How to make it in the Business

Advice on everything from getting your music heard to setting up a label and earning royalties.

How to make it in the Business

Post by PippaPumpkin »

Hello,

since the string catastrophy I've been working on my first song 'PP - I've Been Drifting (...Among the Stars)'. I'm happy to tell you that I have successfully completed the production. :clap:

I hope to release the track on the self-promotion forum, if I get membership.

Since the thought of releasing a song never occured to me, I am unsure how to make a successful release. I understand with my little experience it is not realistic to expect to get far, but I just want to go for it anyway.

What am I to do to start my journey in the industry, avoiding being treated like the red headed stepchild and getting the green light to be one of the musicians that are successful in the buisness? :beamup:
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by The Red Bladder »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:16 pmWhat am I to do to start my journey in the industry, avoiding being treated like the red headed stepchild and getting the green light to be one of the musicians that are successful in the business? :beamup:

Study Business Economics!

Musicians have almost no idea how many beans make five. I just do not know why that is, but otherwise perfectly normal and functioning human beings lose all ability to calculate money and turn that money into assets as soon as they pick up an instrument.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me on that score - what happens to the brain that stops all ability to calculate just as soon as they sit at a musical instrument?
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by tea for two »

Also running our own small business if at all feasible possible.

In the early 2K's after having studied business economics as an option in a larger course I felt I didn't know how a business is run.
So I set up my own small Computing IT business which ran 4 years : some of the work was in london, some of it cities towns outside london.
This also taught me I knew zero aboot Audio Computing as it is different from other computing : which is where from SoS magazine and SoS foruume I learnt.
Last edited by tea for two on Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by BWC »

The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am Musicians have almost no idea how many beans make five...

Perhaps someone could enlighten me on that score - what happens to the brain that stops all ability to calculate just as soon as they sit at a musical instrument?

I don't think it's that. I think it's that music is so widely accessible. ...even to those who can't count past four.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by James Perrett »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:16 pm What am I to do to start my journey in the industry, avoiding being treated like the red headed stepchild and getting the green light to be one of the musicians that are successful in the buisness? :beamup:

Get involved in your local music scene by going to gigs and playing gigs. If you are living in a place that has a healthy music scene you will find like minded people and also hopefully people further up the ladder than you are.

In my early days we had several local artists who were on their way to making it, yet still approachable enough to help people on the bottom rung. Once you are up to a certain standard, the music business is still very much about who you know. However, there are no guarantees. I hear so many tales of people who thought they had everything lined up, only to encountered a stumbling block that ended their career before it started. Strikes at record pressing plants seemed to be a very common problem in the 80s.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by Lostgallifreyan »

The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am Musicians have almost no idea how many beans make five.

Some beans?

Talking of which, I asked a greengrocer once, if he had a business plan. (I was playing devil's advocate). I already had some answer in mind, and he gave the expected one: No. His trade is driven by events, the changing of seasons, the fickle desires of the public based on what they might have seen on TV during the previous week.. What he DID value, highly, was lots of cold storage space. It got him bulk economy, reduced loss, the time to make better decisions about what next to buy..

He prevailed over the rivals because they had little if any cold storage, ran around in hot little vans all day, and their produce wilted and shrivelled, and the talk of it got back to him through his new customers. He didn't have to check out the competition because he was good enough that people willingly came to him and told him about it.

As it is with storage, so it is with saving money. So long as income beats outgoing expenses, it can continue. No matter what complexity can be found, it boils down to that. If that works, people don't have to think so hard, except to figure out if people want them to do what they do.

I accept that greengrocers are indispensable if the quality is good, so they don't have to continually justify their existence. Musicians always DO, so the surest answer is marketing. There will always be people who like what you do. The trick is finding enough of them, or making it easy for them to find you. The other difficulty is setting a price on something as ephemeral as music. In the case of punk, the success was partly due to setting a low price. Excluding lots of people was a bad idea. Probably still is.

I'm not going to even try to suggest the logistics of the 'Successful Artists' because by strict definition that is unknown to me, and so rare that it cannot apply to most musicians anyway. Comparing those enterprises is like comparing a boat with a shipping line. I think the reason the industry and all its lawyers even exist, is because changing a boat into a shipping line can happen fast, and no-one can do that alone, any more than they can go to the moon alone.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by Lostgallifreyan »

James Perrett wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:25 pm Strikes at record pressing plants seemed to be a very common problem in the 80s.

