Music Notation app

[Sam Spoons]

Harking back to the 'reading music' conversation a few weeks ago I'm looking for a very basic notation app so I can write simple lead sheets. I have iReal Pro but it doesn't have melodies (for copyright reasons) like a 'Real Book' would so I can do chord charts but not lead sheets. The fiddle player at the gypsy sessions is a reader not a busker so chords are not enough for him.

Any suggestions for something iPad or MacBook based? I don't mind a paid app but it's for occasional use so can't justify loads of money. And the simpler the better, input from a midi device, touch screen or virtual keyboard, or I may upgrade the iPad to something with Apple Pencil (now that really sounds like a plan)...

[adrian_k]

Are you on Reaper? Can you not input the notes on a midi device, tidy up, view notation, export PDF? I’m not a Reaper user (yet) but this seemed to be possible when I looked at it recently. Probably OK for casual use?

{edit} PS, on another subject, I had the pleasure of hearing a service user making good use of your amp yesterday, thanks again for your generosity

[RichardT]

I would look at Musescore. It’s free. I don’t know how well it does chord symbols though.

You could also look at Dorico for iPad, which has a free version with limited functions. I’m not sure about chord symbols in the free version either.

[merlyn]

I use Musescore. It's a complete notation editor, so I wouldn't say it's simple or basic. I would imagine there's a learning curve, but for lead sheets that isn't going to be too steep.

When you start up Musescore select 'new score'. There are templates available. Select Jazz > Jazz Lead Sheet and you're away. This uses the more friendly looking jazz font. To add chords select the note you want the chord above and hit 'Ctrl + k'. A box appears where you can type in the chord symbol.

[Kwackman]

As you're a guitarist, maybe Guitar Pro?
https://www.guitar-pro.com/

[ajay_m]

Reaper doesn't always create what I would call idiomatic results, but it depends on how rhythmically complex your charts are. Certainly a good starting point since it'll cost you nothing to check it out.

[Sam Spoons]

Thanks, I have tried muse-score merlin, I think maybe I'll persevere with that, as you say it ain't intuitive (but is anything that does more than the basics?) and Reaper which I know fairly well, should work ok for midi input.

Now on a related question, has anybody had first hand experience of buying a refurbished iPad from an online retailer? Thinking an iPad Mini6 and Apple Pencil setup as my Mini 4 is getting long in the tooth (and doesn't support the AP)? I'd buy new but iPad Mini6's seem fiendishly expensive at £539 when a Gen 10 10.9" is £380 (both Costco) and I don't want a 'full size' iPad.

[merlyn]

Eh, so intuitive usually means "is it easy to use the first time?". Drag and drop, point and click. Pfffft. Things that are easy to use the first time can be annoying once you've used them for a while.

Getting to know the keyboard shortcuts helps. The main thing to realise with Musescore is that there are two modes -- inputting notes, and editing what you've put in. To switch between inputting and editing use 'n', for 'new note'.

[Sam Spoons]

I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. Have you used it on an iPad with the Apple Pencil? My mate says the AP is brilliant (bass player and video sfx and graphics designer).

[merlyn]

No Apple here. BTW Musescore runs on Linux.

[Sam Spoons]

Just been looking at MuseScore and the music editor is not available on iOS. I think it might be useful on the MBP but I would think I wound like a touch screen editor on the iPad too.

FWIW this one looks brilliant but it's not cheap at £80... https://www.staffpad.net/#StaffPad

[merlyn]

Interesting. Like Musescore, Staffpad has been bought by Muse Group.

Part of Musescore, dating from before it got bought over, is the website which has a ton of sheet music :

https://musescore.com/sheetmusic

You may find the lead sheets you want there.

[Sam Spoons]

Not this one (it's one of mine) but yes that feature would be useful. Definitely thinking an iPad and Apple Pencil (I'm all Apple these days) is going to be the way to go for me though.

[merlyn]

Just be aware that an Apple pencil isn't a shortcut to knowing how to write notation.

[Sam Spoons]

Touche

Hopefully it will help me learn by supplying a more direct connection between brain and page. And, with the right app, I'll be able to play back what I have written to see if I got it right. I could just play the notes in using midi but if I am going to try to read music better then that seems like as good a way to go about it as any.

