Can anyone recommend hard disc recorder that interacts with 1995 Mackie board

[aifrecords]

tired of my da 88 tapes being chewed up, someone said use alesis hd24 that does plug into my mackie 24.8 8 bus mixer from 1995 with analog ins and outs BUT a mix revew of alesis hd 24 says" does not allow multiple track takes". what does that really mean? I cant record 8 tracks of drums all at once while drummer bangs away one performance of a song? and i dont want to deal with computers i like the real feel of old boards and rack equipment, anyone know of anything that records 24 tracks onto hard disk or cd that hooks up t and interacts with an old mackie board with analog ins and outs or have experience with the hd24?

[Arpangel]

This,

https://joeco.co.uk/bbr1b-joeco-multi- ... -recorder/

I know one happy user who loves it. Also cheaper similar things from Cymatic.

https://cymaticaudio.com/

[ajay_m]

Except that latter web site says they've shut down by the looks of it and "no longer offer support".
Maybe more practical to just move to a digital mixer that can directly multitrack record to a usb drive perhaps as at least the vendors (e.g A&H) might be around for a fair while?.

[Wonks]

Yes, Cymatic have gone.

[James Perrett]

BUT a mix revew of alesis hd 24 says" does not allow multiple track takes". what does that really mean? I cant record 8 tracks of drums all at once while drummer bangs away one performance of a song?

If you just want to replace your DA88s then the HD24 will work fine (although any it uses the ADAT 9 pin protocol for remote control rather than Tascam's control standard). Multiple track takes are something that were added to certain hard disk recorders which meant that you could go back and punch in on a section without erasing the old performance. You could then choose whether to use the old or new performance. This did away with having to use a new track for each take if you wanted to keep the previous takes.

Nowadays we take this kind of thing for granted on a computer but it was a new feature that could only be achieved with a computer based system (which is what a hard disk recorder is).

The HD24 will record up to 24 tracks at once so you would have no problem recording a full drumkit with it.

PS - it might also be worth looking for an old RADAR system. These were considered to have better convertors than the Mackie and Alesis hard disk recorders.

[adrian_k]

I briefly looked at the JoeCo device some time ago for live recording. I couldn’t see how you could do overdubs, which seems to be a requirement for the OP. I may have missed something though - worth contacting them to clarify.

[Matt Houghton]

An Alesis HD24 will do what you want — I have one here and I can confirm you can arm each track individually and record up to 24 tracks at once. The original fans were a bit noisy — I replaced mine with modern near-silent ones for a just a few quid. Note that it uses IDE/EIDE drives. There are some cartridges that accept SATA drives, but they are very hard to come by now, and for some reason the usual EIDE<>SATA adapter cards don't seem to work reliably in this system. If you want remote control, the LRC is pretty good. The BRC is great if you can get it working, but that can be more fiddly to set up (it was designed for multiple ADAT machines, really, not for the HD24).

There were similar machines by Mackie (HDR, SDR) and Fostex (2424LV) around the same time. There were various Tascam models too. The best from that era is probably the RADAR system, originally by Otari and later by IZ Corp.

As other have said, Cymatic came out with a recorder or two. One 16 track, one 24 track (as well as a card for the Behringer X32). But (a) they are no more and (b) they didn't allow individual track arming/overdubs. Allen & Heath had a similar thing to the Cymatic recorders called the ICE-16, but that only captured 16 tracks.

In terms of current devices, the JoeCo range fits the bill very well. And some audio interfaces can record direct to USB. Or you can use a computer, of course, just as a glorified tape machine... but you've said you won't want to do that!

[Matt Houghton]

I briefly looked at the JoeCo device some time ago for live recording. I couldn’t see how you could do overdubs, which seems to be a requirement for the OP. I may have missed something though - worth contacting them to clarify.

I'd always thought that, since you can arm tracks for recording individually, overdubs are possible. But punch-ins and drop-ins on already recorded tracks are not. But don't take my word for it... this is from memory of editing a review many moons ago (over 14 years' worth of moons to be precise...), and things might have moved on since then. Certainly they've come out with more models, and I imagine firmware updates too. If interested in it, I'd definitely drop JoeCo a line...