Interesting. That was another reason punk was successful. As CD's became popular, LP's started to decline and a lot of bands decided that the Marxist notion of 'seizing the means of production' worked for them. They bought up old recorders, pressing plants, and the 'indie' scene developed out of this.

I don't know if the same thing is likely to happen now, but it's worth looking at what people want in terms of recording formats. Then go the OTHER way, get what is 'deprecated' and turn it to your advantage.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by BigRedX »

Lots of hard work and lots of luck, and although to paraphrase a well-known sporting cliché the harder you work the luckier you become, hard work alone is no guarantee of success in any artist endeavour.

So you have one song recorded and ready to release. What will you be doing to promote it? Do you have an eye-catching video to go with it? If not why not? Do you have a second song ready to release to build on the first? Do you have an album almost ready to go after that? You need all these things because you need to capitalise on any momentum your first song might create and keep building from there. Unless you are working in a niche genre with dedicated fans for that genre, the moment you stop producing new work and promoting it, you run the risk of being forgotten.

Do you currently play gigs? If not you will need to. Currently live performance is the musical "product" and recordings for most artists are simply promotional tools to get people to gigs. When you perform live are you going to be memorable beyond just the music? As much as we musicians think that the music should be enough, it very, very rarely is, and you will need to accept that.

Do you have work and/or family commitments outside of music? If so you will quickly find that the sheer amount of work required to promote yourself as a musical artist will tend to exclude everything else. The only way around this is to properly employ someone to handle all the non-musical aspects of promoting you as an artist. I've spent the best part of 50 years of my life trying to make a living as a musician/composer/performer, and best I've ever managed to do is to make it a hobby which pays for itself. That level of "success" required both myself and the singer/front man I was working with at the time to pretty much dedicate every waking non-working time to the band. That meant when we weren't writing new songs, rehearsing, recording or gigging (and we were out playing live at least once a week all over the UK for 6 years solid) we were working on promoting the band. It also helped that we were producing new material at the rate of at least one song a month ready to add to the live set and even more importantly the singer was an outrageous exhibitionist when it came to performances. That level of commitment got us to the point were the band was a medium-sized fish in a fairly small pond.

So work hard and good luck!
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by amanise »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:16 pm Hello,

since the string catastrophy I've been working on my first song 'PP - I've Been Drifting (...Among the Stars)'. I'm happy to tell you that I have successfully completed the production. :clap:

I hope to release the track on the self-promotion forum, if I get membership.

Since the thought of releasing a song never occured to me, I am unsure how to make a successful release. I understand with my little experience it is not realistic to expect to get far, but I just want to go for it anyway.

What am I to do to start my journey in the industry, avoiding being treated like the red headed stepchild and getting the green light to be one of the musicians that are successful in the buisness? :beamup:

I look forward to hearing your song! I see a lot of answers here which might be excellent advice for the music scenes here and the US - but that might not be the case where you are. We need to know a little more about whereabouts you would be starting out, I think?
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by PippaPumpkin »

The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am Study Business Economics!

Thank your for your advise. I hope you are in good health.

I feel like that would take the focus off my music. How is it going to help me getting starstatus in the buisness, anyway?

James Perrett wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:25 pm Get involved in your local music scene by going to gigs and playing gigs. If you are living in a place that has a healthy music scene you will find like minded people and also hopefully people further up the ladder than you are.

In my early days we had several local artists who were on their way to making it, yet still approachable enough to help people on the bottom rung. Once you are up to a certain standard, the music business is still very much about who you know. However, there are no guarantees. I hear so many tales of people who thought they had everything lined up, only to encountered a stumbling block that ended their career before it started. Strikes at record pressing plants seemed to be a very common problem in the 80s.

Maybe in the age of internet it is possible to do all of this online?

Lostgallifreyan wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:39 pm Musicians always DO, so the surest answer is marketing. There will always be people who like what you do. The trick is finding enough of them, or making it easy for them to find you. The other difficulty is setting a price on something as ephemeral as music. In the case of punk, the success was partly due to setting a low price. Excluding lots of people was a bad idea. Probably still is.

I'm not going to even try to suggest the logistics of the 'Successful Artists' because by strict definition that is unknown to me, and so rare that it cannot apply to most musicians anyway. Comparing those enterprises is like comparing a boat with a shipping line. I think the reason the industry and all its lawyers even exist, is because changing a boat into a shipping line can happen fast, and no-one can do that alone, any more than they can go to the moon alone.

