One mic to record live band

[bencuri]

I make video recordings of our band sometimes. Recently I use an Audio Technica ATR25 to record the sound. I wondered what would be the best option to upgrade, if my budget limit is 300 USD?

Here is an example of one of our events:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KZcbCU ... sp=sharing

[Wonks]

Lovely playing, enjoyed that!

I thought the sound was very good, if maybe just a bit lacking in bass. But without being there. I don't know if that was down to the mic or just how it sounded in that spot where the mic was.

What was going through the PA, the guitar, or guitar and bass? If just the guitar, then the sound from the speakers is pointing straight at the mic, whilst the bass amp sounds are a bit less direct.

I'm not sure if a better single stereo mic will get any better results. You'd probably need to go to miking up all the instruments and mixing them down to stereo for a better sound.

Have you tried EQing the recording for more bass?

The specs for the ATR25 indicate a 70Hz-18kHz frequency range. Those values are probably at -10dB points, so the bass end falls off quite soon on it.

If you are fitting it to a camera, then the Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro would be a step up. That goes down to 40Hz (though it has a switchable filter for 75Hz which can be useful in non-music work) and it has a good built-in anti-shock suspension. That should be around $250 USD. It's just over £180 here in the UK.

https://rode.com/en/microphones/on-came ... deomic-pro

Hopefully others will come up with some more suggestions.

[bencuri]

It depends on the situation whether I can boost the bass or not. Sometimes due to the presence of the audience I cannot modify the optimal settings for the venue. And very often I cannot solve multi-channel recording at the event.

My problem is exactly what you mention anyway: the bass is weak sometimes. I wondered if it would be possible to buy something up to 300 USD that can capture more realisticly what you hear at the venue as a listener. The bass was definately stronger even in case of this recording.

I record with a canon camcorder but it doesn't matter if I need to record the sound separately.

I know that there are microphones that can do superb 1 mic recordings, like the AEA R88, but that is defniately over my budget.

The other problem is I am not sure what microphone type would be ideal for this purpose. When I wrote realisticly, I meant the sound coming from the stage first of all, so it is not a problem if the microphone is not 360 and the audience noise is missing. But if its there it is not a problem either, because most of the time the band is loud enough so there is not too much audience noise anyway.

[tea for two]

Made me smile the video lilting Guitar playing, chilled Bass player.

the bass is weak sometimes.
I wondered if it would be possible to buy something up to 300 USD that can capture more realisticly what you hear at the venue as a listener. The bass was definately stronger even in case of this recording.

I know that there are microphones that can do superb 1 mic recordings, like the AEA R88, but that is defniately over my budget.

A MidSide recorder would pick up the Bass more such as Zoom H2n. H2n decodes the MidSide so no need for computer software. No need to break the bank, H2n is approx £130 new, approx £70 or so used 2nd hand.

::

Drum kit invariably too loud in such scenarios.
Preehaps drummer could be persuaded to play with sticks on an Alesis Samplepad, Roland SPD. Would fo sho make drummer's life lot easier not having to transport lug around set up pack up drum kit.
Also ofcourse lots varities percussion sounds to choose from.

[bencuri]

Made me smile the video lilting Guitar playing, chilled Bass player.

the bass is weak sometimes.
I wondered if it would be possible to buy something up to 300 USD that can capture more realisticly what you hear at the venue as a listener. The bass was definately stronger even in case of this recording.

I know that there are microphones that can do superb 1 mic recordings, like the AEA R88, but that is defniately over my budget.

A MidSide recorder would pick up the Bass more such as Zoom H2n. H2n decodes the MidSide so no need for computer software. No need to break the bank, H2n is approx £130 new, approx £70 or so used 2nd hand.

::

Drum kit invariably too loud in such scenarios.
Preehaps drummer could be persuaded to play with sticks on an Alesis Samplepad, Roland SPD. Would fo sho make drummer's life lot easier not having to transport lug around set up pack up drum kit.
Also ofcourse lots varities percussion sounds to choose from.

If I purchase the Zoom H2n, can I completely rely on that, or better leaving the Audio Technica Mic in action, too, to mix the two together perhaps? Or that is absolutely not needed?

