Pub Band - what's changed since 2020

[ore_terra]

that's what I do too. I gig with a Quad Cortex AND my amp.

signal spplited in the device before the amp block and sent out to the amp.

amp block is a capture of the very amp I play, and I use it via an XLR out to feed a little mixer where I do my own mix with my guitar, my vocals (also coming from the Quad Cortex) and a monitor feed with everything else.

inside the Quad Cortex I'm also using captures of my own overdrive and fuzz pedals.

best of both worlds

[Sam Spoons]

That's sort of what I bought the Headrush Gigboard* for, no amp/speaker sims just the virtual pedals into my 18 Watt combo and it does work pretty well but then I plug the pedalboard in and that sounds, just a little, better so the pedals go in the car and it's back to the drawing board with the Headrush and then I haven't got another electric gig for six months so I put the job on the back burner...

* I used to gig a small rack system with a Boss GX700, Marshall 8008 and a Boss FC200 midi controller. The GX700 was a decent bit of kit as was the GT3 and the two Digitechs and various others over the years but I always end up back with a few pedals and a valve amp...

[Music Wolf]

That may also be because you’re comparing fried eggs with boiled eggs: they’re not the same meal despite both being eggs

Your amp sounds like an amp. Your modeler sound like a mic’d amp through monitors.

This is very much at the heart of it. A modeller will always struggle to reproduce that 'amp-in-the-room' sound. This is why you have guys spending a fortune on things like the Kemper Kabinet in order to try to recreate that real amp feel.

If that's what is important to you, then stick with a real amp. If you can live without that in order to get all the other benefits that modellers bring then that's the way for you. No right or wrong, just right for a particular player.

The other year I acquired a vintage Fender amp. Incredible sound on stage but it got used a grand total of twice. Weighed a ton (well, 65lbs), filled the boot of my car and lacked flexibility. I never played it at home as it was too loud. I know what works for me.

[AlecSp]

This:

The fact is that the audience couldn't really give a monkey's what you play through as long as they can all sing along to Dakota at the ned of the evening.

But for all those guitarists who can't get "their tone" without taking your face off - there is *always* a better way. I've been fortunate enough to go to quite a few pub gigs with bands comprising session musicians. Surprise, surprise, they're all now using modellers and IEMs, and they all sound fantastic. The kit can do it...

[Sam Spoons]

But for all those guitarists who can't get "their tone" without taking your face off - there is *always* a better way.

Yup, a small valve amp

[MarkOne]

But for all those guitarists who can't get "their tone" without taking your face off - there is *always* a better way.

Yup, a small valve amp

I've played in a band with a guy using a Helix and currently with a guy using a small valve amp and a pedal board full of classic pedals, IMO they both produced a great sound, the big difference being, the Helix was ready to go in seconds, he didn't spend ages tap-dancing on the pedals trying to get the right sound for the next song, we didn't have to faff with miking it up, and there were never any odd buzzes that often seem to need to be sorted during sound checks.

[Sam Spoons]

I do think the player makes more difference than the rig, particularly from an audience PoV. As a guitar player I notice the difference in the way the dfx responds in comparison to the 'real' amp and pedals and I prefer the latter though TBH I don't gig much and could do any of the gigs I do do these days with a Tube screamer and a delay pedal.

[AlecSp]

I've played in a band with a guy using a Helix and currently with a guy using a small valve amp and a pedal board full of classic pedals, IMO they both produced a great sound, the big difference being, the Helix was ready to go in seconds, he didn't spend ages tap-dancing on the pedals trying to get the right sound for the next song, we didn't have to faff with miking it up, and there were never any odd buzzes that often seem to need to be sorted during sound checks.

Most importantly, I bet only one of them was killing the stage level and ripping the faces off the punters.

[Music Wolf]

he didn't spend ages tap-dancing on the pedals trying to get the right sound for the next song,

Whether you use a Helix or an amp, this comes down to practice - or rather lack of it.

When I practice at home I practice the full song / set list and that includes feet.

I've worked with so many guys where you just don't know what's coming next (and neither do they). I also used to work in a band where, 15 minutes before we were due to go on, the singer guitarist would be thrashing away at his guitar, at volume, whilst stamping on various pedals.

1) I don't know how he could make a guitar sound so un-musical (it was decent kit)

2) Doing this in front of an audience was very unproffesional

3) Why did he have to do this every gig, what's changed?

