Zoom L-12 ~ Help!

[kr236rk]

Hi,

Have a track on Channel 1 (music)

I have sung over the track - that works, I played back CH1&2 together, okay.

BUT

How can I ~

a) demo the mix before recording it, &

b) sing with Ch1 in phones, so that I hear both my voice, plus the backing track on Ch1 please?

Zoom will not allow me to hear the whole mix during recording, all I can hear is the backing track through phones - the voice is recording, but not being monitored, as it records, through the phones.

Help please

Thanks!

[The Elf]

Each channel can either be in play or record - not both. The simplest solution to what you are asking is to plug your microphone into the next channel available - Ch3.

A bit odd that your backing is only on one track, hence must be mono. Not that it matters, but odd all the same.

[kr236rk]

OK thanks,

I have the mic in Channel 3.

The slider led lights register that it is active, but no mic sound comes from the 'Phones A' socket.

So I can't sing along to the music track, because only the pre-recorded music tracks play through the phones ~ Ch's 1&2 ~ I can't hear the live mic plugged into Ch3, even though its sound is registered by the green slider lights.

I have been right through the L-12 pdf, there is no information in it, about live-monitoring a take.

So I can't even get levels worked out, because I cannot hear the live mix of channels in my monitoring phones.

How do I do this please?

[Sam Inglis]

Have you selected fader layer A? If the Master button is still illuminated then your fader moves only relate to the master fader layer.

[The Elf]

As above - you need to know which mix you are monitoring, and you need to know and set the fader levels of that mix. I think this is the old 'virtual faders' problem yet again...

Forget busses A-E.

Keep the Fader Mode at 'MASTER' and make sure that the 'PHONES' switch is set at 'MASTER' (the button's up position). Now move all your channel 1-12 faders up and down fully, top to bottom (this makes them pass through, pick up and edit their current 'virtual' position), and then leave them set them around the 0 mark.

If you now press the Fader Mode 'MASTER' button the meters will light up briefly to show you where each of the channels are set for the master bus. This is their virtual position, as opposed to where the fader is set physically. Hopefully right now the lights should match the current fader position. If any are not, move that fader again top to bottom and check again.

That's your master levels set, and you should be able to hear a mic plugged into any input in your (plugged into 'A PHONES') headphones.

Not blessing the LiveTrak with moving faders saved costs, but it seems to lead to confusion with every owner. It's a shame, because they are otherwise excellent little devices. The 'virtual' fader lights are a compromise. Once you 'get it' it's fine, but with moving faders life would be quicker and simpler. I got into the habit of always sweeping the fader top-to-bottom before setting a level.

Also, make sure you understand the function of the 'OVERDUB' button in the record section. That had me scratching my head a few times when I couldn't get tracks into record and previous recordings kept disappearing!

[MarkOne]

Not blessing the LiveTrak with moving faders saved costs, but it seems to lead to confusion with every owner. It's a shame, because they are otherwise excellent little devices. The 'virtual' fader lights are a compromise. Once you 'get it' it's fine, but with moving faders life would be quicker and simpler. I got into the habit of always sweeping the fader top-to-bottom before setting a level.

I went for the L20R for the very reason that I knew the non motorised faders would confuse me, and the virtual faders in the app were effectively “motorised”

[kr236rk]

Thanks Mark & Elf,

Glad it's not just me who has the confusion - usually use [but for computer] a pc interface which is comparatively straightforward, when you want to live-dub.

Once used an analogue Tascam mixer-recorder, which had a much more complicated control panel, but was easier to use, because all the controls were actual, none were virtual.

Will try the L-12 again.

[The Elf]

BTW, I'd get your backing tracks in stereo on channels 11/12. You'll enjoy a more pleasant experience than with a mono backing!

[kr236rk]

Thanks, I think we need to go 1 step at a time here

Followed your instructions, they work, can hear the mic wherever I plug it in the mic/line channels.

BUT ~ same old problem ...

When I run my backing music (on Ch1), the mic sound is cut from the phones - can't hear it, only the backing music.

Ch2 lights up with led mic sound, but nothing comes into the phones.

How do I get the sound from Ch2 (mic) to mesh with the backing music on Ch1, so that I can hear / monitor my live mic-voice in the headphones, plus the backing music I am following please?

