Clarett+ 8Pre VS Dedicated DA (Benchmark DAC1)

[Spells]

I saw Hugh's article... see link:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fo ... arett-8pre *

*and was shocked at the praise landing on the Focusrite Clarett+. Don't get me wrong, I like Focusrite and use their stuff but, for example, I have traditionally used a Benchmark DAC1 for monitoring duties. I have a Prism Lyra for mastering conversion but for the monitoring side of things, the Benchmark was always my go to.

Setting up a new studio space and looking to refine things... and reading that article linked above... I bought a Clarett+ 8 Pre for a silly low price, brand new. It's sat in its box right now. Q: how much am I gaining quality wise, using the Benchmark? Would the Clarett+ give as good results?

I'm in the planning stage so interested to hear more on the Cirrus converters, for example, in the Clarett+ and whether I might enjoy using it as the monitoring DA, meaning I can be rid of another piece of gear (the Benchmark) potentially.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Q: how much am I gaining quality wise, using the Benchmark? Would the Clarett+ give as good results?

You're not technically, and the Clarett is significantly better... but it's really all in the ear of the beholder, and different DACs can have different sonic flavours that might appeal to someone more than the pure technical performance.

However, the Benchmark DAC1 is an old product now and converter design in general has improved quite measurably since then — as evidenced by Benchmark bringing out the DAC2 and DAC3 models, each being noticeably better than the predecessor!

That said, I stick by my assertion that anything scoring more than 116dB (A-wtd) in my AES17 dynamic range test is comfortably of mastering grade quality — and the Benchmark DAC1 scored 117.6dB... which is good, especially for a product dating from 2005. I have two DAC1s, use them often, and still rate them highly.

However, nearly 20 years of further converter development and product design experience has allowed Focusrite to achieve a phenomenal score of 124dB (A-wtd), which is pretty much state-of-the-art performance.

Whether you can hear and appreciate the quality uplift on your monitors in your room only you can say.... but the test bench numbers say the Clarett trounces the DAC1 quite solidly.

For the record, it also trounces the Prism Lyra, by the way, which scored 116dB (A-wtd).... itself having slightly less dynamic range than the Benchmark — sorry!

My league table of converters/interfaces I've personally reviewed is here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=79727

[progger]

Well, damn. I've been on the verge of buying a Clarett OctoPre+ to expand my Babyface Pro FS for months, and this review from Mr. Robjohns might just tip me over the edge. That's some impressive praise, I've always had a favorable view of the Clarett line but I guess I didn't realize just how good they've gotten recently.

I've read rumors that the TRS inputs on the combo-jacks don't actually bypass the preamps. Does anyone know if this is true? And/or, if it is true, would it actually matter in the slightest either way? (My inner pragmatist says it wouldn't in the slightest while my inner purist, which usually loses, is shaking its fist.)

[Spells]

Q: how much am I gaining quality wise, using the Benchmark? Would the Clarett+ give as good results?

You're not technically, and the Clarett is significantly better... but it's really all in the ear of the beholder, and different DACs can have different sonic flavours that might appeal to someone more than the pure technical performance.

However, the Benchmark DAC1 is an old product now and converter design in general has improved quite measurably since then — as evidenced by Benchmark bringing out the DAC2 and DAC3 models, each being noticeably better than the predecessor!

That said, I stick by my assertion that anything scoring more than 116dB (A-wtd) in my AES17 dynamic range test is comfortably of mastering grade quality — and the Benchmark DAC1 scored 117.6dB... which is good, especially for a product dating from 2005. I have two DAC1s, use them often, and still rate them highly.

However, nearly 20 years of further converter development and product design experience has allowed Focusrite to achieve a phenomenal score of 124dB (A-wtd), which is pretty much state-of-the-art performance.

Whether you can hear and appreciate the quality uplift on your monitors in your room only you can say.... but the test bench numbers say the Clarett trounces the DAC1 quite solidly.

For the record, it also trounces the Prism Lyra, by the way, which scored 116dB (A-wtd).... itself having slightly less dynamic range than the Benchmark — sorry!

My league table of converters/interfaces I've personally reviewed is here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=79727

! I'd never seen that list and I must say, it gives me some real food for thought.

