Please critique the first movement of my symphony in D major

[RruffPaw]

In response to some very legitimate criticism of an earlier version of this work which lacked a distinct central motif and introduced too many disjointed themes in a 33 minute overture, I decided to break the piece up and convert it into a symphony.

Here is the MuseScore link to the first movement with a very distinct unifying theme.

https://musescore.com/user/28524096/scores/15079231

I fear however that I may have over-corrected and over-used the theme.

Please let me know what you think of the piece overall.

Thanks

[OneWorld]

How do you get it to play, what are we supposed to do read through the whole manuscript and do some music analysis?

[RruffPaw]

Hello!

There’s a play button at the top left that will render a (pretty decent) MIDI playback of the entire score.

[RichardT]

Hi,

I had a listen and there is some interesting stuff there.

The quality of the rendering is very low, though, so I couldn’t really judge it properly, and particularly I couldn’t judge the emotional impact it has.

These days it’s possible to do much, much better rendering. You’d need to spend a fair bit of money, though, to achieve it.

[OneWorld]

Hello!

There’s a play button at the top left that will render a (pretty decent) MIDI playback of the entire score.

Thanks, I couldn't see the button because my eyesight requires the High Contrast display. I've found it now

I must say your piece makes for some interesting listening. I am not sure the theme is over represented, the balance seems just about right I'd say. It is an impressive amount of work you've done and the results are worthy of that effort.

[RruffPaw]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for listening! I apologise for the low quality of the rendering, but unfortunately my hands may be tied here, as I’m not aware of any other option to generate the audio playback file from the MuseScore program that I used to write the score.

[RichardT]

I understand. To get further, you’d need to use one of the ‘big 3’ notation packages and some add-on playback software and sample libraries.

If you’re happy with the Musescore rendering there’s no need to do anything, obviously.

My experience has been that the better the rendering the easier it is to tell whether something works emotionally, but I don’t have great ‘mental hearing’ so I need that.

The other benefit of good rendering is that it maximises your chances of someone liking the music and giving you the chance to do something with it. But, sadly, for you and me both it’s very hard to get music in front of those people!

[RruffPaw]

I must say your piece makes for some interesting listening. I am not sure the theme is over represented, the balance seems just about right I'd say. It is an impressive amount of work you've done and the results are worthy of that effort.

Thank you very much indeed for your kind words. I enjoyed writing this and I hope I'm able to make the rest of the work come together as a cohesive work.

[RruffPaw]

I understand. To get further, you’d need to use one of the ‘big 3’ notation packages and some add-on playback software and sample libraries.

Exactly. However I'm reluctant to get something like Sibelius until I achieve a level of competence beyond what I have at present.

If you’re happy with the Musescore rendering there’s no need to do anything, obviously.

I wouldn't say that I'm happy with it, but I accept it fully aware of its limitations. C'est la vie.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

This is quite an evocative piece but for me there is something holding it back from being fully emotive. I like the texture of the first 40 bars, and as I said there are emotions there just about coming out. My main criticism is that it seems very keyboard based- chord changes are all in blocks, and almost all on the bar. Some more overlap i.e. going across the bar and having phrases of odd lengths, would bring it out more I think. Some good old fashioned species counterpoint would give a good starting point. From about bar 44 things get a bit more evocative but somehow it feels like it's trying too hard? I'm not sure that combining oboe trumpet and horns is that great of a sound in this key, either. It ends up being a soft and broad sound rather than anything distinctive. Maybe a little more contrast in the dynamics would be good? A bit of fff!

[RichardT]

I understand. To get further, you’d need to use one of the ‘big 3’ notation packages and some add-on playback software and sample libraries.

Exactly. However I'm reluctant to get something like Sibelius until I achieve a level of competence beyond what I have at present.

If you’re happy with the Musescore rendering there’s no need to do anything, obviously.

I wouldn't say that I'm happy with it, but I accept it fully aware of its limitations. C'est la vie.

For what’s it’s worth, I think you’re definitely competent!

[RruffPaw]

Hello Tomás,

thanks a ton for your insightful comments which I'll definitely keep in mind as I rewrite passages.

It is interesting however, that the piece came off as keyboard based, as I do not play the piano - (I can hammer out chord progressions,and melodies, but can't sight read a piece for piano)

The block chords were intended to convey as much of a percussive effect as a chord change, and as you point point, some syncopation would help. I was going more for the effect of a symphony from the Romantic era - think Bruckner.

The Oboe+Trumpet may have been an oversight that I didn't catch in either the score or the playback . Clarinet and Trumpet is what I normally use as the former tends to smooth out the rougher edges if the latter. I'll take a look.

