PP - I've Been Drifting... (Amoung the Stars)

[PippaPumpkin]

Hello,

I have written a ballad in this kind of style:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A570QU91i-4&t=416s

I've Been Drifting... (Amoung the Stars)

1.

to be one inbetween the stars
floating aimlessy like jellyfish
not for long but even in the dark
there are lights for some hope

in the depths of endless nights

kind remarks like apples so sweet
fall silently around my feet
like the clouds it's beyond my control
in it's way the night grows cold

through the shadows where I stray

Bridge

in the depths of sleep
I drift alone
saturn's rings and stars
for me not to reach nor own

Chorus

miles apart oceans wide
dreams and memories closely tied
Like the moon and seas so far apart
I've been drifiting amoung the stars

space travel took me far away
beyond the discoball lost in the milky way
like the fish and dove so far apart
I've been drifiting...

amoung the stars

2.

deep in space a journey unknown
chasing dreams holding stones
distant roses bloom on my way
in the galaxy's embrace

spinning in the darkness of space

overwhelmed by the journey ahead
forgotton words echo through my head
across the distant starlights
the path ahead still unclear

like the rain hides all tears

Bridge

in the depths of sleep
I drift alone
saturn's rings and stars
for me not to reach nor own

Chorus

miles apart oceans wide
dreams and memories closely tied
like the moon and seas so far apart
I've been drifiting amoung the stars

space travel took me far away
beyond the discoball lost in the milky way
like the fish and dove so far apart
I've been drifiting...

amoung the stars

break

lonely nights and starry skies
dreaming of what lies behind that moon
inspired by a fantasy that lingers
in the light between my fingers

Chorus

miles apart oceans wide
dreams and memory closely tied
like the moon and seas so far apart
I've been drifiting amoung the stars

space travel took me far away
beyond the discoball lost in the milky way
like the fish and dove so far apart
I've been drifiting...

amoung the stars

Feel free to share your thoughts.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Parts of that reminded me of feelings I put into one of my poems (web link in my sig, if you're interested.) Especially the bit about how it's there for all, but we can never own it. Mine (the one about unearthly light) was partly influenced by a stunning moonrise over a reservoir I wasn't supposed to be swimming in, and partly by the early works of Samuel R Delany. I never did understand how to set my poems to music, though several people had urged me to try.

[PippaPumpkin]

Hello LGF,

thank you for your response and reading my songtext.

Parts of that reminded me of feelings I put into one of my poems (web link in my sig, if you're interested.)

I've read some of the 31 poems on this site. I can tell that you are much better with words than I am.

Especially the bit about how it's there for all, but we can never own it. Mine (the one about unearthly light) was partly influenced by a stunning moonrise over a reservoir I wasn't supposed to be swimming in, and partly by the early works of Samuel R Delany.

Can you tell me why the sun is blue in your poem?

I never did understand how to set my poems to music, though several people had urged me to try.

I think it would fit nicely as a songtext.

[amanise]

Gosh! She's singing in French too! First, what are you looking for from posting your lyrics? I find writing a very personal thing - so you have to be tough sometimes It's also really difficult across different languages - what's your target language for this one? I admire anyone who tries this in anything other than their mother tongue, and I'm always very humbled by people who can speak more than one - which is most of the world apart from England

[Lostgallifreyan]

Parts of that reminded me of feelings I put into one of my poems (web link in my sig, if you're interested.)

I've read some of the 31 poems on this site. I can tell that you are much better with words than I am.

Thankyou. It's not as easy in realtime though, as you will know. Your phrases can be very vivid, interesting, and it's like good riffs, takes time to learn so one can later be produced in a moment. I used to take a long time on some poems, some came quickly. The 'unearthly light' one was fairly fast, about a day, with extra time taken to get the last verse how I wanted it. (By contrast, 'The Winter Slopes' took weeks, based on notes taken during three days on the coast of Pembrokeshire. Some of the reduction and shaping of that was during several days living with travellers in Gloucestershire later in the same year, but I don't think that detail affected the result, I just did it when I had some time alone.)

One thing that gets mine solid is to capture all I want to put in, but then I will try to compress it, omit anything that doesn't help it along. My posts here show how much I will usually talk if I don't take care to limit it!

