Extremely Post Production: Cassette to CD

[krooner]

Hi all,

So, about 40 years ago, I, along with a pianist, home recorded a few jazz standards onto cassette.
I wonder if anyone has any advice regarding copying to cd, which would achieve best results.

Many thanks.
Kj

[Exalted Wombat]

Have you got a good-quality CD player and an audio interface that has Line level inputs? Connect them up and give it a try!

All recording programs sound the same, all CD burning programs sound the same (well, as long as you get the recording level right and avoid programs that add 'enhancements'). The only real issue is how much you decide to 'clean up' the audio.

One basic word of advice. Don't discard the original tapes, keep a copy of the 'raw' recording. The result of a 'clean up' can be immediately attractive, but you may come round to realising that e.g. removing the hiss also throws away too much of the piano sound. Don't burn your boats!

Also, I'm afraid, consider that audio CD is now pretty much a dead format. And home-burnt audio CD's are among the least reliable storage methods.

[ken long]

Hi all,

So, about 40 years ago, I, along with a pianist, home recorded a few jazz standards onto cassette.
I wonder if anyone has any advice regarding copying to cd, which would achieve best results.

Many thanks.
Kj

Probably the most important thing you can do is make sure to align the angle of the playback head (azimuth) of whatever cassette deck you will be using to match that of the deck the cassette was recorded on. This will help with phase and frequency response.

[Forum Admin]

Hi all,

So, about 40 years ago, I, along with a pianist, home recorded a few jazz standards onto cassette.
I wonder if anyone has any advice regarding copying to cd, which would achieve best results.

Many thanks.
Kj

Hi

I took the liberty of editing this topic's subject and changed to Extremely Post Production: Cassette to CD as your title is a bit cryptic and unlikely to garner the most replies. Hope you don't mind?

Forum Admin

[ef37a]

All the above and especially keep the first digital copy, warts and all, In fact copy it over to a USB stick and put it somewhere safe. I suggest copying at 16 bits and 44.1kHz. I KNOW I shall get some flack for it but the Behringer UCA202 would be more than good enough for cassette IMHO.

Once you have the safety copy you can think about clean up. I used Sound Forge some years ago to clean up some teenager's 45 punk collection. You can download a 30 day free trial from MAGIX. I am sure others here will have many more suggestions about such software.

Dave.

[James Perrett]

Probably the most important thing you can do is make sure to align the angle of the playback head (azimuth) of whatever cassette deck you will be using to match that of the deck the cassette was recorded on. This will help with phase and frequency response.

I would absolutely echo this. It is vital to adjust the playback machine to match the recording machine. If you don't know how to do this, and the recording is valuable, then I would find someone who does know how to do this and can do a proper job.

[Exalted Wombat]

Probably the most important thing you can do is make sure to align the angle of the playback head (azimuth) of whatever cassette deck you will be using to match that of the deck the cassette was recorded on. This will help with phase and frequency response.

Well, yes. But only if you know how. Many (most?) attempts at self-aligning heads leave it worse than before.

[Lostgallifreyan]

Probably the most important thing you can do is make sure to align the angle of the playback head (azimuth) of whatever cassette deck you will be using to match that of the deck the cassette was recorded on. This will help with phase and frequency response.

Well, yes. But only if you know how. Many (most?) attempts at self-aligning heads leave it worse than before.

When I did it I listened for the fall-off of HF being equal on either side of a range of adjustment, then set it to the mid-point. That works because it's angling a fixed item on a single pivot, it's going to be symmetrical so you can trust the method. Trying to adjust for peak HF response directly is a lot harder, so looking for the centre of a clearly perceptible range is easier, for the same reason that looking for a null is usually easier when there is one. Even if you have gear to detect best HF response, you'll probably need to start with the balanced-range method before you fine tune it. This method can be used on noise in the silent start of the recording (if there's enough above the tape's own noise floor) so you don't have to risk degrading the wanted signal before you're ready to record it.

Also, if possible, try to use the same model of cassette deck that was originally used. That really helps to eliminate nasty variables. Even then I never assume the azimuth is set correctly unless I know it's been done recently.

Keeping raw digital transcriptions gives you plenty of chances to retry cleaning efforts without going back to a deck. Retrying the transcription is likely to degrade it so getting it right once is best.

Also, I'm afraid, consider that audio CD is now pretty much a dead format. And home-burnt audio CD's are among the least reliable storage methods.

Indeed. CD-R, DVD-R, usually end up with horrible problems (and optical drives aren't good for long term endurance either). I use off-line hard disks for backups. I've got disks from the early 1990's that run as good as new whenever I want to salvage something off them. Too low a capacity for modern use, but ideal for long term storage in a dark quiet cool dry place. Modern SSD's might beat hard disks for this, but it might be decades more before there's a solid verdict.

[ajay_m]

A really good cassette deck is important. While azimuth errors are possible, it's also important to be sure that Dolby and tape settings eg chrome for chrome tape are set. Then record to wav files. Archival quality optical media are likely to last for decades assuming you're making digital backups and you can then rip to cd if you actually want CDs. There will be a noise floor and wow and flutter but unless the recorder was really poor you might not particularly notice , it's the performances that count.

[RichardT]

If you don’t have a decent cassette deck, you could ask a pro to do it for you.