[Sam Spoons]

You were lucky to have the singer there 15 minutes before showtime, all the rock singers I've worked with show up with 3 minutes to spare with an SM58 in one hand and somebody else's wife in the other*

* This is, obviously, not true, it is in fact a huge (huge) exaggeration (to the point of being almost entirely fiction) but ask yourself, isn't there a grain of truth in there?**

** Yes I did work with a singer who habitually turned up with only 5 minutes to spare and almost always had a reason to leave immediately after the last song finished, pausing only to finish his pint (and quite possibly somebody else's too) and check his wallet for condoms.***

*** He was a bl00dy good singer mind you...

[shufflebeat]

I do think the player makes more difference than the rig...

Can we have this on an SoS T-shirt in the merch dept. please?

I realise some of the sponsors might twitch but they can have a free shirt.

[Sam Spoons]

I've played in a band with a guy using a Helix and currently with a guy using a small valve amp and a pedal board full of classic pedals, IMO they both produced a great sound, the big difference being, the Helix was ready to go in seconds, he didn't spend ages tap-dancing on the pedals trying to get the right sound for the next song, we didn't have to faff with miking it up, and there were never any odd buzzes that often seem to need to be sorted during sound checks.

Most importantly, I bet only one of them was killing the stage level and ripping the faces off the punters.

Yeah, it was the guy with the Helix and stereo 2kW FRFR cabs behind him (either that or he was the sound guy's boyfriend ).

[shufflebeat]

I've had people turn up with modellers expecting an individual powered monitor at levels that would cause the same chaos their amp would've done if they'd bothered to bring it along.

Can't help thinking I've been "delegated" to.

[ore_terra]

Most importantly, I bet only one of them was killing the stage level and ripping the faces off the punters.

1st of all, I'm free of guilt as I always bring an attenuator to gigs.

BUT

stage level, and level in general , has always been part of live music experience. From the moment you have a fellow playing acoustic drums that is not background music anymore, and audience and sound technician have always "embraced" this.

of course there must be responsibility coming from the performers, but for me the key is that they're able to manage the balance more than the overall level.

I don't think people complained about stage level when Hendrix toured small UK venues in the 60's with a 100W MArshall

[BigRedX]

I don't think people complained about stage level when Hendrix toured small UK venues in the 60's with a 100W MArshall

But that's because at the Hendrix gigs people were there specifically to see him (or at least one of the other bands on the bill) play live. The typical pub covers band are only one step up from being background music.

[AlecSp]

Yeah, it was the guy with the Helix and stereo 2kW FRFR cabs behind him (either that or he was the sound guy's boyfriend ).

That's just the modern day version of the guitarist with the double Marshall stack behind them in a small venue. *Still* believing that they've got their "sound".

There are a whole wealth of guitarists (and bass players) who just can't understand how to sound good as a band...

[ore_terra]

I don't think people complained about stage level when Hendrix toured small UK venues in the 60's with a 100W MArshall

But that's because at the Hendrix gigs people were there specifically to see him (or at least one of the other bands on the bill) play live. The typical pub covers band are only one step up from being background music.

yep that's a very fair point.

still one step up though

[Sam Spoons]

Much of the FoH sound from Hendrix's stack(s) must have been direct, the PA systems were not really up to the job back then except at the biggest shows/festivals. These days with modern small rigs being as competent as they are there's no need for excessive stage levels. But I do like to hear the backline (and see the sweat etc...) or I may as well be watching a video.

In my case, my little 18 Watt wouldn't melt the face off a chocolate biscuit (one of those with a face on, obviously ) but it does sound great without being too loud.

[paul tha other]

ive only played 3 or 4 gigs since lockdown..I still just rock up with my fender twin and my hx effects..im loud but nothing compared to the drummer I play with...up by me nothing has changed much apart from the gigs in the centre of town seem to be less and less and the gigs in the "local pub" have increased..theres often a band playing in the local round the corner from my house and they have to take the full backline and pa..there never used to be bands in there before covid..

i play in a tribute band so most of our gigs seem to be in venues with a pa already there

I know the manager of one of the pub/club/venue's here and he says the centre of town dies at 10pm,even at the weekends ..that is probably just here though..our town centre got killed off after covid..there are barely any shops open on our mainstreet

[Arpangel]

ive only played 3 or 4 gigs since lockdown..I still just rock up with my fender twin and my hx effects..im loud but nothing compared to the drummer I play with...up by me nothing has changed much apart from the gigs in the centre of town seem to be less and less and the gigs in the "local pub" have increased..theres often a band playing in the local round the corner from my house and they have to take the full backline and pa..there never used to be bands in there before covid..

i play in a tribute band so most of our gigs seem to be in venues with a pa already there

I know the manager of one of the pub/club/venue's here and he says the centre of town dies at 10pm,even at the weekends ..that is probably just here though..our town centre got killed off after covid..there are barely any shops open on our mainstreet

I'm in Kent, and I'd love to go and hear a band in my local, theres nothing going on here.
You know the type of music I'm into, but I love live music of any type, there’s always something great about it, but there’s f**k all here.

