Which Oscilloscope?

[N i g e l]

A more general point about waveforms is that they can be quite deceptive. Taking something like Yoshimi AddSynth you can change the phase relationships of harmonics in ways that make them look totally different yet sound exactly the same.

I think that is because the ear cant hear absolute phase, only phase changes.

but yes, these wave forms will all sound the same, as they all have the same harmonic content [8 odd harmonics] but various phase shifts have been applied.

[harmonic 1 is the fundemental ]

[Folderol]

That's a very capable 'scope and at a not unreasonable price.
Pity about the translation

[merlyn]

... [harmonic 1 is the fundemental ] ...

That makes sense. It's the multiplier of f, the fundamental frequency. Fourier series uses bn for the coefficient of each harmonic, so we end up with

x(t) = b1*f + b2*2f + b3*3f + b4*4f ...

The fundamental is f, so we multiply by 1.

[ajay_m]

On glitch detection: the Siglent scope I have has pretty sophisticated triggering. There are ten options apart from the usual rising and falling slope including 'runt' where a glitch exceeds one threshold but not the next, and 'pattern', where you can set up a boolean AND or OR for the trigger conditions. It certainly far exceeds the capabilities of the old HP1725 analogue scope I had previously, which was by no means a budget instrument when it was released.

I can't say for sure it can reliably trigger and capture all transient events but it certainly does have pretty sophisticated capabilities and of course being a storage scope can then do a one-shot trigger and capture the glitch then let you save it to a plugged in USB drive or take a screenshot.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Hugh, I saw that too, look forward to your review.

Just some quick feedback on the Korg NTS2.

Assembly is very quick and straightforward, although splitting the boards is slightly nerve-wracking. It took no more than 15 minutes to assemble, and most of that was struggling with the tiny screws and tinier screwdriver!

Once assembled, it powered up without issues and the display is really crisp.

Operation is mostly obvious and straight-forward although I struggled to get the internal generator to work until I figured out the start/stop button also turns on/off the generator outputs.

Overall, it's very easy to build, easy to use, and has useful features and facilities. I like it.

[Arpangel]

Hugh, I saw that too, look forward to your review.

Just some quick feedback on the Korg NTS2.

Assembly is very quick and straightforward, although splitting the boards is slightly nerve-wracking. It took no more than 15 minutes to assemble, and most of that was struggling with the tiny screws and tinier screwdriver!

Once assembled, it powered up without issues and the display is really crisp.

Operation is mostly obvious and straight-forward although I struggled to get the internal generator to work until I figured out the start/stop button also turns on/off the generator outputs.

Overall, it's very easy to build, easy to use, and has useful features and facilities. I like it.

Thanks Hugh, could be good then, and take up less room than a big old scope.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I saw an EEV blog post that convinced me to get a Rigol DS1054Z. Previously I was using an HP/Agilent 1740A analog scope, which was old and well used, but far better than a Tektronix scope that was suggested as a similar old scope for good 100 MHz ability. The Tek had a fan, and holes in the case, and plastics that had become brittle and soft. The HP 1740A survived far better over the same time, only the legs on the back end had failed.

I considered a Picoscope but when I wanted to replace the 1740A I decided against anything that was not self-contained and easily portable. The Rigol DS1054Z is nice but some of its more esoteric features are too fiddly to access for me to want to use them a lot. The auto-triggering control is very useful, and better than that on the HP1740A. Saving a display to a USB storage widget is an amazing thing to have at times.

[wireman]

I saw an EEV blog post that convinced me to get a Rigol DS1054Z.

I have a Rigol DS2072A. The only thing that irks me is I feel I purchased something nobbled for bandwidth (not that I need it). I like being able to download the traces across a network.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I have a Rigol DS2072A. The only thing that irks me is I feel I purchased something nobbled for bandwidth (not that I need it).

That may well be so.. I read several details once, indicating that the same 100 MHz input system was used in the scopes with lower sample rates, with highest rates enabled by paid access to software features, because it was cheaper for Rigol to give a good device at moderate cost by avoiding having to set the limit by making different hardware for lower-rate versions of the same scope. The cost is ok either way, or it was... I noticed recently that if I wanted a backup scope I'd have to pay £150 more! Popularity has driven the price up. Should have got two at the outset, but never mind..

[Martin Walker]

When I occasionally need oscilloscope functions, I reach for the freeware Visual Analyzer application on my PC, which combines a dual-channel scope with a spectrum analyser and a tone generator, and a frequency meter...

http://www.sillanumsoft.org/prod01.htm

It's quite enough for my electronic excursions, and even has a readout of Waveform THD! (top left of the lower spectrum analyser window)

[Arpangel]

That looks nifty Martin.

[Martin Walker]

That looks nifty Martin.

It's helped me design, develop and fault-find various audio circuits, as well as mod various synths along the way

And although I'm still slightly miffed that some years back I missed a 2nd hand oscilloscope on Facebook Marketplace Scope at just £50, just three miles from me, it would have taken a lot of room on my desk, whereas this software takes up no room at all

[Arpangel]

That looks nifty Martin.