I think I'd need a big player to see the value in my work to get into the industry. Doing this on my own is not a realistic prespective I think.

BigRedX wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:23 pm Lots of hard work and lots of luck, and although to paraphrase a well-known sporting cliché the harder you work the luckier you become, hard work alone is no guarantee of success in any artist endeavour.

So you have one song recorded and ready to release. What will you be doing to promote it? Do you have an eye-catching video to go with it? If not why not? Do you have a second song ready to release to build on the first? Do you have an album almost ready to go after that? You need all these things because you need to capitalise on any momentum your first song might create and keep building from there. Unless you are working in a niche genre with dedicated fans for that genre, the moment you stop producing new work and promoting it, you run the risk of being forgotten.

Do you currently play gigs? If not you will need to. Currently live performance is the musical "product" and recordings for most artists are simply promotional tools to get people to gigs. When you perform live are you going to be memorable beyond just the music? As much as we musicians think that the music should be enough, it very, very rarely is, and you will need to accept that.

Do you have work and/or family commitments outside of music? If so you will quickly find that the sheer amount of work required to promote yourself as a musical artist will tend to exclude everything else. The only way around this is to properly employ someone to handle all the non-musical aspects of promoting you as an artist. I've spent the best part of 50 years of my life trying to make a living as a musician/composer/performer, and best I've ever managed to do is to make it a hobby which pays for itself. That level of "success" required both myself and the singer/front man I was working with at the time to pretty much dedicate every waking non-working time to the band. That meant when we weren't writing new songs, rehearsing, recording or gigging (and we were out playing live at least once a week all over the UK for 6 years solid) we were working on promoting the band. It also helped that we were producing new material at the rate of at least one song a month ready to add to the live set and even more importantly the singer was an outrageous exhibitionist when it came to performances. That level of commitment got us to the point were the band was a medium-sized fish in a fairly small pond.

So work hard and good luck!

I see this working for some people, but aren't the big stars a product of a monolithic industry?
amanise wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:30 pm I look forward to hearing your song!

Thank you Ama! I am going to post it soon, and will put the link here:
https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=90187
amanise wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:30 pmI see a lot of answers here which might be excellent advice for the music scenes here and the US - but that might not be the case where you are. We need to know a little more about whereabouts you would be starting out, I think?

My hope was that there is a monolithic industry that works internationally, in part over the internet.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by amanise »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:41 am ...My hope was that there is a monolithic industry that works internationally, in part over the internet.

Well, there's the remnants of a global industry as far as I can tell... Whether it's monolithic is another thing... but it certainly seems to operate in part by way of the Internet. I think most of us get a start on a local level though. I don't know of any first time global success stories. They tend to be just that - stories and hype - or the children of established stars.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by The Red Bladder »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:41 am
The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am Study Business Economics!

I feel like that would take the focus off my music. How is it going to help me getting starstatus in the business, anyway?

There is no magic brass ring you can grab that will propel you to star status! Almost every major star that you have heard of became an overnight success after at least ten years of hard graft. Or as the lead singer for The Darkness (remember them?) put it, "It took us just twelve years to become an overnight success!"

You name 'em and they rolled up their sleeves and started gigging. Lady Gaga, Missy Elliott, Adele, Beyoncé, from The Beatles to The Rolling Stones, from Tom Petty to Prince, almost everybody works their tails off to become that overnight success.

And even when you are there, you are (after a decade of hard work) maybe famous - but it takes real financial ability to turn stardom and fame into a fortune and real money (i.e. assets). Without financial ability, everyone else gets rich - except you!

A close friend of mine was in a major UK alt-rock band in the 70s and 80s. He was in that band for over 15 years. He even wrote many of their songs - but was paid nothing, so he jacked it in and became a music teacher. Another was the drummer with an act that filled stadiums around the world. He died in poverty in his 40s. I could list another ten like that off the top of my head.

Pippa, I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go. The difference between success and failure is knowing how many beans make five!

I was talking to a music finance guy a couple of years ago - he is one of the guys you go to in order to put a tour together or finance a film or whatever it is that requires large amounts of cash up-front. You have the promises, you have the contracts - what you do not have is the seven or eight figure sum to get the ball rolling! He also gives discrete finances for stars that want to buy a nice house or a hole in the water you throw money into (i.e. a boat).