[Jorge]

Your group sounds great. I agree a better mic could improve the audio especially the bass.

Mic placement is very important for sound quality and a separate mic or recorder gives more flexibility than an on-camera mic. If you are generally able to place the camera in a spot where the music also sounds good (sometimes not so easy), the on-camera option may be your best since it will automatically sync the video and audio (more or less). Compared with the Rode VideoMic Pro (which goes down to 40 Hz), the VideoMic Pro+ has a wider frequency response listed by Rode as down to 20 Hz. I could not find an actual graph or independent test but assuming the Rode spec is reasonably accurate, I think that additional octave would be very useful for your style of music and worth the cost difference.

For separate mic'ing I like the Rode NT4 for live recording with a single (stereo) mic. It is reported as 20 Hz to 20KHz and would give you an accurate recording of the bass, excellent sound quality and stereo soundstage, and is a battery powered condenser (but large and heavy). I have used one for many years, but it is around 530 USD and Rode has released many other models since the NT4 came out (which I have not tried).

In your video, I noticed about a 2 beat (400-500 millisecond) lag between the audio and video. Not sure how you edit your videos, but you should be able to fix that. If you are going to edit the audio and video, you could potentially use a separate small digital recorder like those suggested and manually add the audio to your video. I like the Sony PCM-A10, it is super small/light, reliable, has intuitive logic, around 230 USD. Sony reports 40Hz-22KHz (-3dB) frequency response but on live recordings I can hear some bass roll off compared to the NT4, and the lowest notes on a 5 string bass won't be as loud. But sound quality is overall very good and gives you great flexibility to place it almost anywhere that sounds good in the venue.

[bencuri]

In your video, I noticed about a 2 beat (400-500 millisecond) lag between the audio and video.

I am aware of that delay I just did not have time to correct it yet. Originally it was not there, it was synced but during the years on a re-editing I must have made some mistake and it shifted.

[Arpangel]

Isn’t it amazing how great music can make any recording sound er "great"!
Love this, but I'd second a Rode NT4 over any handy recorder mic, given the budget, if bass is still lacking use a good EQ to sort it out.
Whatever you do don’t try and change the drums to electronic ones, they are fine right now, and essential to the feel and sound.

[bencuri]

"Isn’t it amazing how great music can make any recording sound er "great"!"

Thanks, also for the appreciation by other commenters.

Unfortunately the NT4 is over the budget at the moment, but that is the kind of stuff I am aiming for. Until then I will decide what I could get from what the others mentioned so far.

I wonder if the NT4 would be suitable for 1 mic studio recording as well by the way? Sometimes such a thing would be useful when we want to record a better quality demo for example, but don't want to pay for the studio time, and the band is in a rush as well. I have seen examples to such recordings here with the AEA R88. Compared to that the NT4 seems to be more directional. But maybe I am wrong, or it is just the matter of placement?
https://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/recording ... tereo-mic/

Such a solution would be very useful, as I only need to pay for the rehearsal space and such recordings could be used for videos as well.

[James Perrett]

The Zoom XYH-6 mics that I use have a decent bass response - at least they capture the bottom end of a djembe well. I think they are the same as the mics fitted to the H4. I've also been impressed with the recordings I've heard from an H2 but haven't directly compared them with recordings done with my Zoom mics.

[Arpangel]

I'm sure about what James says about the XYH-6 mic's, just use EQ to compensate.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I have seen examples to such recordings here with the AEA R88. Compared to that the NT4 seems to be more directional. But maybe I am wrong, or it is just the matter of placement?

It's a matter of stereo acceptance angles (SRA)! The NT4 employs a pair of cardioid capsules mounted with a fixed 90 degree mutual angle. That arrangement gives an SRA of 180 degrees — which means that for a sound to appear fully left (or right) it has to move a full 90 degrees to the side of the mic. Consequently, in a typical camera shooting location, the stage sounds wiull only occupy a very small arc of the SRA and thus create a very narrow stereo image... with most of the stereo image being filled with the crowd around the mic.

