Have a huge room. Need studio building advice!

[itsnoahwolf]

Hello SOS fam!
I'm in the planning phases to turn a very large room in my house into a recording studio. This room used to be an old grocery store in the early 1900s and the rest of the house was a built onto it later.
It is 26' wide, just close to 40' long with a 12' high ceiling. The room has no soundproofing at all which is my first task I hope to accomplish.

I'm not sure if my plan is any good, and I've only come up with these ideas based on the research I have done on acoustics and studio construction, but I am no expert and want to make sure to do it right with no surprises. This is my plan as I have been thinking about doing this, but I don't want to mess this up. I understand there might be a lot of things I haven't considered which is why I'm seeking advice.

My hope is to turn this large space into a single room studio that can be used as an all-in-one scenario for tracking, mixing and mastering, as well as a space to record/video full live bands without dividing it into smaller rooms. I've heard that acoustics like large spaces so I initially thought to keep the room as large as I can.

One major issue with this room is it's right off of a busy town highway. Lots of cars and semis. The initial walls in the room are already quite sturdy, the main sound issues come from the large windows at the end of the room which I plan on sectioning off as storage and an emergency exit hallway with a staggered stud wall.

Onto my initial thoughts for construction:

- For the walls, I had thought to build staggered stud walls with sound board weaved in between the staggered studs and then pack the external side with denim sound absorbing insulation leaving at least a 3-4 inch air gap between the original walls and the new staggered stud wall. The interior wall of the studio would be packed with rock wool. (Unless denim or fiberglass insulation makes for good absorption?) The finished walls would act as absorption in the room.
To add some more mass to the wall I had the thought to attach a layer or a few to the back side of the walls between the air gap and denim insulation before standing the wall into its position. The walls would float on the floor soundproofing, tied together by the ceiling joists rather than being anchored down to the floor.

- To treat the floor, I had thought of using 3/4 inch thick rubber stall mats as the first layer, (normal rubber underlayment was waaaay too expensive for my budget...) with 2 layers of plywood brick layered together with green glue for a large seamless floor as the second layer, with the last layers being my laminate click together flooring which I currently have ready to go and the underlayment foam that goes beneath that.

- For the ceiling, I want to decouple the new ceiling from the original room ceiling without hanging or anchoring it to the original. I have to span 26 feet from the left wall to the right wall but I don't want to lose a lot of height in the room, so I thought to do exposed ceiling joists with my ceiling absorption/diffusion built and anchored between them.
I'd like to avoid any support posts in the middle of the room so I figure I'll have to use some pretty deep ceiling joists such as wooden I joists. Especially since I plan to hang acoustic clouds above my workstation.

I'm not looking for a perfectly isolated room as I have no budget for perfection whatsoever. I'm hoping to at least get it to where any noisy traffic won't interfere with recording but if there's a little bass rumble from semis I can live with that. I've been working in a much noisier room for years now and have been happy with my product. My main goal is to get decent results and not break the bank too much.

So that is the basic plan I've thought of to soundproof the room, sealing any cracks or gaps with green glue, using isolated double doors and trying to make the room as airtight as possible prior to additional diffusion/absorption as needed. These ideas came from learning from friends who are in professional construction/remodeling and YouTube series of people building professional recording studios. Any feedback/advice would be tremendously appreciated. Many thanks!

[Sam Inglis]

Sounds like the space has a lot of potential! Can I ask what the existing floor is made of? If it's concrete, cement or similar, then fitting a floating floor usually offers little benefit either for isolation or acoustic treatment. You're better off keeping it as is and using that part of the budget elsewhere.

[itsnoahwolf]

Sounds like the space has a lot of potential! Can I ask what the existing floor is made of? If it's concrete, cement or similar, then fitting a floating floor usually offers little benefit either for isolation or acoustic treatment. You're better off keeping it as is and using that part of the budget elsewhere.

The floor is a few layers wood with tile on top. There's a large basement under the entirety of the room. (Have to duck your head though!) When semis pass by you can feel the whole floor vibrate haha!
*Update* I realized I missed a detail in the post. I want to add some mass to the new inner walls with a layer or 2 of drywall on the backside so that it's facing the original wall with the air gap in between.

[Sam Spoons]

Without professional advice I'd say you are pretty much on it. But I think getting some would be well worth the cost.

I agree with your decision to keep it all one room, the value of a separate control room is limited for most home studios, even big ones like yours.

WRT keeping hight you could consider a couple or three exposed cross beams then span the gaps above with normal joists at the usual 16" centres and plasterboard/drywall rather than having the depth of the main beams reducing the internal hight.

