How to tell when a guitar is too expensive

[SecretSam]

Later this month, Chrisite's will be auctioning what is believed to be one of the oldest books in the world:

From the BBC:

"Christianity's oldest religious book, according to auction house Christie's, is going on sale in June.

The Crosby-Schøyen Codex, written in Coptic script on papyrus in Egypt, dates to between 250-350AD.

It is also thought to be one of the oldest books in existence and could sell for up to $3.8m (£3m)."

At that price, it will be cheaper than the following guitars sold at auction:

Kurt Cobain's Martin D-18E $6,010,000.
Kurt Cobain's Fender Mustang $4,550,000.
David Gilmour's Fender Stratocaster $3,975,000.
Eddie Van Halen's Kramer $3,932,000

So. A fundamental artefact from the dawn of Western civilisation, made by hand over 40 years is somehow worth less than a guitar that is one of identical thousands being churned out of a production line every year.

I can't think of a pithy punchline, but ... just .... gosh.

[BJG145]

Never mind Cobain's D-18E, I'd rather have a new one. Codex schmodex.

[SecretSam]

I'm not familiar with the Codex Schmodex.

It it an illuminated manuscript listing the most egregious fraudsters in the Roman Empire?

[S.Crow]

If divorce papers are served before the credit card bill which contains the guitar purchase has been paid, there's your answer.

[S.Crow]

These sorts of pop artefact purchases are probably often made by individuals who are shallow or narcissistic.
It's amazing what the clowns get up to:

"Titanic 'door' prop that kept Rose alive sells for $718,750".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68672177

[Philbo King]

A lot of those end up hanging on a wall in a lawyers office. Like having a trophy wife but with less maintenance cost.

[Eddy Deegan]

I'm not sure there's any meaningful definition of "too expensive" other than in the context of "too expensive for <whoever>".

In other words if someone wants something enough to buy it and they have the money for it then by definition it's not too expensive. Thus anything that is too expensive will never sell.

I would imagine that Taylor Swift could sell her fingernail clippings for more than the price of some second hand cars. I know which I'd rather have, a Nord Stage 4 88

Cost isn't an attribute of something, more a reflection of its desirability.

[Folderol]

I think the only things I have that don't have a specific practical use they were bought for, are the pictures on the walls. Almost all of those were bought from the artists on my travels - so in a sense, their 'purpose' is/was to support the artists.

[S.Crow]

So. A fundamental artefact from the dawn of Western civilisation, made by hand over 40 years is somehow worth less than a guitar that is one of identical thousands being churned out of a production line every year.

One of the tenets of capitalist economics is supply and demand.
When you add the fetishisation of physical objects along with that and an increasing number of very wealthy individuals, this is the end result.

One of my favourite examples is paying an eight figure sum for a Warhol painting of a soup can.

[SafeandSound Mastering]

Just a few personal thought spring to mind. In the examples which are of course monsterously expensive you are not purchasing just a guitar you are purchasing the right to be almost involved in music history. It may even be purchased by someone who cannot even play and open E chord. It'll be on the wall as a party piece in some Californian beach mansion.

Moreover and generally when a guitar cannot stay in tune for longer than 2 hours playing and it costs more than £350.00

I play a Steinberger Spirit headless, not very well I hasten to add, but I think it is amazing for myself. It stays in tune extremely well, it's small, takes little space, personally I think they look amazing and sounds reasonable. Certainly good enough for my playing. I would be happy if mine sounded like this, must be the model used and playing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIBljNV ... fromBoston

I have just a second hand original Pod XT Pro rack. Fine for me.

Generally a too expensive guitar is probably anything more than £1,800.00
as this is what this costs : )

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/ ... m7vp-white

Good players make £100.00 guitars sound amazing.

And for me personally anything over what I have paid, £350.00 would be too much for my own ability.

[RichardT]

Not many people are actually interested in owning an ancient Christian codex, regrettably.

Lots more people are interested in rock music.