[Sam Spoons]

I may well be wrong but I seem to remember that there was no sync facility on the original JoeCo meaning you couldn't simultaneously play back a previously recorded tracks and record to another?

[Wonks]

Reading through the brochure for the JoeCo Black Box units, there’s no mention of overdubbing. It seems very orientated to just recording live events and then getting them into a DAW for editing

Even the Blue Box units, with more features and an ability to act as an audio interface, can’t overdub.

[adrian_k]

I may well be wrong but I seem to remember that there was no sync facility on the original JoeCo meaning you couldn't simultaneously play back a previously recorded tracks and record to another?

Yeah this is what I thought.

[Matt Houghton]

It was so much more likely that I was wrong (I've not laid hands and ears on one for over a decade) that I just picked up the phone ad talked it through with JoeCo...

The BlackBox doesn't allow overdubbing. JoeCo did look into it shortly after the BBR came out, but the cost of development, coupled with the potential impact on stability for the live market and the small size of the market for overdubbing facilities led them to decide against it. Might it happen in the future? Never say never, to paraphrase. But it's not in their immediate plans. Their Blue Box Recorder does, of course, double up as an audio interface, so you could track a full band session on the recorder, and then overdub in the DAW. But that's not what OP's after.

So it looks like the options are all old devices, as described above. The RADAR was the pick of the bunch, really. Though since lots of them have digital I/O as well as analogue, you could augment them with modern converters. At the end of the day, they're all basically old computers with built in converters...

[MarkOne]

At the end of the day, they're all basically old computers with built in converters...

And that's really the issue isn't it.

When a lot of these devices came out, their raison d'etre was to replace the expensive 24 track Studer, or Otari hooked up to a big analog desk.

The big desk is still there in a lot of studios, but more often than not it's being used a glorified laptop stand and monitor controller.

I can sympathise with the OP in some ways, but the market isn't there for a company to invest, I'm afraid.

[Matt Houghton]

To be fair, a decent desk is pretty bloomin' handy when you're capturing 24 tracks from a multitude of artists. All the mic and line preamps you could want. Easiest way to set up genuinely zero-latency cue mixes. Monitor control. Etc. And the second hand prices are through the floor these days. Analogue ones aren't great for mixing though, unless you're prepared to work on one track at a time and don't need recall for revisions etc.

TBH, I'd kinda like a DAW control surface that resembles the Alesis BRC. None of the faders and all that gubbins. Just transport functions, buttons to arm/unarm each of 24 tracks for recording, some metering, and a few other basic controls. Then you could pretty much run a session like a tape machine and never have to look at the screen.

But yeah, the market for dedicated studio recorder like this would be a very risky one for a company to invest in.

[Sam Spoons]

It's not that difficult to set up a dedicated computer and DAW as a pseudo tape recorder, it is basically how I run my studio (though in my case I have an X32 as the front end but a suitable audio interface and an analogue mixer would work just as well). I use Reaper with a few different templates to suit whatever I'm recording but it would be trivially simple to have Reaper start up with a template containing a track for each mixer channel routed back to the corresponding return via the interface for overdubs/replay/mixing just as if the interface and DAW were a tape machine.

[OneWorld]

It's not that difficult to set up a dedicated computer and DAW as a pseudo tape recorder, it is basically how I run my studio (though in my case I have an X32 as the front end but a suitable audio interface and an analogue mixer would work just as well). I use Reaper with a few different templates to suit whatever I'm recording but it would be trivially simple to have Reaper start up with a template containing a track for each mixer channel routed back to the corresponding return via the interface for overdubs/replay/mixing just as if the interface and DAW were a tape machine.

I used to be a committed Hard Disk recorder man, but after having tried so many different set-ups I finally relented and settled on a DAW set-up, the flexibility makes for a compelling reason to go for DAW. But I just record at home, a hobbyist.

A friend of mine took early retirement from his day job and set up a mobile recording outfit, based on a PC, brave man I thought. However he was a highly skilled engineer. Everything was in a rack on wheels - 2 interfaces giving 16 analogue in +32 ADAT, rack PC, a 15inch monitor in the lid of the rack casing

He has since quite for health reasons. But I ask myself how would he go on today, with current Windows demanding an internet connections, updates pestering every 5 mins, how could anyone run a mobile recording setup with the operating system demanding to be tethered to the internet?