The R88 is Blumlein mic comprising two fig-8 capsules mounted at 90 degrees. This combination gives an SRA of only about 90 degrees at the front (with a second SRA of 90 degrees facing backwards), which gives a much broader and meaningful stereo image, along with the illusion of more directivity.

However, this would be a wholly inappropriate mic to use for recording gigs in most cases, but could be used to good effect in a more controlled studio environment, placing band members either side of the mic for good eye contact and more control over the stereo image.

[Jorge]

In your video, I noticed about a 2 beat (400-500 millisecond) lag between the audio and video.

I am aware of that delay I just did not have time to correct it yet. Originally it was not there, it was synced but during the years on a re-editing I must have made some mistake and it shifted.

My point was not the delay (at least it is synced on a downbeat albeit 2 beats late), but rather that if you are going to the trouble to do AV editing post-recording, that opens up the flexibility to use a separate mic located in an acoustically better spot than an on-camera mic might be. Optimal mic placement may have more effect on sound quality of the recording than the specific make and model of the mic, or even stereo vs mono.

[Drew Stephenson]

Optimal mic placement may have more effect on sound quality of the recording than the specific make and model of the mic, or even stereo vs mono.

This ^^^.

[Wonks]

Though to be honest, the video sound was a lot better than most I've seen, it just lacked bass.

[Drew Stephenson]

True, but that's always likely to be a casualty one way or another if you can't pick your mic position carefully.

[tea for two]

the bass is weak sometimes.
I wondered if it would be possible to buy something up to 300 USD that can capture more realisticly what you hear at the venue as a listener. The bass was definately stronger even in case of this recording.

A MidSide recorder would pick up the Bass more such as Zoom H2n. H2n decodes the MidSide so no need for computer software. No need to break the bank, H2n is approx £130 new, approx £70 or so used 2nd hand.

If I purchase the Zoom H2n, can I completely rely on that, or better leaving the Audio Technica Mic in action, too, to mix the two together perhaps? Or that is absolutely not needed?

I'm glad others chimed in with other options.
H2n is one of the few hand held recorders with MidSide recording. It also has the standard XY array of hand held recorders. So you could fiddle with MS and XY mic arrays of H2n, move H2n around for better recording and Bass pick up.
I could only suggest purchasing from online where you have 14 or 30 days to return.

[Hugh Robjohns]

A MidSide recorder would pick up the Bass more such as Zoom H2n.

Okay... I'll bite... which bit of audio-mythology are you relying upon for that gem of dis-information?

[tacitus]

The bit where anything we don’t fully understand is mighty and powerful in ways we don’t, er, fully understand?

[Wonks]

True, but that's always likely to be a casualty one way or another if you can't pick your mic position carefully.

Or your mic only goes down to 70Hz.

You need both a suitable mic(s) and the right position.

[tea for two]

A MidSide recorder would pick up the Bass more such as Zoom H2n.

Okay... I'll bite... which bit of audio-mythology are you relying upon for that gem of dis-information?

Oh noooo Switching H2n to MS positioning towards the Bass player.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Why would that give more bass?

There are several useful benefits of the MS approach, but I dont see 'more bass' as one of them — although that could be argued if the Mid mic had an Omni pattern but only at serious expense to the stereo image.

[tea for two]

As it's a trio playing close together stereo imaging should be alright switching H2n to MS I would thawd.
There's one way to find ooot which if I had a H2n I'd gladly hand it over to the OP.

[Hugh Robjohns]

It don't think you're comprehending my comments.

The ONLY way you'd get 'more bass' from an MS array (compared to, say some form of cardioid-based array) is if you employed an omni capsule for the Mid Mic — just because omni mics normally have an extended bass response compared to most cardioids.

But doing that gives the equivalent XY format of back-back cardioids, which has an SRA of two times 180 degrees (ie rearward as well as frontal pickup) with huge angular distortion.

So aiming the Mid mic at the centre of the 'close-together' trio would give an incredibly narrow stereo image of the band, combined with lots of 'stereo' ambience from behind as well as in front.

I'm not sure you have really grasped the workings and implications of the Mid-Side technique...

All of which is irrelevant anyway as the H2 has a cardioid as its Mid mic element and will have the same kind of bass response as any other small-diaphragm cardioid-based stereo array....