I was talking to him about a very, very famous rap star. I commented on her eight-figure annual income. "No chance!" he said. "She still had to get a mortgage for her new house."

So good luck with a musical career Pippa and I shall watch your progress with interest.
_________________________________

Nothing to do with anything here, but I have just heard that a group of Tory MPs want Priti Patel as leader, with Liz Truss as Chancellor. I haven't stopped laughing yet!
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by ajay_m »

It's an interesting Q. It's a business full of sharp-elbowed people relentlessly promoting themselves, encircled by people who have no talent themselves but know damn well how to exploit those who do by making money off them.

A good example of this is the link below on how Live Nation rips off just about everybody to make money from concert ticket sales via secret kickbacks to business partners.

https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/expl ... dium=email

Now having said all this some people DO manage to make money out of the music business without resorting to exploitation and fraud. But most of the time this comes down to a LOT of touring around to small town gigs and sleeping in the back of the van and working very, very hard to get noticed.

And if you're not just doing covers, then your original material had better be pretty good and you need to be pretty good at playing it - it's a high bar to clear. Have a listen to Zervas and Pepper covering Joni Mitchell, these are very difficult songs to tackle and they do an amazing job, but the quality of their musicianship is exceptional. Can you match that talent? - be honest with yourself, it's better to be realistic now then be disappointed later.
[they also write their own stuff, but haven't really hit the big time yet. Their Joni tribute show though, did pretty well for them I think, they toured a bunch of the provincial theatres and got pretty good houses because there were quite a lot of people who wanted very much to hear what they were offering. I could see them possibly moving into the tribute band market as Ms Mitchell ain't getting any younger - bless her, what a fantastic talent and she's still performing after being pretty unwell too]

Of course there are other paths. Library music - but again this is a pretty crowded market and unfortunately I can see AI decimating this one in the next few years.

Being a truly great tribute band is another - the top-level tribute bands do well, but they have the talent and the gear to put on a show that often is on a par with what the original bands they cover would have done. And they go to a LOT of trouble - the top Beatles tribute band has a right-handed bass player who re-learned to play bass left-handed because Paul McCartney is left-handed.

You could be a songwriter like Carole King who certainly did ok as a performer, but also wrote some songs that got covered by a LOT of other folks.
You could also teach others - there's an endless demand for classes in creativity where the participants are looking at you to inspire them - do you have the charisma for that?.

Or music therapy. You do have to train for years for this but you could change the lives of children who are often autistic and find expression through guided music therapy.

Or scoring for film - this is definitely an area in my opinion with the most possibility for creative musical people because so many young film producers will be desperate for an original soundtrack and they sure can't afford to license anything. You won't earn much money (or indeed probably any money) for a while but as a path to getting known, this certainly is worth considering.
[have a listen to some of the amazing work that got done by pretty much unknown people e.g the soundtrack to Liquid Sky, which I *think* is still on Netflix]
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by James Perrett »

ajay_m wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:41 am You could be a songwriter like Carole King who certainly did ok as a performer, but also wrote some songs that got covered by a LOT of other folks.

Carole King worked 9-5 as a songwriter in the Brill Building before she became known in her own right.

https://www.history-of-rock.com/brill_building.htm

She was right in the middle of the music business - not a songwriter sitting in a bedroom who happened to get lucky.

PippaPumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:41 am Maybe in the age of internet it is possible to do all of this online?

Of course it is possible but still fairly unlikely. So many opportunities in the music business seem to come from chance meetings or chance remarks so it makes sense to increase those chances as much as possible by going out and meeting people.

Of course, if you were working in a different field then online is more of a possibility. Computer games is one example where you could have a team from all over the world making one product. Video is also another example where the nuts and bolts can be put together remotely although concepts and ideas often work better when people are in the same room. Both computer games and video need music so there may be some openings there.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by adrian_k »

ajay_m wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:41 am
Or music therapy. You do have to train for years for this but you could change the lives of children who are often autistic and find expression through guided music therapy.

This is where I ended up, and I have to say it’s been great. We don’t just work with children - I’ve worked in adult mental health, dementia care, and drug and alcohol rehab, as well as with children and young people. But it’s not what I think of as the “music business”, it’s more of a healthcare profession really. 😊
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by ilikebarmouth »

The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am
Musicians have almost no idea how many beans make five.