With a 3"-4" between the building walls and the studio walls you will have no access to the gap once built. Given the size of the room you could afford the luxury of a walk space in there so I would consider making the gap big enough to walk through on at least two of the walls. If your walls are 6" thick and you have a 3" space you will lose 18" off the size of the room, by allowing an 18" walk space on all sides you lose 48" so your remaining room is still 36 x 22 ft (instead of 38' 6" x 24' 6").

Also consider ventilation, you will need some.

[itsnoahwolf]

Without professional advice I'd say you are pretty much on it. But I think getting some would be well worth the cost.

I agree with your decision to keep it all one room, the value of a separate control room is limited for most home studios, even big ones like yours.

WRT keeping hight you could consider a couple or three exposed cross beams then span the gaps above with normal joists at the usual 16" centres and plasterboard/drywall rather than having the depth of the main beams reducing the internal hight.

With a 3"-4" between the building walls and the studio walls you will have no access to the gap once built. Given the size of the room you could afford the luxury of a walk space in there so I would consider making the gap big enough to walk through on at least two of the walls. If your walls are 6" thick and you have a 3" space you will lose 18" off the size of the room, by allowing an 18" walk space on all sides you lose 48" so your remaining room is still 36 x 22 ft (instead of 38' 6" x 24' 6").

Also consider ventilation, you will need some.

That all sounds very good. I have indeed considered seeking some professional design advice.

So you mean to run the exposed cross beams from the left to right wall and then run the (probably 2x6) ceiling joists the long way across those? I like that idea. Anything I can do to keep my ceiling nice and high! I'm also considering doing something like a sawtooth design running from the workstation to the back of the room on the ceiling to decouple it from the floor.

I did give some thought to making a narrow walkway around the inner studio room. That could also double for excellent storage space and easy wire/cable management. In a large room like this I don't think that'd affect my acoustics too much.

Yes HVAC is of extreme importance. I'm thinking of going the route of a ductless mini split system along with an air exchanger in parallel to that. For heat though I like the idea of putting a furnace in the basement and have my ventilation come up from the floor with baffle boxes under the floor, so that the heat can rise. Currently debating/researching which will be a better option.

Thank you so much for the pointers!!

[James Perrett]

I think you need to have a professional surveyor come and check your floor before you go any further. Anything you build will have a fairly substantial mass if it is to have any effect on sound transmission - there's no point in doing it otherwise. Your floor has to be able to cope with that extra mass.

I had the same issue with in a Victorian house where I converted the old lounge into a studio. Fortunately the surveyor said that there was sufficient additional support in the middle of the joist span to cope with the weight - the building had a basement but it didn't extend to under the lounge. With a basement, you won't have that extra support so you may need some kind of additional strengthening to the floor.

I don't really agree with Sam about making the gap between your existing wall and new wall larger - if you design things sensibly there is no reason to ever need access. One thing I would suggest is that you consider angling some of the walls so that you don't have all the walls parallel. Not only will this improve the acoustics but it will also create spaces for storage and noisy computers.

My suggestion would be to have drywall on the inside of the new wall, acoustic slab between the studs and then acoustic treatment on the inside of the drywall. The larger gap between the existing wall and the new drywall will help reduce the sound transmission. The standard suggestion is to use multiple layers of drywall - in the UK we would use a base layer of 19mm plasterboard planks, with a layer of 12mm acoustic plasterboard on top of that. If you want better attenuation you could use 15mm acoustic plasterboard as an extra layer too. You would also want something like Green Glue between the layers.

[itsnoahwolf]

I think you need to have a professional surveyor come and check your floor before you go any further. Anything you build will have a fairly substantial mass if it is to have any effect on sound transmission - there's no point in doing it otherwise. Your floor has to be able to cope with that extra mass.

I had the same issue with in a Victorian house where I converted the old lounge into a studio. Fortunately the surveyor said that there was sufficient additional support in the middle of the joist span to cope with the weight - the building had a basement but it didn't extend to under the lounge. With a basement, you won't have that extra support so you may need some kind of additional strengthening to the floor.

I don't really agree with Sam about making the gap between your existing wall and new wall larger - if you design things sensibly there is no reason to ever need access. One thing I would suggest is that you consider angling some of the walls so that you don't have all the walls parallel. Not only will this improve the acoustics but it will also create spaces for storage and noisy computers.

