Are internal sound cards an option any more?

[wireman]

I'm wondering if people think that internal sound cards have had their day. Belatedly I'm specifying a new PC to replace one that has the following

• Creative Titanium X-Fi
• ECHO Audiofire 4

I can't use the latter (no drivers) but will use a USB external interface.

For the internal card I really just used it for default windows sound for general applications connected via SPDIF to a set of small surround speakers, these can handle dolby sound from Power DVD. The Audiofire was connected to studio monitors. I found it an advantage to separate the two uses as there was a time when windows sounds/alerts would reset any sound device while you were using it in an application.

So, the following could be choices for a new PC...

• Creative Sound Blaster Z SE
• RME HDSPe AIO Pro

However, Creative seem to have moved back to a monolithic set of software (Command?) and I hated their old software bundles and only installed the driver. And if I read the website it was last updated in Feb 21, really?

And for the RME expensive option the card does not look like it has any shielding, can it work OK in a modern PC? Again driver updated in 2020 and maybe no Windows 11 support.

I'm wondering if the time has come to give up and try onboard sound and hope it is fine for general usage. I will still have the external interface for proper audio usage.

[Aled Hughes]

Yes, they are an option, but these days usually for high-end or high-channel counts, Dante etc.

The RME AIO Pro is a fairly recent card (I believe Hugh Robjohns uses one), and by all accounts it is superb. I had one on order for months until I cancelled it due to stock issues. I went with an RME Raydat, which is also a PCIe card.

If you go for the RME option you wouldn't need another USB interface - their PCIe cards are superb interfaces. An internal PCIe card is not "onboard sound" - it's an audio interface that uses the PCIe connection. Many high-channel count Dante cards such as the Focusrite Rednet use it as well.

I use my Raydat with an external RME A/D-D/A converter for all my I/O needs.

Also, I have no issues with RME devices handling system sounds. I use four different RME systems and they're all fine handling everything.

[wireman]

By "onboard sound" I meant from a chipset on the motherboard.

I wonder if I went for the RME, could I connect to the surround system via SPDIF being default windows sound and route specific audio apps (Cubase, wavelab) to the active speakers at the same time?
It looks like you need to add different breakout cables to the card for anything but SPDIF.

[wireman]

Should have said, will go for Windows 10 and hang on as long as possible but need to future-proof if I'm forced to Windows 11 at some point later next year.

[Nazard]

Lynx also make some good PCI Express cards

https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/

[The Elf]

Windows 11 is mature and stable. Why would you choose to defer it?

[rdesanti2021]

So I gather many of you guys are on a DESKTOP Windows computer that has PCI? WOW! While I think PCI tech is good, the modern USB3 audio interfaces are great all around because you can use them on virtually ANY KIND OF COMPUTER! Windows desktop, laptop, and pretty much ANY MAC or Linux machine. Just saying. With a simple analog mixer even with no USB, you can connect the mixers output to let's say an SSL 2+ or any modern audio USB type interface and like I do, mix analog audio from multiple sources, and listen AND RECORD to whatever I want! This includes headphones and monitor speakers AND other rooms I may need. Just adding my 2 cents here folks. - PEACE
--- Rich D

[BWC]

I'm wondering if the time has come to give up and try onboard sound and hope it is fine for general usage. I will still have the external interface for proper audio usage.

It is, and has been for some time, IMO. That's what I do, onboard (Realtek ALC898) for some things, external interface for others. Good enough!

[Aled Hughes]

By "onboard sound" I meant from a chipset on the motherboard.

I wonder if I went for the RME, could I connect to the surround system via SPDIF being default windows sound and route specific audio apps (Cubase, wavelab) to the active speakers at the same time?
It looks like you need to add different breakout cables to the card for anything but SPDIF.

SPDIF is stereo only - it won't carry surround.

Otherwise, yes. It comes with Totalmix which allows you to pretty much route anything anywhere you want.

Due to their nature, PCIe cards often use breakout cables to access the I/O - I think the AIO Pro comes with a breakout cable with unbalanced connections for the analogue connections(a balanced version is also available), and a separate breakout cable for the SPDIF and AES connections. It also has 8-channels od ADAT I/O directly on the card.

See the SOS review here: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rme-hdspe-aio-pro

[wireman]

SPDIF is stereo only - it won't carry surround.

That's a pity, so the RME can't do what my existing card does but then it would not be a feature to expect on such a card. Currently I have the Creative sound card set to send Dolby Digital over the SPDIF link and the (ancient) Cambridge Soundworks device detects that in the bitstream.

[Hugh Robjohns]

And for the RME expensive option the card does not look like it has any shielding, can it work OK in a modern PC?

I measured superb results on the AIO Pro, delivering dynamic ranges of over 119dB on both converters. Trust me, shielding is not an issue.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rme-hdspe-aio-pro

Again driver updated in 2020 and maybe no Windows 11 support.

I'll bet RME will have AIO Pro drivers for Windows 20..... it already works on Windows 11..... as does the original AIO card which I have running alongside it!

[Hugh Robjohns]

By "onboard sound" I meant from a chipset on the motherboard.

I wonder if I went for the RME, could I connect to the surround system via SPDIF being default windows sound and route specific audio apps (Cubase, wavelab) to the active speakers at the same time?
It looks like you need to add different breakout cables to the card for anything but SPDIF.

SPDIF is stereo only - it won't carry surround.

Not strictly true. S/PDIF can carry surround 5.1 channels), but only if encoded with Dolby Digital or DTS. But it can't carry discrete channels — you'd have to use ADAT for that.

The breakout cables are nothing special and easy to DIY if you can solder.

[Aled Hughes]

By "onboard sound" I meant from a chipset on the motherboard.

I wonder if I went for the RME, could I connect to the surround system via SPDIF being default windows sound and route specific audio apps (Cubase, wavelab) to the active speakers at the same time?
It looks like you need to add different breakout cables to the card for anything but SPDIF.

SPDIF is stereo only - it won't carry surround.

Not strictly true. S/PDIF can carry surround 5.1 channels), but only if encoded with Dolby Digital or DTS. But it can't carry discrete channels — you'd have to use ADAT for that.

The breakout cables are nothing special and easy to DIY if you can solder.

Ah, thank you Hugh. My apologies for the misinformation.

[BWC]

I love RME as much as most here, but seems a bit overkill considering that...

For the internal card I really just used it for default windows sound for general applications connected via SPDIF to a set of small surround speakers, these can handle dolby sound from Power DVD.

[wireman]

Yes, the RME is overkill unless it also replaces the external USB interface. That might be technically possible but an interface with XLR/jack sockets etc. is a bit more user friendly than a PCIe card with breakout cables.

Thanks for all the comments.

[FrankRaz]

I built a new machine a couple of years ago, Ryzen 9 5900 and MSI motherboard, Windows 11. My Audiofire 8 wasn't being used at the time and I also had a StarTech firewire card with SLI chip also lying around. (It had been used for years in a Hackintosh, the SLI chip was the same as in my Mac Mini.) Why not I thought. I downloaded the driver and installed it. To my surprise it worked. It still works to this day. The driver is v5.8 and you can get it here.

https://echotm.com/legacy-downloads/

Your Audiofire 4 may not be as dead as you think.

[wireman]

Your Audiofire 4 may not be as dead as you think.

Thanks for that, interesting.
I do have the readmes and installers for 5.5, 5.7.6 and 5.8 on my current PC.
New PC should be here in a couple of weeks.