Can you tell me why the sun is blue in your poem?

That's to do with the Pleiades, they are hot giant stars with short intense lives compared to the Sun, and they appear bluish like a hot flame, if the view is magnified. (And the 'spectral clouds' seen around the ship are based on how the rest of the stars might look if you can travel fast enough to make a visit to the Pleiades feasible..)

I think it would fit nicely as a songtext.

Some of them were definitely based on that as a plan, but I could never pick out the notes or figure out the timing for delivery. I hear a song that does it to perfection, like some of Bob Dylan's, and all I can think of is how does he make it sound so perfect? I couldn't do it without a state of mind I don't know how to do. I think I discovered in the years since, that I was better at making an instrument than at making music (but the attempt to be musical really helps to make a good instrument).

[PippaPumpkin]

The 'unearthly light' one was fairly fast, about a day, with extra time taken to get the last verse how I wanted it. (By contrast, 'The Winter Slopes' took weeks, based on notes taken during three days on the coast of Pembrokeshire. Some of the reduction and shaping of that was during several days living with travellers in Gloucestershire later in the same year, but I don't think that detail affected the result, I just did it when I had some time alone.)

I see. Since I for the most part don't publish anything, I often work in multiple layers, without ever finishing anything (in most cases). With this one I just went for it and released it here.

One thing that gets mine solid is to capture all I want to put in, but then I will try to compress it, omit anything that doesn't help it along. My posts here show how much I will usually talk if I don't take care to limit it!

Okay. For me it is more like I have to cut down on words to make it work as a song text. This is one of the thoughest challenges for me. Since you intend for some of your works to be poems, there are different restrictions. I would add a line that doesn't expand on much, only to get the structure to work in a song. This limits how focused or compressed it can be. I wouldn't try to write poems like you do, since I am not good with words and not as knowledgable to evoke themes that built a coherent narrative.

That's to do with the Pleiades, they are hot giant stars with short intense lives compared to the Sun, and they appear bluish like a hot flame, if the view is magnified. (And the 'spectral clouds' seen around the ship are based on how the rest of the stars might look if you can travel fast enough to make a visit to the Pleiades feasible..)

I see, there is a nice depth to your work. It is interesting, in english it is known as the seven sisters while in japanese (subaru) it is six stars. I think numbers can be a handy tool if you want to evoke certain themes without wasting much space. This is very useful for song texts, but I am no good at it. I am often suprised how sophisticated others works can be if you really look into it.

Some of them were definitely based on that as a plan, but I could never pick out the notes or figure out the timing for delivery. I hear a song that does it to perfection, like some of Bob Dylan's, and all I can think of is how does he make it sound so perfect? I couldn't do it without a state of mind I don't know how to do. I think I discovered in the years since, that I was better at making an instrument than at making music (but the attempt to be musical really helps to make a good instrument).

Maybe you can make something that is imprefect and incrementaly work on those imprefect iterations over time.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Since I for the most part don't publish anything, I often work in multiple layers, without ever finishing anything (in most cases). With this one I just went for it and released it here.

As good a place as any, and maybe better than most. I never published either, I just put them on my web site and let them take their chances. I sometimes mention one if it helps make a point better than many words might, if the subject comes up. Like here, for example..

For me it is more like I have to cut down on words to make it work as a song text. This is one of the thoughest challenges for me. Since you intend for some of your works to be poems, there are different restrictions.

That's interesting, because one restriction I place is that the result must be sayable, it has to work if spoken aloud. That might be the way in to making music for them, if I could stand to listen to my own voice long enough to figure that out. Maybe that's the block, because I genuinely hate the sound of my own voice. I never tried many microphones because I never heard one that made me feel any better about the sound I make. Someone recorded me in front of an audience once, and they all liked it. Cognitive dissonance it may be, but I never overcame it.

About the Japanese 'subaru', that fits. I could never see more than 6 by eye. There has been speculation that a big one went supernova since the ancient Greeks named the star cluster, but I doubt it, there'd be a supernova remnant still there that might be well-defined and easily visible, even after a few thousand years. (I think they're only about 600 light years away.)