There are alot of musicians in the World. What proportion do you think you have assessed in this regard?
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by tea for two »

A World famouse musician in the 90s as part of a band still with a massive following said "I get to be famous being me how f*ing brilliant is that."

So for the OP and anybody else I would suggest discovering nurturing a specific aspect ofourself which possibly stands out :
our own personal twist our own special brew on something already existing which makes us noticeable :
nearly every famouse musician band has done this.

Thereafter flying with it as far as it takes us.

There necessarily will be lots of bumps crashes injuries that's part and parcel.

Remembering all our best laid plans our blood sweat tears can frequently amount to aught.
Remembering there's several doors in this business not as a composer musician songwriter :
seeing which doors suits us we have some abilities skills could develop these, where we can offer something of valoo.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by PippaPumpkin »

amanise wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:28 am Well, there's the remnants of a global industry as far as I can tell... Whether it's monolithic is another thing... but it certainly seems to operate in part by way of the Internet. I think most of us get a start on a local level though. I don't know of any first time global success stories. They tend to be just that - stories and hype - or the children of established stars.

Okay, I am going to post the lore of my song, and hope to figure out how to get some of the big bois to look at my material. Starting on a local level seems to me to be a futile endevour these days. You really want that global push to make it plausible, is my impression.

The Red Bladder wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:48 am There is no magic brass ring you can grab that will propel you to star status! Almost every major star that you have heard of became an overnight success after at least ten years of hard graft. Or as the lead singer for The Darkness (remember them?) put it, "It took us just twelve years to become an overnight success!"

You name 'em and they rolled up their sleeves and started gigging. Lady Gaga, Missy Elliott, Adele, Beyoncé, from The Beatles to The Rolling Stones, from Tom Petty to Prince, almost everybody works their tails off to become that overnight success.

And even when you are there, you are (after a decade of hard work) maybe famous - but it takes real financial ability to turn stardom and fame into a fortune and real money (i.e. assets). Without financial ability, everyone else gets rich - except you!

A close friend of mine was in a major UK alt-rock band in the 70s and 80s. He was in that band for over 15 years. He even wrote many of their songs - but was paid nothing, so he jacked it in and became a music teacher. Another was the drummer with an act that filled stadiums around the world. He died in poverty in his 40s. I could list another ten like that off the top of my head.

How sad.

The Red Bladder wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:48 amPippa, I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go. The difference between success and failure is knowing how many beans make five!

I was talking to a music finance guy a couple of years ago - he is one of the guys you go to in order to put a tour together or finance a film or whatever it is that requires large amounts of cash up-front. You have the promises, you have the contracts - what you do not have is the seven or eight figure sum to get the ball rolling! He also gives discrete finances for stars that want to buy a nice house or a hole in the water you throw money into (i.e. a boat).

I was talking to him about a very, very famous rap star. I commented on her eight-figure annual income. "No chance!" he said. "She still had to get a mortgage for her new house."

So good luck with a musical career Pippa and I shall watch your progress with interest.

Thank you, for shareing your insight and your support. How about, I want to be a star and work a regular job to make money?

ajay_m wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:41 am it's better to be realistic now then be disappointed later.

My idea was that I create a media product that is so well put together, that a big player sees the value in just putting in a bit into it to get it rolling. The money I'd take from that perspective that it won't even be worth the bother cutting me short.

James Perrett wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:58 pm Of course it is possible but still fairly unlikely. So many opportunities in the music business seem to come from chance meetings or chance remarks so it makes sense to increase those chances as much as possible by going out and meeting people.

Of course, if you were working in a different field then online is more of a possibility. Computer games is one example where you could have a team from all over the world making one product. Video is also another example where the nuts and bolts can be put together remotely although concepts and ideas often work better when people are in the same room. Both computer games and video need music so there may be some openings there.

That is a good idea. I could try to make something work in th realm of video games.

tea for two wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:27 pm A World famouse musician in the 90s as part of a band still with a massive following said "I get to be famous being me how f*ing brilliant is that."

So for the OP and anybody else I would suggest discovering nurturing a specific aspect ofourself which possibly stands out :
our own personal twist our own special brew on something already existing which makes us noticeable :
nearly every famouse musician band has done this.

Thereafter flying with it as far as it takes us.

There necessarily will be lots of bumps crashes injuries that's part and parcel.