[The Elf]

How are you running this backing? Did you record it into the L-12 on Ch1, or is it coming into Ch1 from an external player?

[kr236rk]

I recorded it into Ch1

So now, I can play it back on the L-12, and listen to it.

I somehow managed to add vocals to Ch1, on Ch2, but I couldn't get a mix of both channels in the phones.

So now, I have the backing track on Ch1 and 'best try' vocals on Ch2.

When I hit play, the Project plays the double track.

But the vocals are disappointing, because the L-12 would not allow me to live-monitor them in phones, within the mix.

I do not seem to be able to get a PREVIEW of a mix, when I am live-adding to an original backing track.

[The Elf]

I've just tried what you've described and it works perfectly for me. I can hear my backing, I can hear my previous overdubs, and I can hear myself as I perform the new track.

Are you absolutely sure you are putting the recorded tracks back in 'play' - i.e. green light? And you are switching into 'OVERDUB' after the backing is recorded? Though I can't see how any of this would create the problem you're describing.

I don't believe I can add anything more. I'm struggling to understand what you're doing to create such a problem.

Maybe the next step is to record a detailed video of what you're doing and we can try to spot the problem that way.

[kr236rk]

Thanks. Got it that time - but my 'A' button was down, for headphone (monitoring).

The physical sliders are now inactive - of course - that's a crazy idea of Zoom, it means you can't pull in or pull out audio from the mix, which is what a unit with sliders on was all about.

But, I know you can enable the sliders, but will it allow you to alter levels before mix-down?

The breakthrough came after pressing the over-dub button, without pressing the record button - this allowed me to preview the take in my headphones. Doing that is not mentioned in the pdf.

-----------------

Anyway, take a look at this Zoom L-12 video.

At no point does it examine the audio 'A' button usage.

& at no point does it describe where the audio is issuing from, for the 2nd track to be played over - the guy's head is out of shot, you can't see if he is wearing phones or jamming to speakers, for example.

This is very basic yet vital information to have.

https://youtu.be/VtJ3dGDNFmA?feature=shared

[The Elf]

Thanks. Got it that time - but my 'A' button was down, for headphone (monitoring).

There you go. I did mention that. You were monitoring Bus A, and Bus A must have had a different mix than the 'Master' bus. Busses B, C, D and E can all have different mixes too - and the physical fader positions will not represent these mixes. It's important to grasp this.

You can check any bus mix at any time by pressing its 'Fader Mode' button and the lights will tell you where the virtual faders are.

Given you have no other artists to create separate mixes for... stick with the Master bus.

The physical sliders are now inactive - of course...

Again, if you read my detailed guide above I mention that you can press 'MASTER' (or any 'Fader Mode' bus button) at any time and it will show the current virtual fader positions for that bus. Any fader will only become 'active' when it moves through that virtual point, so wiggle it from top to bottom and you will aquire control. But be aware that you are only affecting the level of that channel/track in the bus you have selected under 'Fader Mode'!

[kr236rk]

Thanks - this is very confusing, but I am making progress

Previous to SOS, I went into the Menu & opted for Record Level YES

that might have some bearing on what happened next -

I deselected 'Master' on the Fader Mode panel, & clicked on 'A' there, turning it red. That suddenly got me slider-fader control over the two tracks.

Am still very hazy over EFX - ideally I'd want to customise those to each individual channel / track ~ can this be done please?

[The Elf]

Am still very hazy over EFX - ideally I'd want to customise those to each individual channel / track ~ can this be done please?

There's just one FX processor, shared between all the tracks on one send bus. Think of the FX as a 'nice to have' - great for a bit of 'confidence reverb', but of limited value beyond that, I'd say.

You could use those busses A-E to create mixes to external hardware FX processors, but you would have to dedicate input channels to bring them back into the mix. And by the time you've bought some external FX you're into the realms where a computer-based DAW would arguably be a better investment of time and money.

But TBH it's all a bit much for such a simple little scratchpad mixer. The LiveTraks aren't intended to be the last word in multi-track production. What they will do is provide a quick-draw sketch pad, and if you get the start of something good you can export the audio to a computer DAW to begin to add the polish.