About numbers, I agree. Sometimes in electronics, there is magic in the ratio of values of two resistors. Stranger yet, the 'magic' doesn't vanish in the precise world of digital stuff. It's inherent to the numbers themselves. I don't know if any poets have explored this much, though plenty of poets were mathematicians too.

Maybe you can make something that is imprefect and incrementaly work on those imprefect iterations over time.

That's how it usually works for me. It can be extremely slow, but the nice thing about making a synth, is that the result can be expressed directly as audio, so we can evaluate the effect of a million fluently changing samples in a few tens of seconds.

It works both ways too.. I sometimes think the 'big data' problem many scientists have might be solved if they rendered their sensor data as 24-bit values and open as a raw file in Sound Forge and zoom in and out to look at it there. It's a great way to look for patterns quickly, on many scales, all within a few minutes at most. Sorry, way off-topic, but I like to follow these leads wherever they go. Can't beat curiosity. I doubt I could live without it.

[PippaPumpkin]

That's interesting, because one restriction I place is that the result must be sayable, it has to work if spoken aloud. That might be the way in to making music for them, if I could stand to listen to my own voice long enough to figure that out. Maybe that's the block, because I genuinely hate the sound of my own voice. I never tried many microphones because I never heard one that made me feel any better about the sound I make. Someone recorded me in front of an audience once, and they all liked it. Cognitive dissonance it may be, but I never overcame it.

Maybe you could try to approach your performance like an actor. When you study your poem closely and try different charateristics in the way you deliver it you might end up with something that doesn't sound anything like you. If you take a microphone and headphones and work with the mic and different ways of speaking, like different characters would speak, you might find something you like. The trick is to have you poem deeply memorised so you can turn off your thoughts and just go for different approaches without thinking about it.

About the Japanese 'subaru', that fits. I could never see more than 6 by eye. There has been speculation that a big one went supernova since the ancient Greeks named the star cluster, but I doubt it, there'd be a supernova remnant still there that might be well-defined and easily visible, even after a few thousand years. (I think they're only about 600 light years away.)

You know way more about these things than I do.

About numbers, I agree. Sometimes in electronics, there is magic in the ratio of values of two resistors. Stranger yet, the 'magic' doesn't vanish in the precise world of digital stuff. It's inherent to the numbers themselves. I don't know if any poets have explored this much, though plenty of poets were mathematicians too.

I believe that magic and numbers are closely tied, but I am clueless about the details.

That's how it usually works for me. It can be extremely slow, but the nice thing about making a synth, is that the result can be expressed directly as audio, so we can evaluate the effect of a million fluently changing samples in a few tens of seconds.

Do you built Synthesizers?

It works both ways too.. I sometimes think the 'big data' problem many scientists have might be solved if they rendered their sensor data as 24-bit values and open as a raw file in Sound Forge and zoom in and out to look at it there. It's a great way to look for patterns quickly, on many scales, all within a few minutes at most. Sorry, way off-topic, but I like to follow these leads wherever they go. Can't beat curiosity. I doubt I could live without it.

This is beyond me.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Maybe you could try to approach your performance like an actor. When you study your poem closely and try different charateristics in the way you deliver it you might end up with something that doesn't sound anything like you.

That might be worse. It might end up not feeling like me.. I don't mind speaking them aloud, it's just the recorded result i can't stand, and to analyse that is the hurdle I can't overcome, when considering setting any to music. Anyway, I can live with leaving them as they are.

Do you built Synthesizers?

I do, in software, though given the extremely low latency I get with MME WaveOut on specific hardware, I'm seriously considering selling as complete systems for that purpose, IF there is some hardware that works as well as mine, but is easier to find. Right now I only have enough full sets of hardware for four systems. That could be great for demonstration purposes, but not for sales.

I don't know how to add ASIO to my C code compiled with GCC, and there's apparently no generic DLL to use to reach the hardware's own asio driver. I don't know about coding for plugins either. I just built it as a separate bit of software that runs on any Windows since W98, but I don't think anyone wants such separate programs anymore. Everyone wants plugins..

[tea for two]

I genuinely hate the sound of my own voice. I never tried many microphones because I never heard one that made me feel any better about the sound I make. Someone recorded me in front of an audience once, and they all liked it.