My suggestion would be to have drywall on the inside of the new wall, acoustic slab between the studs and then acoustic treatment on the inside of the drywall. The larger gap between the existing wall and the new drywall will help reduce the sound transmission. The standard suggestion is to use multiple layers of drywall - in the UK we would use a base layer of 19mm plasterboard planks, with a layer of 12mm acoustic plasterboard on top of that. If you want better attenuation you could use 15mm acoustic plasterboard as an extra layer too. You would also want something like Green Glue between the layers.

I will give that thorough consideration. The floor joists underneath in the basement are very heavy duty old fashioned 2x10s. The walls in the basement are old cobblestone walls probably about 2 feet thick. I believe there is room for the new walls to rest on the actual basement walls. If not though, my plan is to add some more jackposts beneath whatever I build to support the additions, but I'll have my construction friends take a look at it and get their opinions.

One producer I follow on YouTube who build his own studio did something very similar as far as drywall. My hope was to put drywall on the backside of the new wall so that the insulation on the inside of the new wall could act as my absorption for the studio if possible. Mass is key though for sure.

I thought of doing angles walls, though I've heard this can sometimes cause acoustic issues? Not certain on that though. I've heard it's just easier to control a rectangular room and get more space out of it, though I believe a room with angled walls requires less treatment. I do want to be able to control the liveliness of the room with some movable diffusion/absorption panels to tweak how the room sounds for given situations. I plan on having a few angles on the front wall behind the control desk to decouple it from the back wall as seen in many recording studios.

Thank you so much for the tips!!

[James Perrett]

My hope was to put drywall on the backside of the new wall so that the insulation on the inside of the new wall could act as my absorption for the studio if possible. Mass is key though for sure.

The problem is that this gives you a much smaller air gap - the normal advice is to have an air gap of 100mm (4") or more between inner and outer leaves for best sound reduction.

I would also say that you don't want your wall covered 100% with insulation unless you are going for an anechoic chamber.

[Sam Spoons]

I don't really agree with Sam about making the gap between your existing wall and new wall larger - if you design things sensibly there is no reason to ever need access.

I was in two minds whether to make the suggestion (I agree that it shouldn't be necessary to access the space) and if the room was significantly smaller than it is I wouldn't have done so. However given the size of the room I though a walk space was worth considering.

[itsnoahwolf]

My hope was to put drywall on the backside of the new wall so that the insulation on the inside of the new wall could act as my absorption for the studio if possible. Mass is key though for sure.

The problem is that this gives you a much smaller air gap - the normal advice is to have an air gap of 100mm (4") or more between inner and outer leaves for best sound reduction.

I would also say that you don't want your wall covered 100% with insulation unless you are going for an anechoic chamber.

Also true. I forgot to mention I plan on lining the inner most wall with fabric then with solid wood (most likely pallet wood) with slots in between each piece to get the right balance between reflection and absorption. If I were to do it this way I would build the wall (10 foot wide sections or so) with drywall on the backside and then stand it up so that there's still a 4 inch gap.

[Drew Stephenson]

Any chance of a diagram of your proposed wall construction please? I'm struggling to follow the set-up.
My concern is that what you're really after is a mass-air-mass construction (including the outer wall) and it sounds like you're heading towards a mass-air-mass-air-mass construction, which is a less efficient way of doing things.

Also definitely second the suggestion about getting a professional in both to check your designs and to check the floor structure. Both from a strength and a resonance perspective.

[itsnoahwolf]

Any chance of a diagram of your proposed wall construction please? I'm struggling to follow the set-up.
My concern is that what you're really after is a mass-air-mass construction (including the outer wall) and it sounds like you're heading towards a mass-air-mass-air-mass construction, which is a less efficient way of doing things.

Also definitely second the suggestion about getting a professional in both to check your designs and to check the floor structure. Both from a strength and a resonance perspective.

Here's a rough sketch diagram of my wall design I thought of. Im not actually sure how to share photos on here so hopefully this works.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FH4No- ... share_link

My hope was to put the drywall on the backside of the new inner wall with a 4 inch gap between the drywall and the original wall. My hope in doing so was to cut cost on additional insulation for absorption and thought it might be possible to do this with a staggered stud wall with acoustic dampening board weaved through the 2x4s and insulation on both sides of the acoustic board.

-On the side view, we see the drywall facing the original wall with a 4 inch gap in between.

-On the top view, we see the staggered stud layout, 24" on center staggered, with the soundboard weaved in between and 1 layer of insulation on either side of the board.

-On the front view, we see the black mesh fabric covering the absorption insulation and then pallet wood acting as a reflector with slots in between each piece to allow absorption. Any additional diffusion and absorption panels as needed would be placed over the pallet wood with a 3 to 4 inch spacing away from the walls.