That of course would never worry a HDD recorder. Seems the best option is record on location using a HDD and transfer to computer in the studio?

I would happily chop off my Windows connection and never have it connect to the internet again

[adrian_k]

My Windows 11 laptop works perfectly well for mobile recording, no internet connection. Maybe because I don’t login in with a Microsoft ID?

[Arpangel]

PS - it might also be worth looking for an old RADAR system. These were considered to have better convertors than the Mackie and Alesis hard disk recorders.

I was going to mention RADAR to the OP, but didn’t, as it's still a computer "style" interface, but AFA sound quality is concerned, it’s still one of the best IMO.

[Matt Houghton]

PS - it might also be worth looking for an old RADAR system. These were considered to have better convertors than the Mackie and Alesis hard disk recorders.

I was going to mention RADAR to the OP, but didn’t, as it's still a computer "style" interface, but AFA sound quality is concerned, it’s still one of the best IMO.

Yes, though as I say above, as they have digital I/O as well as analogue you could use external converters with any of them if you really want to.

[Matt Houghton]

It's not that difficult to set up a dedicated computer and DAW as a pseudo tape recorder, it is basically how I run my studio (though in my case I have an X32 as the front end but a suitable audio interface and an analogue mixer would work just as well). I use Reaper with a few different templates to suit whatever I'm recording but it would be trivially simple to have Reaper start up with a template containing a track for each mixer channel routed back to the corresponding return via the interface for overdubs/replay/mixing just as if the interface and DAW were a tape machine.

Yes, it's easy with any DAW to do that. I was thinking more about whether you want hands-on control of such things to avoid lots of scrolling and mouse movements. Most control surfaces take up so much space because they have lots of features that lots of people don't use half the time. A touchscreen can work well for that. Or a tablet with a configurable hotkey app etc.

[OneWorld]

My Windows 11 laptop works perfectly well for mobile recording, no internet connection. Maybe because I don’t login in with a Microsoft ID?

Yes I wondered about that and despite Microsofts pestering and cajoling, put a new PC into service and invoked a local login and not the Microsoft ID. So it seems from what you say a Win10/11 machine can enjoy an unfettered existence without an internet connection and not a care in the world. App updates downloaded onto another machine.

I think if I were the OP, I would explore that option before buying into the hard disk recorder option. With my PC, and using templates in my DAW, and a control surface, I almost have the equivalent of a HDR, I have sort of backward engineered the PC/DAW to replicate a HDR, MIDI Track 1.......8 will have the same instruments, 9.....16 other instruments specific to a song, and the same with Audio and VST tracks works a treat

[ajay_m]

I think the combination of a DAW and a digital mixer that can act as a control surface, audio interface and mixer is pretty unbeatable and certainly I am very happy with having gone down that path. It makes multi-track recording about as little of a faff as it can be, and modern laptops are pretty reliable. Of course, Reaper runs on Linux as well so if you were really determined you could potentially build a dedicated recording setup that doesn't run Windows at all.

[Sam Spoons]

Of course, Reaper runs on Linux as well so if you were really determined you could potentially build a dedicated recording setup that doesn't run Windows at all.

You can have that without needing to be determined, just buy a Mac and away you go*. FWIW I haven't used Windows seriously since XP, Win ME put me off and while I did have a dabble with Win 7 on the office PC I switched to Macs in the studio and haven't looked back. If Windoze is your sole reason for trying to build a computer free system Mac OS is definitely worth a look.

* I know I sometimes come across as an Apple fanboi but I was very anti Apple for a long time until Microsoft started taking Windows along the "mummy knows best" route. The reason I returned to hardware some 20 years ago was that I was spending lots of time playing computers and very little playing music. A few years later I was offered a Mac Pro G5 (the original cheesegrater) for not much money, stuck Reaper on it and it just worked so I have had no strong reason to try anything different.

[ceejay]

An Alesis HD24 will do what you want

... yep, I just picked up two of them a few months back to replace my ancient Protools rig as a mobile recording device with a Soundcraft 328 Digital desk ...