String Section sounds like an Accordion (catastrophic disaster)

[Wonks]

But if it takes two musicians twice as long to record what it takes four musicians to do, then the overall time taken is twice as long.

You’d have to hire in two extra instruments, whereas four musicians all bring their own. And playing extra instruments probably incurs extra fees under MU/union rates so it could end up a lot more expensive to hire two musicians rather than four.

And assuming you’re hiring a studio, it could be an extra day of studio time. And unless agreed in advance, a lot of session musicians will walk out at the end of the allotted time (kids to pick up, shopping to do) rather than work an extra 15 minutes of overtime to complete the recordings. It’s not rock ‘n’ roll.

Plus the sound of four people playing together is still different to the sound of two + two.

It’s almost always cheaper and better to do it properly.

[Drew Stephenson]

Hearing the result, I was shocked. Here listen for yourselves:
https://vocaroo.com/11Wah69BrNwD

This is sounding like an accordion, a very bad sounding one. This is terrible.

Being completely serious, I could absolutely use that 'bad accordion' sound in some of my music. I have lots of string sample instruments but nothing that sounds like that. Not even my accordion playing!

[Wonks]

There are certain situations where a sound like that could be invaluable. I wasn't really joking; whilst there may not be a huge market for such a library, a collection of bad-sounding instruments could be invaluable for some people if constructing sounds for podcasts or radio of a beginner's group and a bad school band or orchestra. Or just Drew playing normally.

[PippaPumpkin]

To make our own library (for ourself not for sale)
Hiring a single string player that plays Violin Viola Cello Double Bass is relatively more affordable in the hundreds.
There's sites as
https://soundbetter.com/s/string-section
The string player can then pay each part multiple times stacking them to make it sound as an Orchestral string section. They do their recording at their choice of the engineer room studio, we don't do anything.
Or hiring a string quartet where the players are adept at swapping instruments thereafter they each record on 2 different Violins 1 Viola 1 Cello. This would get more richness fullness for our personal sample library.

That is an insteresting site. Maybe one day I can hire musicians to help me with my samples.

Being completely serious, I could absolutely use that 'bad accordion' sound in some of my music. I have lots of string sample instruments but nothing that sounds like that. Not even my accordion playing!

Why would you want to put something hideous in your mix?

[amanise]

...
Why would you want to put something hideous in your mix?

Now you've asked the trillion billion dollar question! What you think is hideous might be the best thing since the invention of the boiled egg to someone else.

One thing I've learned is that there is no such thing as bad music. There's only music that sells - and music that doesn't. And that can change with time.

If I didn't believe that - I'd never sing anything, or I'd go back to trying to disguise my voice with distortions and delays instead of leaving it clean and pitch conditioning it a bit.

[Drew Stephenson]

Why would you want to put something hideous in your mix?

Obviously to hide the stuff that's more hideous...

Genuinely I thought that would be a sound I could use as a virtual instrument.

[PippaPumpkin]

Now you've asked the trillion billion dollar question! What you think is hideous might be the best thing since the invention of the boiled egg to someone else.

Maybe I'll find the answer and be the one to get those trillions. I'd reach for the stars and hire a complete orchestra to sample next time. Who's going to pay me out. I am sure Wonks knows. Wonks is the Peppy Hare of audio engineering who has all the answers.

Obviously to hide the stuff that's more hideous...

Genuinely I thought that would be a sound I could use as a virtual instrument.

I don't get it, but it is good to know.

[amanise]

Now you've asked the trillion billion dollar question! What you think is hideous might be the best thing since the invention of the boiled egg to someone else.

Maybe I'll find the answer and be the one to get those trillions. I'd reach for the stars and hire a complete orchestra to sample next time. Who's going to pay me out. I am sure Wonks knows. Wonks is the Peppy Hare of audio engineering that has all the answers.
...

Perhaps he'll do a barrel roll or something in celebration of this. Can I have some of what you're taking please?

[PippaPumpkin]

Perhaps he'll do a barrel roll or something in celebration of this. Can I have some of what you're taking please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
Here you go!

[Wonks]

Sometimes you just need a bit of something that's a bit different.