Remembering all our best laid plans our blood sweat tears can frequently amount to aught.
Remembering there's several doors in this business not as a composer musician songwriter :
seeing which doors suits us we have some abilities skills could develop these, where we can offer something of valoo.

Thank you for for these encouraging words. My motto is simple:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlUIMt4_ME&t=1154s
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by BigRedX »

As The Red Bladder says, overnight success is the product of many years of hard work. Not only that but if you look behind the scenes of any "new" successful artist you'll probably find someone who already has a track record of success within the industry.

Which leads to my next point, these days the "monolithic music industry" doesn't get involved until an artist has achieved some significant degree of success first. That means as well as producing the music you are going to have to have a serious, co-ordinated and effective promotional strategy. When there are a reported 49,000 new songs appearing on Spotify every single day, what is going to make people notice yours? Here's a clue: the music on its own unfortunately is not going to be enough.

What Bill Drummond said in his book "The Manual" about if you have any other distractions (work, education, family commitments) apart from producing and promoting your music it is going take away too much of your time. There's also a degree of needing to "hungry" enough to make it, because you don't have a fall-back position should it all go wrong. This part of the book is still relevant today even if a lot of the rest is now out of date.

However as has already been pointed out there are plenty of musical opportunities for earning a living, just don't expect any of them to make you rich and famous. At the very worst if you put in the time and effort you should be able to make music a hobby that pays for itself. Most hobbies don't even do that.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by PippaPumpkin »

BigRedX wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:09 pm As The Red Bladder says, overnight success is the product of many years of hard work. Not only that but if you look behind the scenes of any "new" successful artist you'll probably find someone who already has a track record of success within the industry.

Which leads to my next point, these days the "monolithic music industry" doesn't get involved until an artist has achieved some significant degree of success first. That means as well as producing the music you are going to have to have a serious, co-ordinated and effective promotional strategy. When there are a reported 49,000 new songs appearing on Spotify every single day, what is going to make people notice yours? Here's a clue: the music on its own unfortunately is not going to be enough.

That is why I have written some lore to my music. Do you think that helps? Unfortunatly I don't know how to link a post, but if you find post 911909 you can see the lore of my music.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by Drew Stephenson »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:48 pm My idea was that I create a media product that is so well put together, that a big player sees the value in just putting in a bit into it to get it rolling.

Unfortunately that's not how it works these days. The major players will only get involved once and artist or scene has established itself enough that they can guarantee a return on their investment.
When you're selling out 500+ venues in your hometown and 100+ venues on tour, then they might be interested.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by PippaPumpkin »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:20 pm Unfortunately that's not how it works these days. The major players will only get involved once and artist or scene has established itself enough that they can guarantee a return on their investment.
When you're selling out 500+ venues in your hometown and 100+ venues on tour, then they might be interested.

Hey Drew,

yes that sounds plausible to me. It makes sense. My idea now is to create a universe like the matrix movie and bring something to the table that trumps the benefit of being a successful touring act. If Ama releases a new track, I'm going to take it as inspiration and make new song myself expanding the univers. Right now I think I need to improve on my timing, since my first song is a bit disjointed.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by Arpangel »

The Red Bladder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:10 am Musicians have almost no idea how many beans make five. I just do not know why that is,

It's because musicians are musicians, not accountants, musicians, believe it or not, like to spend most of their time making music, accountants PR marketing etc do the financial stuff for them, or they used to, this model of having many different heads just doesn’t work.
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by amanise »

PippaPumpkin wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:30 pm
Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:20 pm Unfortunately that's not how it works these days. The major players will only get involved once and artist or scene has established itself enough that they can guarantee a return on their investment.
When you're selling out 500+ venues in your hometown and 100+ venues on tour, then they might be interested.

Hey Drew,

yes that sounds plausible to me. It makes sense. My idea now is to create a universe like the matrix movie and bring something to the table that trumps the benefit of being a successful touring act. If Ama releases a new track, I'm going to take it as inspiration and make new song myself expanding the univers. Right now I think I need to improve on my timing, since my first song is a bit disjointed.

We'll conquer the galaxy together PP! Those intergalactic philistines won't know whats hit them! One day it will be folk music like everything else :lol:
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Re: How to make it in the Business

Post by Arpangel »

PP, don’t take this the wrong way, you say you’re drifting among the stars, would they be digital stars? or analogue stars?
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