Have you tried singing into yourself : not projecting your voice. When you do so looking downwards with your eyes into yourself : not lifting your eyes to not look at anything else.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I genuinely hate the sound of my own voice. I never tried many microphones because I never heard one that made me feel any better about the sound I make. Someone recorded me in front of an audience once, and they all liked it.

Have you tried singing into yourself : not projecting your voice. When you do so looking downwards with your eyes into yourself : not lifting your eyes to not look at anything else.

It's a good point, it could reduce the self-consciousness. The problem there is I would have to set my stuff to music to have something to sing. Paradox.. I think it's just cognitive dissonance, or having no notion of what the written or spoken words could possibly sound like as music. It's like that 'mind's eye' thing mentioned in another recent thread, in this case I seem not to have one. I have an imagination, but it's very literal-minded.

[PippaPumpkin]

I do, in software, though given the extremely low latency I get with MME WaveOut on specific hardware, I'm seriously considering selling as complete systems for that purpose, IF there is some hardware that works as well as mine, but is easier to find. Right now I only have enough full sets of hardware for four systems. That could be great for demonstration purposes, but not for sales.

You must be really smart. I have recorded the song 'I've Been Drifting (...Amoung the Stars)' now, and I have used software synthesizers. I'm looking forward to a release soon.

I don't know how to add ASIO to my C code compiled with GCC, and there's apparently no generic DLL to use to reach the hardware's own asio driver. I don't know about coding for plugins either. I just built it as a separate bit of software that runs on any Windows since W98, but I don't think anyone wants such separate programs anymore. Everyone wants plugins..

Okay, I will notify you as soon as I get the information you are looking for.

[Lostgallifreyan]

[You must be really smart. I have recorded the song 'I've Been Drifting (...Amoung the Stars)' now, and I have used software synthesizers. I'm looking forward to a release soon.

Thankyou. Anyway, I had some time.. it's only been recently that I decided the first synth was finished enough to put online.

Good luck with the release. That was quick.

I don't know how to add ASIO to my C code compiled with GCC...

Okay, I will notify you as soon as I get the information you are looking for.

By all means.. Actually I put up a thread asking, just in case. It's been a problem too confusing to hold in mind all at once. Turns out I did miss a trick, a guy called Eddy suggested compiling and linking to ASIO as a precompiled object. I'd done that before, just never thought of applying the idea to this problem!

[PippaPumpkin]

Thankyou. Anyway, I had some time.. it's only been recently that I decided the first synth was finished enough to put online.

What is you philosophy in desigining synths?

Good luck with the release. That was quick.

Yes, I have applied for a membership of the Self-Promotion forum. Hopefully I will be approved. I did not design the synth I have used, but the presets are my own.

By all means.. Actually I put up a thread asking, just in case. It's been a problem too confusing to hold in mind all at once. Turns out I did miss a trick, a guy called Eddy suggested compiling and linking to ASIO as a precompiled object. I'd done that before, just never thought of applying the idea to this problem!

Yes, you can also avoid compliation stutter this way.

[Lostgallifreyan]

What is you philosophy in desigining synths?

Pretty much what astronaut Gus Grissom said to the Grumman aerospace people: Do good work. Ok, flippant, that was. Better: make the digitals perform as cleanly as the best analog I ever saw, and make it musical. Make it so the complexity is in easy reach.

Yes, I have applied for a membership of the Self-Promotion forum. Hopefully I will be approved. I did not design the synth I have used, but the presets are my own.

Excellent. If you can stand to program DX7-type patches, you could try the synth reachable from my sig-link below. I can't promise it will work for you because of the lack of ASIO, depends what your hardware is, but if it does work it would be great to know.

And, again, quick work. Got to 101 posts so can promote. I'm holding off for now, I've said enough about my synth in posts various, and it's probably not yet ready for up-front promotion yet.

Yes, you can also avoid compliation stutter this way.

I never stutter when I code. Actually I never thought I could 'speak' in C, it's unsayable stuff, but it grew on me. It says what it does better than any words I know. I find that looking at the innards of a synth in code is like looking into one of those giant looms used to make blankets and carpets. When I optimise for fast array traverses I image thread-filled shuttles whizzing about..

