Guitarist+Trax -v- Keytar+Trax??

[pax-eterna]

Why is it that a guitarist can get away with just playing a guitar (even just strumming on an acoustic) with backing tracks, yet when a keys player using a so-called "key-tar" does the same thing it is ridiculed?

Just asking....

[pax-eterna]

guess folks have no idea of what I am talking about hahaha!

[Wonks]

We just don't want to make too much fun of someone who plays a keytar!

[tea for two]

This person has a lot of Keytars.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kBNAUYK0zJg
at 43seconds.

My fave Keytar design of all thyme is this LAG Insecte 1988 designed for JmJarre.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/24629129186983889/
http://equinoxejmjarre.free.fr/instrume ... e_LAG.html

[pax-eterna]

We just don't want to make too much fun of someone who plays a keytar!

Thereby promulgating the whole diss of anyone who thinks of using one...guitarist playing "chunka chunka" chords over a four piece band track are somehow thought of as "musicians" and someone who has to form chords and melody using the one hand only and then needing to operate controllers with the other is somehow a "naff nerd"!

Interesting.

[Drew Stephenson]

I guess looking from the outside a keytar seems like a product of form over function, or maybe just an exercise in compromise. A bit like a multi-neck guitar perhaps. I find them a bit hard to take seriously.

[tea for two]

Jan Hammer is the musician, was in Mahavishnu with John McLaughlin, that made Keytar most famouse I reckon.
Here is Jan on Keytar with David Gilmour Jeff Beck Ringo Starr on a music vid.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwxLX8Ti ... ZmIGJlY2sg
Jan on Keytar with Al Di Meola in concert.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umadnuNU6_w

George Duke on a Moog Liberation Keytar on OG Whistle Test.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKlezPu3xg
George Duke on Keytar at 1min34 in concert.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pLKELmClP ... Uga2V5dGFy
There's other vids of George on Keytar.

[Wonks]

We just don't want to make too much fun of someone who plays a keytar!

Thereby promulgating the whole diss of anyone who thinks of using one...guitarist playing "chunka chunka" chords over a four piece band track are somehow thought of as "musicians" and someone who has to form chords and melody using the one hand only and then needing to operate controllers with the other is somehow a "naff nerd"!

Interesting.

A guitarist is playing a guitar. It is what it is.

Someone playing a keytar is a keyboard player who wants to look like a guitarist on stage.

[tea for two]

Here is JmJarre with LAG Insecte Keytar made for JmJ linked to earlier. Has a Shure Sm58 on it so JmJ can do the vocoded words. At the start it's another made for JmJ Keytar JmJ is sporting.
With Moroccan string section who are wearing Fez.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umNPLPbTc ... Jpcw%3D%3D
This was 1990 Paris, Guinness Book of Records say 2.5million attended : don't know how they worked this oot still it's a ridiculous number.

JmJ is sporting a pink jacket which I would have to as well were I playing a Keytar although mine would have to have flecks with rolled up sleeves.

[pax-eterna]

A guitarist is playing a guitar. It is what it is.

Someone playing a keytar is a keyboard player who wants to look like a guitarist on stage.

what a crock!

[pax-eterna]

Yep, try to engender an adult conversation among the children guitar players and all you get are [abusive language removed]!

and I' would not be surprised if those above are exactly those chunka chunka guys who play in a local bar with backing tracks out the wazoo claiming they are the best musicians in the world. (cue the fake videos of them playing something pre-recorded)

[MarkOne]

I think it’s fair to say the stigma surrounding playing the keytar comes mostly from some guitarists. (And possibly people who just don’t like the 80s )

There are many examples of fantastic keyboard players picking one up to great theatrical effect.

Jan Hammer, who has already been mentioned,
Rick Wakeman. Try and seek out videos of him and his son Adam on dualing keytars
Jordan Rudess has had several custom made and a keytar solo always features in Dream Theater shows
Also, way back in the 70s Edgar Winter screwed some strap buttons to his Korg 2600 controller for the big solo in Frankenstein

I have an Alesis Vortex as part of my cover band rig. I don’t think either of the guitarists in the band think anything less of me.

My question to you, where is this coming from, is it a perception or have you genuinely been berated for playing one? Frankly, my experience is if you put on an entertaining show, people don’t care how you do it.

[tea for two]

Speaking of pink, here's MiDi controller Keytar Yammy Kx5 painted pink and blue for JmJ in 1986.
http://analogsynthmuseum.free.fr/images ... nv90-1.jpg
http://equinoxejmjarre.free.fr/instrume ... a_KX5.html
I've wanted a Kx5 on and oorrff so I could have it same painted pink blue.

[tea for two]

Luka Zotti hand crafted put together hybrid Key Guitars, MiDi keyboard built into the body of Electric Guitars that Luka crafted.
https://www.lukazotti.com/key-guitar/?lang=en
"Solid Body: Maple (not painted, treated with natural oils)
Neck: birdseye maple
Tuning machines: auto-locking Gotoh
Pick ups: neck DiMarzio Telecaster style, bridge Seymour Duncan Jeff Beck (vintage Made in USA)
Bridge: permanent, independent saddles with passing through strings (Telecaster style)
MIDI controller: Akai LPK 25
Outputs: jack (guitar) and usb (master keyboard/controller)."

