
More contemporary music purchases are mostly inspired by friends and colleagues, or often demo tracks used by manufacturers. A visit to PMC always results in a stack of new CDs...
It's Classic FM here Hugh, sorry to lower the tone.
Although I was played on R3, so is my CD now residing on your shelves?
I've got a notebook near the radio, if anything comes on I find interesting it gets noted.
I normally start with Jazz FM, if nothings going on there it's Radio 3, still nothing doing it's Classic FM, followed by Radio 6 Music, if I'm in London I'm permanently tuned to Resonance FM, or Resonance Extra.