[Folderol]

The first rule of synth design is NEVER change an existing sound, and don't change the code that produces it without very detailed audio tests. There are people out there who can hear extremely tiny changes - as I learned the hard way when I made a 'cosmetic' change to Yoshimi's random number generator. I couldn't hear any difference but a couple of our users could. It was quickly changed back!

[PippaPumpkin]

Pretty much what astronaut Gus Grissom said to the Grumman aerospace people: Do good work. Ok, flippant, that was. Better: make the digitals perform as cleanly as the best analog I ever saw, and make it musical. Make it so the complexity is in easy reach.

That sounds good. I like clean analog gear. Please, notify when there are examples I can listen to of your synth.

Excellent. If you can stand to program DX7-type patches, you could try the synth reachable from my sig-link below. I can't promise it will work for you because of the lack of ASIO, depends what your hardware is, but if it does work it would be great to know.

Okay, maybe I can get it to work for my second song. The DX7 is digital isn't it?

I have installed your synth. Starting it I plugged in my USB keyboard, but there was no sound.

And, again, quick work. Got to 101 posts so can promote. I'm holding off for now, I've said enough about my synth in posts various, and it's probably not yet ready for up-front promotion yet.

Yes, make sure that it performs as cleanly as the best analog stuff first and then release. Unfortunatly I was not given clearance for the promote forum, yet. I'm going to wait for one more day. If I have no luck, I'm going to post it here.

I never stutter when I code. Actually I never thought I could 'speak' in C, it's unsayable stuff, but it grew on me. It says what it does better than any words I know. I find that looking at the innards of a synth in code is like looking into one of those giant looms used to make blankets and carpets. When I optimise for fast array traverses I image thread-filled shuttles whizzing about..

In one class in school we had C++ but I already forgot all about it. Do you know about decent sampler? I can't even figure that out.

The first rule of synth design is NEVER change an existing sound, and don't change the code that produces it without very detailed audio tests. There are people out there who can hear extremely tiny changes - as I learned the hard way when I made a 'cosmetic' change to Yoshimi's random number generator. I couldn't hear any difference but a couple of our users could. It was quickly changed back!

Lots of intelligent people around here.

[Lostgallifreyan]

That sounds good. I like clean analog gear. Please, notify when there are examples I can listen to of your synth.

Okay, maybe I can get it to work for my second song. The DX7 is digital isn't it?

I have installed your synth. Starting it I plugged in my USB keyboard, but there was no sound.

It might not work, but the config panel should let you select ports for MIDI and audio, and select a buffer size. If it still fails, it's likely that your system (like most) doesn't like MME output, and so far my programs only use that. I'm considering DirectSound and ASIO, but that could take a while..

DX7 (and emulations) are digital, but their mechanics can be extended to do virtual analog well (better than Yamaha's AN1X). My main synth does this, and I branched the code so I can release a DX7 emulation while finishing the main one later. I'll probably learn things from the early one, that will help make the later one better.

Yes, make sure that it performs as cleanly as the best analog stuff first and then release. Unfortunatly I was not given clearance for the promote forum, yet. I'm going to wait for one more day. If I have no luck, I'm going to post it here.

The admins might be on an Easter break.. Could be worth waiting three days.

In one class in school we had C++ but I already forgot all about it. Do you know about decent sampler? I can't even figure that out.

Sampler of coding examples as a guide, or samplers as in playing sounds? I don't know either.. If you mean the sound playback from keyboard, the best thing I can think of is to look at some older high-end samplers, because unlike synths, those fall rapidly in price. The Yamaha SY85 is very cheap, but I think it can play sound, but not make new samples. If you can make them on a computer, then get the cheap older hardware to use them, that might be useful.

[PippaPumpkin]

It might not work, but the config panel should let you select ports for MIDI and audio, and select a buffer size. If it still fails, it's likely that your system (like most) doesn't like MME output, and so far my programs only use that. I'm considering DirectSound and ASIO, but that could take a while..

Yes, if your synth works on most systems on startup, has nice presets and VST support I think it will have much more mass appeal.