One producer I follow who built his own studio did the more traditional approach with a layer of insulation in the original wall, 3 inch gap, another framed wall with more insulation and then 2 layers of drywall sealed with green glue. Then he built his acoustic treatment over the drywall as needed. I personally wanted my studio lined with solid wood as I much prefer the tone of wood to drywall and have heard it's very good for acoustics. I thought I'd save some cash by using the insulation already in the wall as absorption with the wood acting as reflection. Not sure if it works acoustically though. I also prefer a dryer sounding space than a more lively sounding space, but obviously I don't want it to sound completely dead. I plan on having reflective panels hanging on a track to position around the studio to add liveliness to the room if needed.

[zenguitar]

Could I suggest that you look closely at your plans and cost them right now.

We are always optimistic when we work out costs. Sometimes we underestimate how much material we need, then we have to make allowances for mistakes, and contingencies for the things we didn't realise we needed until we came up against the unanticipated problems.

So take your costings and add between 50% and 100%. This is probably what you will need to spend.

This will be a big number. Look at it, think about how hard you have worked to save or what it is costing you to borrow.

Now imagine how you would feel after spending all that money only to discover that it wasn't working how you planned. The room doesn't sound how you anticipated, and the soundproofing efforts have failed completely.

That is why you need an acoustician on board. It is incredibly easy to spend a LOT of money on building a studio and end up seeing little or no benefit because of a misunderstanding, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

A good acoustician will be realistic about what can be achieved with your budget. But will also be able to get the basics right first time and give you a plan to follow over the next year or two to add the little extras as time and finances allow.

Andy

[itsnoahwolf]

Could I suggest that you look closely at your plans and cost them right now.

We are always optimistic when we work out costs. Sometimes we underestimate how much material we need, then we have to make allowances for mistakes, and contingencies for the things we didn't realise we needed until we came up against the unanticipated problems.

So take your costings and add between 50% and 100%. This is probably what you will need to spend.

This will be a big number. Look at it, think about how hard you have worked to save or what it is costing you to borrow.

Now imagine how you would feel after spending all that money only to discover that it wasn't working how you planned. The room doesn't sound how you anticipated, and the soundproofing efforts have failed completely.

That is why you need an acoustician on board. It is incredibly easy to spend a LOT of money on building a studio and end up seeing little or no benefit because of a misunderstanding, a mistake, or a wrong assumption.

A good acoustician will be realistic about what can be achieved with your budget. But will also be able to get the basics right first time and give you a plan to follow over the next year or two to add the little extras as time and finances allow.

Andy

Definitely. I'll have to see if I can find anyone in my area. I live in Wisconsin and don't know of anyone who designs studios or is an acoustician. It sounds like the best thing to do since I'm not an expert, but I'm also curious to hear from others who have built their own spaces and see what I can learn.
Thanks for the advice!!

[The Red Bladder]

Before you do ANYTHING, get a copy of this book - https://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-S ... 145&sr=8-1

It sounds very much as if you are going to have to build a room-within-a-room and that will cost money - so AFTER you have read that book (and others - and talk to other studio owners) you set out a plan and then set out a realistic budget.

Before you blow $s on an acoustician, ask for references for projects for recording studios that person has completed.

The floor will be a problem (it seems to be vibrating in sympathy to outside truck noises) and you are going to have to have a floating floor and mount the inner walls and ceiling on that, making sure that nothing is coupled to the outer walls or the existing ceiling. We mounted our concrete floor with the heating coils in it, onto a 6" layer of foam nylon. That has made all the difference. We are 400yds from the road and I feel the vibrations of very large trucks in every other room except in the studio - total silence in there!

Good luck with your project!

[itsnoahwolf]

Before you do ANYTHING, get a copy of this book - https://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-S ... 145&sr=8-1

It sounds very much as if you are going to have to build a room-within-a-room and that will cost money - so AFTER you have read that book (and others - and talk to other studio owners) you set out a plan and then set out a realistic budget.

Before you blow $s on an acoustician, ask for references for projects for recording studios that person has completed.

The floor will be a problem (it seems to be vibrating in sympathy to outside truck noises) and you are going to have to have a floating floor and mount the inner walls and ceiling on that, making sure that nothing is coupled to the outer walls or the existing ceiling. We mounted our concrete floor with the heating coils in it, onto a 6" layer of foam nylon. That has made all the difference. We are 400yds from the road and I feel the vibrations of very large trucks in every other room except in the studio - total silence in there!

Good luck with your project!