Even better, the LiveTrak can send all of its input channels separately to a connected computer, such that it becomes a very capable multi-channel audio interface - at the same time as recording internally. This is how I use mine for live recordings of some of the acts I perform with.

Love and accept the LiveTrak for what it is. More sophisticated recording and mixing options can come later.

[kr236rk]

Many thanks,

Just need a 'no computer' option, every now & then, and the L-12 is giving me that at the moment.

Added another track - bass guitar - got the same problem to begin with, leds lighting ~ no sound.

Don't know what I did exactly, fiddled with the Fader Mode & Scene buttons but, crucially, I think, drew all the faders down, then reset them up at zero.

Then the bass sounded with the other tracks - this is an odd piece of kit.

-------------------------

So could I export individual tracks to my DAW (Mixcraft) to add effects to them, please?

Not a huge problem for guitar, because there are so many stomp boxes available, but vocals could really do with reverb on them, though - my voice needs all the help it can get

[kr236rk]

Re. EFX

Would it not be simpler to hook up something like a Yamaha MG06X Mixing Console to the L-12?

That way you get, for example, reverb vocals - directly into the mix.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/pa-mixers/y ... ects-mg06x

[The Elf]

Re. EFX

Would it not be simpler to hook up something like a Yamaha MG06X Mixing Console to the L-12?

That way you get, for example, reverb vocals - directly into the mix.

A mixing desk is overkill. It seems odd to buy yet another mixer just for its effects, especially when you already have a reverb for vocals built into the L-12. And that Yamaha mixer (I have one) is an entry level device - I wouldn't expect much from its effects.

If you're really set on this path... grab an FX processor and hook it up to the L-12 via its bus outputs and a couple of input channels. I like the Zoom MS-70CDR for a cheap-but-great effects machine. You'll need to get to grips with those A-E bus mixes to handle it.

But I really think you're nailing Carlos Fandango alloy wheels on a Robin Reliant here...

[kr236rk]

Thanks,

So, can I reverb vocals, on the L-12, on their own please - one channel - without affecting all the other tracks / channels?

I'm still very much on the learning curve here.

If I can dedicate effects to one track only, how do I do it please?

[The Elf]

Select ('SEL' button) the vocal channel and turn up the FX send control over in the 'Channel Strip' section.

Raise the FX channel's fader that feeds the Master bus.

I'd suggest setting and leaving the FX channel fader at the 0 mark and adjusting the amount of reverb with the vocal channel's FX send control. You can add variable amounts of reverb (or none) to any channel this way, but it's the same reverb for all channels - just like the good old days of hardware FX.

[kr236rk]

Thanks. Ch2 is selected & - after restarting the track - the reverb is coming out of Ch1

Can see all sorts of fun resulting from this, when I try to mix down a take.

Am going to look for something which will just add reverb to vocals, I wouldn't need EFX on anything else.

All is cool though - at last I have an alternative to my pc DAW, for working ideas out in rough

[The Elf]

Thanks. Ch2 is selected & - after restarting the track - the reverb is coming out of Ch1...

No, the reverb is *not* 'coming out of Ch1'. If that appears to be the case it simply means that you have the FX send level turned up on Ch1. It also suggests that you are not truly understanding how an effects send/return system works.

The reverb has its own (stereo) channel and fader. It never comes out of any channel but it's own, under control of that fader. You can prove this to yourself by raising and lowering the FX return fader. You are *sending to* the effect from the other (1-12) channels.

Hope that makes sense. It's important to grasp this, or it will remain a mystery and lead to confusion.

[kr236rk]

Thanks, I have only ever used Bus 'A'

My phones are plugged into the A socket, which has two button options, up & down.

Currently, I am now turning EFX down to zero [no effects] because I find them too confusing, while trying to come to terms with all the other aspects of this unit - but I am making progress, I have a multi-track project.

What is the usb lead / pc interconnect-ability, please?

Can the L-12 'talk' to my pc, & vice versa?

[kr236rk]

In the Monitor Out section:

The A button up / Master A, gets me Ch1.

The A button down / Phones A, gets me all channels

BUT

Ch1 on this setting, has the EFX, no other channels have it.

I wanted EFX on Channel 2 (vocals).

What have I done wrong please?

How can I remove EFX from Ch1 & get them onto Ch2?