Think of the orchestral section in the middle of The Beatles' 'A Day In The Life'. It's chaotic and discordant, but it works as a link between two very different sounding sections of music.

You might not want to create a whole song around such a sound, but less than ideal sounds can be used to spread a little 'ogre dust' (the opposite of 'fairy dust') to perk things up or make the listener go WTF was that!

[amanise]

Perhaps he'll do a barrel roll or something in celebration of this. Can I have some of what you're taking please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
Here you go!

Gosh! All my neurons seem to have been reset! I am reborn!

[Sam Spoons]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlVvM3VKuEk

[amanise]

Well if you're going to go all acoustic on us;

https://youtu.be/sCtJwupHwww?si=Z01dZK6ZZBU3-5xk

[Sam Spoons]

I love the laid back feel if this one

I've been a fan of Hayseed Dixie for years, my band's Rocking in the Free World cover owes more than a little to their version

[amanise]

Far out!
There is no white rabbit emoji...

[PippaPumpkin]

I tried to salvage the library but it did not really work.
https://vocaroo.com/1loRqI4EeRzu

As far I see it now, it might be better to play in multiple layers of every part individually or carefully program midi with a professional software instrument.

My idea was getting something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3g7lVvsoM0&t=170s

[The Elf]

Adding lots of the same solo sample will not end up sounding like an ensemble. Use an ensemble sample to start with.

There are many, many string ensemble samples out there, so I would just use one of them!

[amanise]

The two sounds don't seem that far apart to me - though I am only on earbuds at the moment. Good ones though.

If anything, Bowie's Mellotron sounds the weaker of the two when you compare them like that - but the two parts are very different in terms of tempo.

Your library part was not displeasing - and if its to be a library, I would have thought it needs to be as 'vanilla' as possible while still keeping the character of strings. But I think you could use that sound already as it is in a track if you added something with a modulation effect such as a chorus or gentle flange. I'd definitely use it that way in one of mine.

Is your vision still a general purpose strings library?

[The Elf]

The Bowie example is a Mellotron. Most likely the '3 Violins' from the Mk2, I'd guess. (And played by the genius that is Rick Wakeman.)

If you are trying to create something new I'd avoid aiming for such well-known sounds as an example.

[amanise]

The Bowie example is a Mellotron. Most likely the '3 Violins' from the Mk2, I'd guess. (And played by the genius that is Rick Wakeman.)

Have I blasphemed ?

[PippaPumpkin]

I need to take some time off and come back to it with a fresh perspective. I put so much work into it that I can't objectivly look at it.

Maybe I should look more into things before starting my next project. I think this time my expectations were to high and I didn't get what I was going for.

[Bob Bickerton]

There's a rather good video made by SOS about creating orchestral libraries which you can watch here: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... hapter-one

I think this starts (there's a series) to build the picture of the complexity involved in creating a library anywhere near realistic sounding...... well worth a visit.

Bob

[amanise]

I need to take some time off and come back to it with a fresh perspective. I put so much work into it that I can't objectivly look at it.

Maybe I should look more into things before starting my next project. I think this time my expectations were to high and I didn't get what I was going for.

That's a way of life for me - don't be disheartened. Sometimes you just need to jump in to get something started. Pioneering spirit! I also second Bob's advice about checking out that video series. Bob is like Wonks - only less wonky.

[Arpangel]

A friend wanted strings on a record he was making, this is the friend who can’t stand imitations of anything.
I said why don’t you use a good sample sound, I may as well have called him a person that has physical relations with his mother, the effect was the same.
The studio he was recording at knew of a string quartet, they were duly booked, and they sounded amazing, it wasn’t as expensive as he thought it might be.
The only down-side was that someone had to write an arrangement, on paper, the producer did it as my friend doesn’t write music.
The result was very good indeed, and well worth the effort, sampled strings would never have sounded as good in this case.

[The Elf]

What you've been doing is starting with an idea, taking a sample of something that isn't it, then trying to turn it into the sound in your head.

Loosen up. Take a sample of something and accept it for what it is.

And if you want to create the sound of a Mellotron, then grab some Mellotron samples (there are loads out there - free ones too). The '3 Violins' tape is pretty much the default Mellotron sound.