[Sam Spoons]

I have a few hand built guitars and IMO the hours* required to build a guitar by hand can justify a price tag in the low to mid thousands. Whether the hand building process adds sufficient value to make the premium over a factory built instrument reasonable is something only the buyer can determine.

* In fact if you do the sums it's remarkable that independent luthiers survive at all.

[Telemaxis]

"Generally a too expensive guitar is anything more than £1500".
Sorry, but I cannot agree. My "go to" guitar (left-handed) was custom made for me. I got to choose the woods and the finish (a light weight being a prerequisite) and all electrics and hardware. I was able to visit the luthier at various times in the making process, to check on progress and discuss any possible amendments.
The guitar was not cheap (around £2700) but was significantly cheaper than many "custom shop" offerings from the big players. The key point is though, that the guitar is absolutely fabulous - plays like a dream and looks truly gorgeous. I've owned it for three years or so - and the honeymoon period goes on!
Could a sub-£1500 guitar have ticked all the boxes? I've had a few, and some good ones, but nothing has come anywhere near this one. Worth every penny!

[amanise]

An easier question to answer would be when is a guitar too cheap. Since guitar has been my main passion since age 11 I should be able to articulate a view on this really. My main guitar cost me about 1300 quid in 2007. I bought it in California while I was there anyway visiting friends, the pound was strong, and the import duty was negligible. I love it - its great and I always wanted the model. I have played better though. I always sneaked a quick twiddle on the instruments of those pro bands I used to book as a promoter - and some of those were amazing. Most notably Nine Below Zero's Denis Greaves' 1960s cherry red ES335 which he let me have a rip around a few times. His guitar tech really knew how to set things up. Similarly, Steve Walwyn's wonderful bottle green Telecaster just sang all on its own. I think if I were touring like those guys, I'd be looking to spend a bit more than I did on mine because the difference is so huge when you come to play them - and your income depends on it. But - notice I've talked about a vintage Gibson, and a work a day Fender. Two very different propositions in terms of purchase price. The key thing being the setup. Having your own tech costs a few quid.

[bird droppings]

One thing you need to answer first is: too expensive for what? Your current budget? Too expensive for what you get? Too expensive for your current skill?

Personally I like to use the concept of “hull speed” in considering how much to spend on a new item. When they settle on the hull shape for a new ship, they then need to decide how powerful an engine to give to it. So they try an engine and plot how fast it goes. Then a more powerful engine, and a still more powerful engine, and so on.

At some point the speed curve hits a limit and you can double the power of the engine and it pretty much won’t push that hull any faster through the water. The place where the speed curve flattens out is called the “hull speed’.

Spend $300 on a guitar and you have something you can play. Spend $500 and it will be a better guitar. $1000? Even better. $2000? Still a little better. But somewhere above $2000 or so and they largely stop getting “better”. They’re just different.

You may disagree with me on exactly where “hull speed” is for guitars, but I still think it’s a useful concept.

[amanise]

...

You may disagree with me on exactly where “hull speed” is for guitars, but I still think it’s a useful concept.

The point being that your ability is the Hull form, right? I like that analogy. At some point it does indeed top out - and then you get the battles of form over function. E.g. Duisenberg (sp?) - which is a guitar I love the look of I hasten to add.

[Albatross]

I do up old junk shop finds as a pretty much constant hobby. My wife says we run a guitar (not donkey) sanctuary. So to me a guitar is too expensive if it costs more than a decent case for it when its finished.

[Philbo King]

One factor is when the value affects the utility.

Case in point: I bought a 1993 ES355 B.B.King signature guitar from Ebay. The current price range is $2700-2900 USD. I don't take it to gigs because it is too easy to walk off with it.

[Dynamic Mike]

...

You may disagree with me on exactly where “hull speed” is for guitars, but I still think it’s a useful concept.

The point being that your ability is the Hull form, right? I like that analogy. At some point it does indeed top out - and then you get the battles of form over function. E.g. Duisenberg (sp?) - which is a guitar I love the look of I hasten to add.