Many thanks again!

[Tomás Mulcahy]

The block chords were intended to convey as much of a percussive effect as a chord change, and as you point point, some syncopation would help. I was going more for the effect of a symphony from the Romantic era - think Bruckner.

Oh which Bruckner? He kinda passed me by in college.

[RruffPaw]

My favourites and biggest influences are the #4 and #8

[tea for two]

My favourites and biggest influences are the #4 and #8

Can hear where John Williams borrowed ideas melodies themes for filum scores.

With your composition I would gently suggest working on melodies even if the melodies are Bruckner inspired.

[RruffPaw]

Thanks for your feedback

I don’t see where I’ve borrowed any theme as such. There are definitely stylistic influences however which I cannot deny! But if there are any melodies that appear almost exactly as in some other works, I’d like to know!

As far as working on melodies, I’m not a fan of long melodic lines, so what I’ve written is about as good as it gets with me

Thanks again.

[Eddy Deegan]

It's admirable that you've put enough work in to both create an original piece and score it!

I listened to it at some length but I couldn't make it through the whole work. It's nice music and the first few minutes work well but after that it seemed to be continually promising developments that didn't happen.

My ears were begging for a new theme or for it to commence a dramatic transition to something else but it didn't happen. I did jump forward and spot-audition several later pages but it seems to continue in the vein it started, without really going anywhere else.

As background music for something, say a role-playing game on a computer, it would work really well but as a piece of music to listen to, for me at least, it's too long. It's nice but nice gets repetitive after a while.

This could be in part down to the rendition that Musescore provides and it would certainly sound better if recorded with an orchestra but I doubt it would enage me after the first few minutes even then.

That said, I think you've done a great job of putting the work and the score out there in the first place so well done!

[tea for two]

Very welcome. You know it's very possible in time honing your craft, you would have your Orchestal compositions performed for an audience by an Orchestra.

Thanks for your feedback

I don’t see where I’ve borrowed any theme as such. There are definitely stylistic influences however which I cannot deny! But if there are any melodies that appear almost exactly as in some other works, I’d like to know!

As far as working on melodies, I’m not a fan of long melodic lines, so what I’ve written is about as good as it gets with me

Thanks again.

John Williams borrowed from Bruckner. That's what I wrote. Everybody borrows including Bruckner including Bach including Chopin. So it's normal.

Can hear where John Williams borrowed ideas melodies themes for filum scores.

Melodic lines can be 2 bars 4 bars. Needn't be 12 bars although there are 12 bar blues.

One thing about memorable Orchestral compositions is they have Rhythm and Melody.
For instance Peer Gynt Suite No. 1 In the Hall of the Mountain King. I try to do this Rhythm and Melody for my stuff.

[Arpangel]

Very welcome. You know it's very possible in time honing your craft, you would have your Orchestal compositions performed for an audience by an Orchestra.

To mere mortals, the orchestra does not exist, the closest you’ll get to one is via a company called Spitfire.
Or, just maybe, if your tutor at the RAM or RCM has a few connections, and thinks you may be a genius of some sort.

[tea for two]

As far as working on melodies, I’m not a fan of long melodic lines, so what I’ve written is about as good as it gets with me

Perhaps one thing might help in making Orchestral melodies.
When doing Orchestral type stuff I just make a melody as if it's a Synth melody using a Synth sound. Then I replace the Synth sound with Orchestral sampled instruments.

I just now stumbled upon Terminator theme done on Synths by Brad Fiedel played by an Orchestra.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgv9gumqJLo

[RruffPaw]

I play the Melodie’s on my violin before sampling them. Does the first movement of my symphony give the impression of a weak melodic line?

[tea for two]

Swan Lake
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNQFB0TD ... dhbiBsYWtl
main melody is hummable whistleable simple.

I feel : hummable whistleable simple : is the guide for me when I make 2bar 4bar 8bar melodies for Orchestral non Orchestral.

[RruffPaw]

Thank you everybody for the feedback which I deeply appreciate.

There will definitely be some revisions based on your suggestions!

[Arpangel]

It's good to see that people are still interested in writing this type of music, it's a double edged sword though, there’s never been a better time to do it, because of all the amazing samples we have, but unfortunately, the composer has to also be an engineer and computer expert, as well as concentrating on composition.

[Exalted Wombat]

Just for fun I transferred the score to Sibelius and played it using NotePerformer. Here's the audio.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2ml7qo00 ... 2b5rv&dl=1

In bar 9 what effect do you expect 'fp' to have on a pizz. note for the strings? I could add many similar comments. But there's some interesting music there. I'm reminded of the César Franck Symphony in D minor.