[sonics]

For iPad:

PreSonus Notion Mobile ($19.99)
or
Steinberg Dorico
"Dorico is free to use, allowing you to write for ensembles of one or two players (such as solo guitar, voice and piano, etc.). Register with your free Steinberg ID to increase the player limit to four, allowing you to write for ensembles like string or wind quartet, or SATB choir."
For more features the sub is $4.99/month.

[Sam Spoons]

Well I bought a used iPad Mini gen 6 and an Apple Pencil 2 from Cash Generator, Apple's price for the same two items is a moustache curling £888 so I feel I've done ok for £415

[Sam Spoons]

Continuing the "to read or not to read" conversation, over the weekend I got to play with a whole range of musicians from folkies to full on classical only reading players and all standards from basically competent up. I assisted at the Sat am Gypsy Jazz Beginners workshop and the one (self confessed ‘plays from music’) classical guitarist has been dabbling in GJ for a few years but still can’t make the break away from the dots. The folkies don't find improv easy either though 'cos they are used to learning the tunes and don't usually improvise much.

At the full on sessions most of the best gypsy jazz players were non-readers. The fiddle players were probably the notable exception with at least one having a ‘proper’ orchestral background (she plays first in OON as her day job) and is a great example of being able to do both as she is equally at home playing gypsy jazz, trad folk or bluegrass tunes (extremely well BTW).

WRT learning to read/write music I’m still trying to find the best iPad app for writing head sheets out via Apple Pencil and handwriting recognition. Currently have ‘Notate Me’ and ‘Notion’ free versions in test. Definite progress being made too which is gratifying.

[merlyn]

What I would take out of that is that the professional musician could read and improvise. That sums it up. All the professional musicians I know can read and improvise, including drummers. For amateurs ... it doesn't really matter, does it?

[tea for two]

What I would take out of that is that the professional musician could read and improvise. That sums it up. All the professional musicians I know can read and improvise, including drummers. For amateurs ... it doesn't really matter, does it?

Merlyn woooot are you on abooot. There's untold professionals in famouse and or massive bands from 1960s-now that either can't read or limited reading yet their playing is world class in their field.
Session professional musicians that's different they are required to read including for instance Nashville chart.

[merlyn]

I just got back home from a gig where I was reading. Our usual singer was ill, so we had another singer -- a 'dep' as it's called in the trade. He brought lead sheets with the melody. This meant I could incorporate parts of the melody into my solos.

tea for two, you do realise I'm referring to professional musicians I personally know? How many professional musicians do you know? (You don't need to answer that as in some of your posts you describe yourself as a musical lamer )

[Sam Spoons]

What I would take out of that is that the professional musician could read and improvise. That sums it up. All the professional musicians I know can read and improvise, including drummers. For amateurs ... it doesn't really matter, does it?

Well, I know numerous professional musicians and amongst the orchestral players and classical guitarists vanishingly few can improvise or busk with any degree of confidence (if at all). The reason is, simply, that it is of no value in their careers. WRT these particular gypsy jazz sessions the fact is that some of the professional musicians who were there can read (specifically the jazzer/sessioneer and the orchestral violinist). More of them (I would guess that at least half of the players at this session earn all of their income from music) in this genre, can't. Go to an orchestra rehearsal and everybody can read but I'd guess that only 10% can improvise, go to a blues jam session and the opposite applies.

[merlyn]

It has been said elsewhere that the US produces musicians, and the UK produces pop stars. To me part of learning an instrument is learning to read, and I don't imagine there is the same hoo-ha around dots in the US as there is in the UK whatever style of music a student learns.

Early on I got the advice

If you don't learn everything, you have to count on being a star. If you're not counting on being a star, you have to learn everything.

If we look at prominent musicians (actually prominent Youtubers) from the US like Rick Beato and Adam Neely there is absolutely no fuss around dots. They're just there as part of the musical fabric, with no question about whether notation is a good idea or not.

For any young people learning their instrument who are reading this thread, learning to read won't make your musical soul plummet to hell, and you don't have to be a slave to the dots.