DX7 (and emulations) are digital, but their mechanics can be extended to do virtual analog well (better than Yamaha's AN1X). My main synth does this, and I branched the code so I can release a DX7 emulation while finishing the main one later. I'll probably learn things from the early one, that will help make the later one better.

I am hyped to hear them.

The admins might be on an Easter break.. Could be worth waiting three days.

Okay, I'll wait till tuesday.

Sampler of coding examples as a guide, or samplers as in playing sounds?

There is a virtual instrument named 'decent sampler' youve probably never heard about it. If you want to input your own sample library in this instrument you need to do it by coding. Unfortunatly I am not smart enough to get it working properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvjMvktbGDY

I don't know either.. If you mean the sound playback from keyboard, the best thing I can think of is to look at some older high-end samplers, because unlike synths, those fall rapidly in price. The Yamaha SY85 is very cheap, but I think it can play sound, but not make new samples. If you can make them on a computer, then get the cheap older hardware to use them, that might be useful.

I prefer using software solutions.

I hope you are correct and the moderation is on easter break and I won't be denied access to the self-promotion forum.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Yes, if your synth works on most systems on startup, has nice presets and VST support I think it will have much more mass appeal.

I'll focus on this for the moment.. There may be a chance you can get a cheap bit of excellent hardware that WILL support this synth.

Are you in the USA? If so, you might still find the Echo Audio Layla device on Ebay, for as little as 30~60 bucks.

I mean the first one, with the heavy aluminium front panel with two inputs, for channels 7/8, that has drivers for W98 and WXP. Echo's drivers are so good.. This device used to cost a grand (in UK sterling), it was very high end hardware at the time, so given the low current cost (if you can find one) it's worth getting an old PC with a PCI slot so you can use this.

There are tens of thousands of old patch files for the DX7, so no shortage of things to try. They're in SysEx format almost anywhere you'll find them so they can be loaded direct, or sent in via MIDI, which is nice if you want to run a synth on hardware and not have to keep movign between computers.

I won't aim for mass appeal, right now I'd be content if just one person got great results out of it. I've not yet found other hardware that lets it run at its best, but if you use a WXP machine, using Echo's v6.11 WDM driver, set for 'PureWave', you'll get latency lower than ASIO. It's well worth the low cost, to get that. Cheap modern interfaces offer a lot less, usually for more money. The only gotcha in all of this is rarity, but the US usually has these old interfaces on Ebay, Europeans seem less willing to part with one of they are still lucky enough to have one.

I like the idea of software solutions, but in general they still need excellent hardware to make the best of them.

[PippaPumpkin]

I'll focus on this for the moment.. There may be a chance you can get a cheap bit of excellent hardware that WILL support this synth.

Are you in the USA? If so, you might still find the Echo Audio Layla device on Ebay, for as little as 30~60 bucks.

I mean the first one, with the heavy aluminium front panel with two inputs, for channels 7/8, that has drivers for W98 and WXP. Echo's drivers are so good.. This device used to cost a grand (in UK sterling), it was very high end hardware at the time, so given the low current cost (if you can find one) it's worth getting an old PC with a PCI slot so you can use this.

There is a SOS article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/echo-layla-3g

44.1kHz and 48kHz sample rates supported.

I usually work with higher sampling rates than that. Is this what you are using? It is a bit old school, it is older than the Nintendo Wii.

There are tens of thousands of old patch files for the DX7, so no shortage of things to try. They're in SysEx format almost anywhere you'll find them so they can be loaded direct, or sent in via MIDI, which is nice if you want to run a synth on hardware and not have to keep movign between computers.

What I look for in a synth is, that I can just start it and it works immediatly. Then I like to go through the presets, and if they are good I am sold. This is why it is important to include a nice selection of presets.

I won't aim for mass appeal, right now I'd be content if just one person got great results out of it.

I think you are selling yourself short, I am sure alot of people would like your synths. It is well worth it to make it work on startup and have some killer presets included.

I've not yet found other hardware that lets it run at its best, but if you use a WXP machine, using Echo's v6.11 WDM driver, set for 'PureWave', you'll get latency lower than ASIO.

I have direct monitoring, I don't how much latency that has though.