[James Perrett]

A really good cassette deck is important. While azimuth errors are possible, it's also important to be sure that Dolby and tape settings eg chrome for chrome tape are set.

Nowadays I much prefer to transfer without Dolby and then use either the Anaxwaves Dolby decoder or the decoder in Satin. Dolby level alignment is critical and over the years tapes often lose a little high end due to self erasure. You may need to slightly boost the high end before Dolby decoding or change the level going into the Dolby decoder for best results which is much easier to do in the digital domain.

[krooner]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Much appreciated.

There's lots to go at here, lots to think about.
My initial thought is just to buy a decent cassette player, upload to Reaper DAW, and follow the advice from there, unless anyone can see a problem with that.

Cheers.
Keith

[Arpangel]

I'm in the middle of transferring 12 spoken word cassettes to CD.
I’ve got a good cassette deck playing into Reaper, I just use my ears.
If it sounds better with or without noise reduction that's fine, I EQ each tape so that they all sound the same, and make sure the left right balance is OK, that’s it.

[ef37a]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Much appreciated.

There's lots to go at here, lots to think about.
My initial thought is just to buy a decent cassette player, upload to Reaper DAW, and follow the advice from there, unless anyone can see a problem with that.

Cheers.
Keith

Nothing wrong there except "buy a decent cassette deck" That might be harder than you think*, it might be cheaper and better in the long run to see if there is any transcription service near you? Once you have the songs 'on a stick' you can put in the work cleaning them up if necessary.

*I have 3 very decent machines here, none of them work very well now... Cassette is OLD!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

My initial thought is just to buy a decent cassette player,

You won't find a decent cassette player new so you will have to take your chances with something second-hand. There is a good chance that whatever you buy will require new belts (cassette belts tend to only last 10-15 years) and other rubber parts. If you are determined to do this yourself then the best route is to buy something used from a trusted dealer and ask them to tell you when the belts were last changed.

[Hugh Robjohns]

My initial thought is just to buy a decent cassette player, upload to Reaper DAW, and follow the advice from there, unless anyone can see a problem with that.

If you're planning on digitising a lot of cassettes that might make sense, but for a one-off it would make more sense to use the purchase money to pay a pro to do it for you... IMHO.

[MarkOne]

Tascam and Teac still sell 'pro' cassette decks (though admittedly they are aimed at live installs and are probably just 'OK' in the quality stakes).

You can find some reasonable Nakamichi kit on Ebay, some of it claiming to have recent full service, but for a reasonable 3 head dual capstan model expect to pay in excess of £600 - and well into the £1000s for ZX-9 or ZX-7 or something.

Rather than pay that (and the uncertainty of the deck's provenance) I would spend probably a fraction of that getting a transcription service to digitise it for me.

[James Perrett]

Tascam and Teac still sell 'pro' cassette decks (though admittedly they are aimed at live installs and are probably just 'OK' in the quality stakes).

As I understand it, the current Teac machines use the same Tanashin mechanisms that are found in cheap cassette players.

[krooner]

Thanks, everyone.
On the basis of advice given, I'll probably have a go myself and see what comes out.
If I'm not happy with the results, I'll pay to have it professionally digitised, [depending on the cost]. On that note, if anyone can recommend a company, I'd appreciate it.
Also, thanks to admin for altering the subject title.

Cheers.
Keith

[ajay_m]

Like the higher end reel to reel decks, a semi pro cassette deck will use a solenoid activated transport and direct drive to the reel motors, so that the main item to degrade is the capstan roller.
Nakamichi were a highly regarded brand but I have a Yamaha deck I acquired years ago which is pretty well built with high resolution metering. These can be picked up for under £150 and should do a pretty good job. Yamaha know how to make stuff that lasts.

[Kwackman]

On that note, if anyone can recommend a company, I'd appreciate it.

James Perrett who has posted in this thread...
https://www.jrpmusic.co.uk

[R_A]

If the material is dear to you. Perhaps consider getting a quote from James Perrett (of this forum) https://www.jrpmusic.co.uk/ to undertake the work.

EDIT: just spotted Kwackman thought the same thing as me

[ef37a]

If the material IS dear to you then I would certainly not advise you to "have a go". An unknown transport and decades old cassettes? They could just end up a tangled, irretrievable mess. Even the best professional cannot guarantee the tapes will play properly but there is vastly more chance they will in a well maintained, top grade machine.

Dave.

[Arpangel]

Thanks, everyone.
On the basis of advice given, I'll probably have a go myself and see what comes out.
If I'm not happy with the results, I'll pay to have it professionally digitised, [depending on the cost]. On that note, if anyone can recommend a company, I'd appreciate it.
Also, thanks to admin for altering the subject title.

Cheers.
Keith

I think there’s no need to over-think all this, you’re dealing with something dodgy to start with, I look at it like just get it as good as you can, I've got a 90’s Teac 3 head machine, it sounds and plays fine, I get consistent results after a bit of EQ.
Theres no need to buy expensive decks, Nakamichi are always quoted, but unless it's a Dragon or similar forget it, their cheaper decks are some of the worst I've owned, when they were new.

[ajay_m]

Before trying to play any cassette take a pencil and gently rotate one spool to move the tape forward, verifying that the tape moves freely. Also check that the tape past the leader isn't showing signs of degradation so you don't gum up the heads.