It's helped me design, develop and fault-find various audio circuits, as well as mod various synths along the way

And although I'm still slightly miffed that some years back I missed a 2nd hand oscilloscope on Facebook Marketplace Scope at just £50, just three miles from me, it would have taken a lot of room on my desk, whereas this software takes up no room at all

Yes Martin , but it’s like all this software stuff, when you turn the computer off it doesn’t exist.

[Lostgallifreyan]

That looks nifty Martin.

It's helped me design, develop and fault-find various audio circuits, as well as mod various synths along the way

And although I'm still slightly miffed that some years back I missed a 2nd hand oscilloscope on Facebook Marketplace Scope at just £50, just three miles from me, it would have taken a lot of room on my desk, whereas this software takes up no room at all

Yes Martin , but it’s like all this software stuff, when you turn the computer off it doesn’t exist.

Just to play the halfwit here for a moment, when you turn off a hardware oscilloscope, does that exist?

[Folderol]

That looks nifty Martin.

It's helped me design, develop and fault-find various audio circuits, as well as mod various synths along the way

And although I'm still slightly miffed that some years back I missed a 2nd hand oscilloscope on Facebook Marketplace Scope at just £50, just three miles from me, it would have taken a lot of room on my desk, whereas this software takes up no room at all

Yes Martin , but it’s like all this software stuff, when you turn the computer off it doesn’t exist.

Just to play the halfwit here for a moment, when you turn off a hardware oscilloscope, does that exist?

Drop it on your foot and find out for yourself

[Lostgallifreyan]

That looks nifty Martin.

It's helped me design, develop and fault-find various audio circuits, as well as mod various synths along the way

And although I'm still slightly miffed that some years back I missed a 2nd hand oscilloscope on Facebook Marketplace Scope at just £50, just three miles from me, it would have taken a lot of room on my desk, whereas this software takes up no room at all

Yes Martin , but it’s like all this software stuff, when you turn the computer off it doesn’t exist.

Just to play the halfwit here for a moment, when you turn off a hardware oscilloscope, does that exist?

Drop it on your foot and find out for yourself

I think my foot would tell me my puter is heavier than my scope. I am so glad I replaced my HP1740A scope...

[Arpangel]

Just to play the halfwit here for a moment, when you turn off a hardware oscilloscope, does that exist?

When a computer is turned off, it is in the existential domain, regarding our experience of it, a hardware oscilloscope on the other hand is very much a material reality. Of course, that can also depend on our perception of reality as individual human beings, which as we know, can vary immensely.
Especially when I’m out of my f*****g head.

[tea for two]

We know atoms molecules make up stuff from sh*t to vehicles to nuclear weapons to plants to us to computers.
Yet virtual stuff inside a computer as software what's that made oorrff.
Similar with us : our thoughts emotions inside us are virtual what are they made oorrff.
Were we to minimise these virtual from inside us : what from inside us would thereafter take precedence :
that which is most arcane most hidden most subtle to be nearly undected by us.

[ajay_m]

just remember that although for basic audio troubleshooting some kind of app working through an audio interface will work, a real scope gives you an incredible front end with a huge switchable gain range and a high input impedance and low loading capacitance that allows you to actually probe analogue circuitry properly. If you think about it, the front end of a scope is an amazing technical achievement, an amp which goes from DC to hundreds of megahertz with almost perfect frequency and phase response and a precise step response with minimal ringing. And with the old analogue scopes that amp had to be able to drive the deflection plates of the CRT at hundreds of volts as well.

This is why those old HP and Tektronics analogue scopes are marvels of vintage technology. A modern digital scope has far less of a challenge in terms of analogue front-end design because the front end only has to swing a few volts into the analogue to digital convertor and after that it's all in the digital domain. On the other hand, a good storage scope back in the 1970s was gonna set you back the price of a decent car, whereas now you can match its capabilities (and then some) for just over £300.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Just to play the halfwit here for a moment, when you turn off a hardware oscilloscope, does that exist?

When a computer is turned off, it is in the existential domain, regarding our experience of it, a hardware oscilloscope on the other hand is very much a material reality. Of course, that can also depend on our perception of reality as individual human beings, which as we know, can vary immensely.
Especially when I’m out of my f*****g head.

Its hardware is, but its function? I was being silly, but I try for method in madness. Better a witty fool than a foolish wit...

Electrons themselves are very 'virtual' so I think it comes with the territory. Not just electrons either. What DOES remain when the music stops? Then again, vibration in a gas, friction in a solid, that's all electrons too! The closer we look, the harder it can be to see where real and virtual meet. Probably why some witty fool had to invent the oscilloscope..

[Arpangel]

What DOES remain when the music stops?

I’ve always had a problem with this, as nothing is something, empty the universe and you have a big black space, that’s "something"

[Sam Spoons]

What DOES remain when the music stops?

The applause, hopefully

[Drew Stephenson]

"Thank you. Next!" if you're unlucky.

[Martin Walker]

Well I'm glad I stirred the pot and helped generate a plethora of interesting responses, but I still remain perfectly satisfied by my virtual oscilloscope, which magically appears whenever I need it, but doesn't take up any space or resources at all when I don't.

And if I need a high-ish 1M input impedance when fault-finding, I just plug my probe into my software via my Orchid DI box

[Sam Spoons]

"Thank you. Next!" if you're unlucky.

Or worse still the long pole with the large hook reaching across from the wings before the music stops.