[paul tha other]

ive only played 3 or 4 gigs since lockdown..I still just rock up with my fender twin and my hx effects..im loud but nothing compared to the drummer I play with...up by me nothing has changed much apart from the gigs in the centre of town seem to be less and less and the gigs in the "local pub" have increased..theres often a band playing in the local round the corner from my house and they have to take the full backline and pa..there never used to be bands in there before covid..

i play in a tribute band so most of our gigs seem to be in venues with a pa already there

I know the manager of one of the pub/club/venue's here and he says the centre of town dies at 10pm,even at the weekends ..that is probably just here though..our town centre got killed off after covid..there are barely any shops open on our mainstreet

I'm in Kent, and I'd love to go and hear a band in my local, theres nothing going on here.
You know the type of music I'm into, but I love live music of any type, there’s always something great about it, but there’s f**k all here.

some of the bands arnt too happy about it though.. there is a few of these pubs that are part of a bigger group called "greane king"and the bands have to wait a month to get paid .

the last gig i played was in a venue that before covid we used to get a big wad of cash on the night,now they have went cashless and we had to wait a week to get paid..totaly ruined my night..im used to getting the cash and then getting a kebab on the way home and i had to make do with toast that night

[James Perrett]

I know the manager of one of the pub/club/venue's here and he says the centre of town dies at 10pm,even at the weekends ..that is probably just here though..our town centre got killed off after covid..there are barely any shops open on our mainstreet

I've noticed that things seem to be quieter after about 9pm these days. A few months ago in Portsmouth we were looking for a pub to have a drink in after a gig and everywhere was closed or closing.

[Arpangel]

ive only played 3 or 4 gigs since lockdown..I still just rock up with my fender twin and my hx effects..im loud but nothing compared to the drummer I play with...up by me nothing has changed much apart from the gigs in the centre of town seem to be less and less and the gigs in the "local pub" have increased..theres often a band playing in the local round the corner from my house and they have to take the full backline and pa..there never used to be bands in there before covid..

i play in a tribute band so most of our gigs seem to be in venues with a pa already there

I know the manager of one of the pub/club/venue's here and he says the centre of town dies at 10pm,even at the weekends ..that is probably just here though..our town centre got killed off after covid..there are barely any shops open on our mainstreet

I'm in Kent, and I'd love to go and hear a band in my local, theres nothing going on here.
You know the type of music I'm into, but I love live music of any type, there’s always something great about it, but there’s f**k all here.

some of the bands arnt too happy about it though.. there is a few of these pubs that are part of a bigger group called "greane king"and the bands have to wait a month to get paid .

the last gig i played was in a venue that before covid we used to get a big wad of cash on the night,now they have went cashless and we had to wait a week to get paid..totaly ruined my night..im used to getting the cash and then getting a kebab on the way home and i had to make do with toast that night

I had a very interesting conversation recently with an ex-Green King Tennant, about profit margins, it shocked me, that’s for sure.

[Sam Spoons]

This is part of the reason I've stopped gigging for money, It's become a business even for us 'hobby bands' who can't hope to cover costs on a couple of gigs a month. I'd much rather do open mics and charity gigs for nowt these days, it removes all the pressure to play Proud Mary and Mustang F*$£!ng Sally* solely to please the licensees mother in law...**

* OTOH I am working on an acoustic version of Stairway To Heaven so I can't really claim the high ground

** A few years ago I played in a pretty good country rock band fronted by a brilliant singer songwriter*** and was confronted by a semi-drunk, female, audience member at the break and asked when we were going to play some Quo or Black Sabbath...

*** We played 4 of Amanda's original songs amongst a great set of country rock standards including stuff from Taylor Swift, Alison Krauss, The Eagles and The Allman Brothers, we even managed a fair take on Cher's version of Marc Cohn's "Walking In Memphis".

[shufflebeat]

…and i had to make do with toast that night

Oh the DEPRIVATION!!