My Duesenberg cost £2700 but it was a limited edition run of 48 guitars. I get pleasure from just looking at it, never mind playing it. Best of all, it was a totally guilt free expense as my wife ordered it without even telling me!

[amanise]

...

You may disagree with me on exactly where “hull speed” is for guitars, but I still think it’s a useful concept.

The point being that your ability is the Hull form, right? I like that analogy. At some point it does indeed top out - and then you get the battles of form over function. E.g. Duisenberg (sp?) - which is a guitar I love the look of I hasten to add.

My Duesenberg cost £2700 but it was a limited edition run of 48 guitars. I get pleasure from just looking at it, never mind playing it. Best of all, it was a totally guilt free expense as my wife ordered it without even telling me!

There used to be Duisenberg cars which looked amazing too, art deco on steroids. Wonderful. I don't know if they are the same company.

[Arpangel]

Anything, up for auction, is only worth as much as whoever is in the room to buy it, if that person isn’t there, forget it.
Also, it would be worthless to me for instance, as I have no interest in what the book is about, or the book as an object in itself.

[Music Wolf]

Later this month, Chrisite's will be auctioning what is believed to be one of the oldest books in the world:

From the BBC:

"Christianity's oldest religious book, according to auction house Christie's, is going on sale in June.

The Crosby-Schøyen Codex, written in Coptic script on papyrus in Egypt, dates to between 250-350AD.

It is also thought to be one of the oldest books in existence and could sell for up to $3.8m (£3m)."

But it's out of copyright, so you can download the Kindle version for free

[tea for two]

Similar way most of us on ere foruume are : of significant valoo to someone, of lesser valoo to others, of prolly zero valoo to prolly billions of folk;
artifacts can fall into similar.

My current fave Guitar is a 1970's Rose Morris sold Resonator I purrchased £70.
If it was worth a few grand I'd consider it too expensive for me : I'd flog it lol.

So I'd say if a Guitar's valoo is too much for us to hold onto then it's too expensive for us.

I was watching a Batking Fretless Bass Uke on an auction site after seeing this vid.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UBjvYweASkg
My limit was £70. Sold close to £100 : it wasn't valoo for me at £100.

So I'd say if a Guitar exceeds its valoo to us then it's too expensive for us.

[Sam Spoons]

Later this month, Chrisite's will be auctioning what is believed to be one of the oldest books in the world:

From the BBC:

"Christianity's oldest religious book, according to auction house Christie's, is going on sale in June.

The Crosby-Schøyen Codex, written in Coptic script on papyrus in Egypt, dates to between 250-350AD.

It is also thought to be one of the oldest books in existence and could sell for up to $3.8m (£3m)."

But it's out of copyright, so you can download the Kindle version for free

No, hang on a minute... This book supposedly contains the "Word of God" and copyright lasts 70 years after the death of the writer? So if God exists* he is immortal and thus cannot be dead yet (let alone dead for more than 70 years), we just need to see where the royalty cheques are being sent.

* If He/She does not exist then the book must be a fake and somebody is about to be taken to the cleaners to the tune of three million quid...

[amanise]

Later this month, Chrisite's will be auctioning what is believed to be one of the oldest books in the world:

From the BBC:

"Christianity's oldest religious book, according to auction house Christie's, is going on sale in June.

The Crosby-Schøyen Codex, written in Coptic script on papyrus in Egypt, dates to between 250-350AD.

It is also thought to be one of the oldest books in existence and could sell for up to $3.8m (£3m)."

But it's out of copyright, so you can download the Kindle version for free

No, hang on a minute... This book supposedly contains the "Word of God" and copyright lasts 70 years after the death of the writer? So if God exists* he is immortal and thus cannot be dead yet (let alone dead for more than 70 years), we just need to see where the royalty cheques are being sent.

* If He/She does not exist then the book must be a fake and somebody is about to be taken to the cleaners to the tune of three million quid...

The stakes suddenly went up!!