It's well worth the low cost, to get that. Cheap modern interfaces offer a lot less, usually for more money. The only gotcha in all of this is rarity, but the US usually has these old interfaces on Ebay, Europeans seem less willing to part with one of they are still lucky enough to have one.

I like the idea of software solutions, but in general they still need excellent hardware to make the best of them.

That is true. I hope you get your synths working on most machines. I think it is going to be a great success if it starts with a bunch of great presets for every one to use. I like how the interface looks. It is a nice old school look.

[Lostgallifreyan]

That is true. I hope you get your synths working on most machines. I think it is going to be a great success if it starts with a bunch of great presets for every one to use. I like how the interface looks. It is a nice old school look.

Thankyou.

Re sample rate and depth, the early Echo Layla is less than is expected by most people now, but I remember at the time, that staff in music shops sometimes told me that the sound was still better than a lot of other firms' boxes, even during five YEARS of trying to compete. Layla allegedly made 20 bits sound better all that time, than their rivals could do with 24 bits, and when the barrier was beaten, it was probably Echo who did it. I think maybe their Layla 24/96 might do well as a possibility. I can't make that work on my machines, it's not fully compatible unlike the first generation. When it does work, the 2nd generation (24/96) is extremely good, the jitter is so low that the DC output capacitors can be shorted out and the device used to control high-speed laser galvanometer scanners with extreme precision. A few people have used them to do this, one of them (posting as 'Swamidog' on Photonlexicon) doing so in competitive shows. This is top gear, it really is. You can probably find Layla 24/96 for around $100 now!

Maybe the Layla 3G one is good too, but I never tried it. That SOS review mentions only 49 KHz upper limit, but that's for the ADAT interface, the separate I/O can do 96 KHz, but I think using the 2nd generation Layla with separate mic preamps is likely a better choice for general use.

I ended up staying with the original Layla built in the mid 1980's, I think that one is the best bang per buck, it's just harder to find one now. (I also liked its software console best of all).

[PippaPumpkin]

Maybe the Layla 3G one is good too, but I never tried it, I ended up staying with the original Layla built in the mid 1980's, I think that one is the best bang per buck, it's just harder to find one now.

That is older than the gameboy. Are you using windows XP? Why are you doing this. I mean you don't need to upgrade all the time but that hardware is like 40 years old?

[James Perrett]

Maybe the Layla 3G one is good too, but I never tried it, I ended up staying with the original Layla built in the mid 1980's, I think that one is the best bang per buck, it's just harder to find one now.

That is older than the gameboy. Are you using windows XP? Why are you doing this. I mean you don't need to upgrade all the time but that hardware is like 40 years old?

I think Lostgallifreyan might be getting his decades mixed up. Windows audio cards didn't appear until the likes of the Soundblaster, CardD and Turtle Beach Multisound were introduced in the early 1990s. Martin reviewed the Layla in 1999

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/event-layla

and it would have been a new model at that time.

[Lostgallifreyan]

I think Lostgallifreyan might be getting his decades mixed up. Windows audio cards didn't appear until the likes of the Soundblaster, CardD and Turtle Beach Multisound were introduced in the early 1990s. Martin reviewed the Layla in 1999

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/event-layla

and it would have been a new model at that time.

Sorry, you're right! I did. I remember messing with Soundblasters various when W98 was new, and it was IRQ hell, never mind DLL and driver install hell. Dante would have liked it.

I think it must have been 1999 or so when I got an ex-demo Layla from a Manchester shop for £550. It was instant gratification. It made my computer go from hell to a studio grade system like a rocket launch. I never looked back. It was actually so great I ended up not moving on! This kind of gear is so hard to beat..

That is older than the gameboy. Are you using windows XP? Why are you doing this. I mean you don't need to upgrade all the time but that hardware is like 40 years old?

I screwed up... Just the date though, the gear is that good, it's like having old Roman gold. Having hardware that can take MME output from any synth, and get latency better than ASIO, that IS rare, and anyone who has it should hang on to it. Judging by the increasing rarity, I think they do.

The firm RME might do something this good for USB, today, but at costs between £500~£2000 it won't be the next thing I try.