Sounds good. The book looks like an excellent read!
I am planning to do room within a room as that appears to be the best way to get decent results in a case like mine. I did figure on floating the floor as well with a layer of thick rubber, 2 layers of green glued brick layered plywood, then the laminate on top of that. The trickiest part for me will be to figure out the best way to attach the walls to the floor. My guess is they need to be acoustic caulked down to the floated floor for best soundproofing results.
Thanks for the pointers!!

[The Red Bladder]

Sounds good. The book looks like an excellent read!
I am planning to do room within a room as that appears to be the best way to get decent results in a case like mine. I did figure on floating the floor as well with a layer of thick rubber, 2 layers of green glued brick layered plywood, then the laminate on top of that. The trickiest part for me will be to figure out the best way to attach the walls to the floor. My guess is they need to be acoustic caulked down to the floated floor for best soundproofing results.
Thanks for the pointers!!

You may want to review those plans after you have read that book and spoken to a few studio owners and possibly some experts. The book is geared to the US market and targets exactly the kind of project you have in mind.

IMHO, you are getting too tied up in this material or that construction method and it would be a good idea to learn as much as you can about all the various methods and materials. You will be surprised what is out there nowadays! All kinds of lightweight materials that also dampen low frequency sounds when installed correctly (they're the hard ones to get rid of!)

Then there are all the technical issues to consider, such as fold-back, power supplies, cable runs, AC, quiet ventilation and my biggest headache - where to store stuff that we need but do not need all the time. Just where do you put a Hammond and Leslie and about eight synths, e-pianos and drum kits when they are not needed? A whole second building?

The whole thing will take longer than you think! But enjoy the process!

[BigRedX]

Could I suggest that you look closely at your plans and cost them right now.

We are always optimistic when we work out costs. Sometimes we underestimate how much material we need, then we have to make allowances for mistakes, and contingencies for the things we didn't realise we needed until we came up against the unanticipated problems.

So take your costings and add between 50% and 100%. This is probably what you will need to spend.

This will be a big number. Look at it, think about how hard you have worked to save or what it is costing you to borrow.

And also work out how much time that will buy you in a well-respected commercial studio, maybe with a name producer overseeing it all. I know that's probably not what you want to hear on a forum attached to a "home-recording" magazine, but sometimes it is possible to loose sight of what the end product is going to be.

[itsnoahwolf]

Sounds good. The book looks like an excellent read!
I am planning to do room within a room as that appears to be the best way to get decent results in a case like mine. I did figure on floating the floor as well with a layer of thick rubber, 2 layers of green glued brick layered plywood, then the laminate on top of that. The trickiest part for me will be to figure out the best way to attach the walls to the floor. My guess is they need to be acoustic caulked down to the floated floor for best soundproofing results.
Thanks for the pointers!!

You may want to review those plans after you have read that book and spoken to a few studio owners and possibly some experts. The book is geared to the US market and targets exactly the kind of project you have in mind.

IMHO, you are getting too tied up in this material or that construction method and it would be a good idea to learn as much as you can about all the various methods and materials. You will be surprised what is out there nowadays! All kinds of lightweight materials that also dampen low frequency sounds when installed correctly (they're the hard ones to get rid of!)

Then there are all the technical issues to consider, such as fold-back, power supplies, cable runs, AC, quiet ventilation and my biggest headache - where to store stuff that we need but do not need all the time. Just where do you put a Hammond and Leslie and about eight synths, e-pianos and drum kits when they are not needed? A whole second building?

The whole thing will take longer than you think! But enjoy the process!

Yeah that could be. I'm just mostly going off of what I've seen many other builders do haha! I will do more research and figure out what I can!
Thank you for the solid advice!!

[itsnoahwolf]

Could I suggest that you look closely at your plans and cost them right now.

We are always optimistic when we work out costs. Sometimes we underestimate how much material we need, then we have to make allowances for mistakes, and contingencies for the things we didn't realise we needed until we came up against the unanticipated problems.

So take your costings and add between 50% and 100%. This is probably what you will need to spend.

This will be a big number. Look at it, think about how hard you have worked to save or what it is costing you to borrow.

And also work out how much time that will buy you in a well-respected commercial studio, maybe with a name producer overseeing it all. I know that's probably not what you want to hear on a forum attached to a "home-recording" magazine, but sometimes it is possible to loose sight of what the end product is going to be.

That's a good thought as well. I'm a full time producer myself, but I understand what I could learn from an experience like that. Nonetheless, my clients keep coming back and I need a better space as soon as I can figure one out haha. The room I'm working in now is ok, but it has some major drawbacks.