Luka crafting a different Key Guitar : 2min50sec vid starts at 39seconds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLY25BMgs_8
Luka playing this crafted Key Guitar. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2e3j7OH4Z ... kgZ3VpdGFy
With a light sabre Jedi Luka Skywalker lol.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsUkJ-UsPqw

[zenguitar]

The OP, pax-eterna, is now enjoying a one week ban to consider his language. I've edited that from his post but a copy of the original has been retained for review by the Mod team.

The original post appears to be framed to be contentious and the OP's subsequent posts in this topic have been framed with a bunch of negative assumptions.

For now this topic will remain unlocked. But we'll keep an eye on how it develops.

Andy

[Wonks]

A guitarist is playing a guitar. It is what it is.

Someone playing a keytar is a keyboard player who wants to look like a guitarist on stage.

what a crock!

So why else do keytars try to look like guitars as much as possible? Edgar Winter playing Frankenstein with a proper ARP keyboard round his neck was a great look. But a keytar is a definite guitar substitute for stage use.

Occasional use in a band context is fine IMO, but to play one in a solo context with backing tracks instead of a normal keyboard, is always going to invite some level of ridicule from the audience.

It’s a very ‘look at me’ instrument, focusing people’s attention on the performer rather than the music they’re making.

You asked a question. If you don’t like the answers you get, even though they seem to match the response received from the audience, then don’t ask those sorts of questions. It would seem it’s your own perception of the situation that is at odds with the mainstream view, so declaring anyone an idiot who disagrees isn't going to win you many friends.

[tea for two]

If I was an Electronic Music god as JmJ, I wouldn't want to hide away behind keyboards infront of millions of audience. Although I don't have the courage I'd rather hide away behind somewhere wearing a hoodie lol.

Lots of Gitwrists as IvanSC used to say prance aroond on stage jumping up n down making extravagant gestures which is a rather hey look at me.
They seem to have a whale of a time.
Hidden away behind keyboards languishing just seems not part of the fun for the Keyboardist.
All the other band members move around interacting with the audience, apart from drummer the drummer is a focal point anyways, whereas the keyboard player is languishing static not really interacting with the audience.
For these reasons I can understand a keyboard player wanting to don a Keytar.

[Wonks]

We aren’t talking band situation here. We’re talking solo artist playing along to backing tracks. Context, dear boy, context.

[tea for two]

Oooh ooops.
I'd die of embarrassment if I had to do that.

[Eddy Deegan]

Occasional use in a band context is fine IMO, but to play one in a solo context with backing tracks instead of a normal keyboard, is always going to invite some level of ridicule from the audience.

It’s a very ‘look at me’ instrument, focusing people’s attention on the performer rather than the music they’re making.

I agree. I've seen Keytars used very effectively on occasion in the context of a live performance. Jarre concerts spring to mind of course, but I reckon the best use of them I've ever seen was Rick and Adam Wakeman doing head-to-head Keytar solos live, which was wonderful!

If someone can play a keytar well enough to impress musically then I'm all for that too but as a simple substitution for a normal keyboard it doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.

Actually, another good use for them is having lots of fun playing them in your own studio/home environment!

[BigRedX]

I'll just leave these here:

[MarkOne]

We aren’t talking band situation here. We’re talking solo artist playing along to backing tracks. Context, dear boy, context.

Well, to counter that, in the context of solo player with tracks, I can see the a whole load of live music opportunities get closed off to keyboard players. I'm thinking of open mics where the very thought of setting up a keyboard on a stand will make it a no-no, Whereas just slinging on a vortex (which is wireless) and doing your set is an ideal way to get in on the fun.

If you add a looper into the equation you get potential for a pretty unique set.

The other thing the vortex brings to the party is an accelerometer and position sensor, which means you can map moves to MIDI parameters.

And I areee that keyboard payers often get relegated to the dark corner of stage (Oh how I count the times where I've been all but invisible!) A keyboard player of my acquaintance also likened playing keys to standing behind an ironing board (to the point where he had a controller built into an actual ironing board!)

Anyway, I won't let an outdated meme stop me from having keytar fun, and like I said, if it's a good show, slick and enjoyable... Who cares!

[Wonks]

It seems people struggle with the word 'context'.

Keytar at an open mic night - fine. Keytar in a band context - OK (if not over-used or it adds something to the performance).

Keytar for a solo performer to backing tracks? Not for me at all. But the same for a solo electric guitarist with backing tracks doing the whole one foot on the monitor thing.

[Eddy Deegan]

I've only ever played a Keytar once, around a friends place. I enjoyed it

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-oM4e2 ... sp=sharing

[resistorman]

My LinnStrument came with pins for a guitar strap....