I'm shocked how well the Clarett+ performs and I'm now confident enough to monitor direct from the Focusrite in my new space... and see how that goes.

As for the Prism Lyra... say it ain't so! Surely the figures can't tell the whole story... because when I tested interfaces that I planned on using as my loop for hardware, the Prism was clear, pristine and musical to my ear, especially when pushed. Looking at the table, I wouldn't bother with the Prism either! ...and I could use the Clarett for mastering duties also, but something in my gut says to keep the Prism for mastering.

I feel like my world has been turned upside down

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've read rumors that the TRS inputs on the combo-jacks don't actually bypass the preamps.

They don't in most preamps/interfaces/consoles — even a lot of high-end ones. The cost/benefit ratio rarely justifies separate dedicated line input stages.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Can't say for sure, but if the level of the line input is affected by the mic preamp gain control over a similar gain range, it's a fair bet.

And/or, if it is true, would it actually matter in the slightest either way?

No, not in any practical application. The audio measurement lab gear will potentially detect slightly higher noise and THD compared to a dedicated line preamp, but only by a dB and a few hundredths of a percent....

If the line input stage isn't done properly it could easily perform worse than padding down the mic preamp, and doing it right will add £10 or more to the build cost and maybe £100 to the retail price... for something no one will ever hear, or care about!

[Hugh Robjohns]

As for the Prism Lyra... say it ain't so! Surely the figures can't tell the whole story...

I did warn you... but, no, of course they don't.

However, as I explained in the introduction to my league table, getting a high AES17 score requires engineering excellence in every part and aspect of the product design and construction, and over the years I've found it a pretty reliable indicator of perceived audio quality. Not perfect, and sometimes technical imperfections add desirable musical character (cf, guitar fuzz pedals!)... so it really is all in the ear of the beholder, as I said earlier.

...the Prism was clear, pristine and musical to my ear, especially when pushed.

It's a mastering grade converter (just) at a home studio price. But to Prism it is a budget interface... the reason it sounds so good is that Prism know how to make stable clocks, and very good analogue circuitry — and that matters a lot if you're going to 'push' the levels.

And that's what usually separates high-end from budget-friendly. The former still sound nice when stressed, while the latter often don't.

But, if you keep things within bounds, most budget gear now performs as well as — and sometimes better than — high-end gear.... for a fraction of the price.

I feel like my world has been turned upside down

Sorry....

Would it cheer you up, at all, if I told you Prism's latest professional studio/mastering interface/converter, the Dream ADA128, scored 124.5dB (A-wtd) for its AES17 D-A performance — up there with the very best.

[Spells]

As for the Prism Lyra... say it ain't so! Surely the figures can't tell the whole story...

I did warn you... but, no, of course they don't.

However, as I explained in the introduction to my league table, getting a high AES17 score requires engineering excellence in every part and aspect of the product design and construction, and over the years I've found it a pretty reliable indicator of perceived audio quality. Not perfect, and sometimes technical imperfections add desirable musical character (cf, guitar fuzz pedals!)... so it really is all in the ear of the beholder, as I said earlier.

...the Prism was clear, pristine and musical to my ear, especially when pushed.

It's a mastering grade converter (just) at a home studio price. But to Prism it is a budget interface... the reason it sounds so good is that Prism know how to make stable clocks, and very good analogue circuitry — and that matters a lot if you're going to 'push' the levels.

And that's what usually separates high-end from budget-friendly. The former still sound nice when stressed, while the latter often don't.

But, if you keep things within bounds, most budget gear now performs as well as — and sometimes better than — high-end gear.... for a fraction of the price.

I feel like my world has been turned upside down

Sorry....

Would it cheer you up, at all, if I told you Prism's latest professional studio/mastering interface/converter, the Dream ADA128, scored 124.5dB (A-wtd) for its AES17 D-A performance — up there with the very best.

Thank you for the awesome response and I've truly turned a corner in some respects, letting go of preconceived ideas of gear / capabilities, related to price.

Re' the new Prism... would it make me feel better knowing it's great... NO! As I might feel obliged to buy one

It's funny: I've spent years acquiring gear and now I'm really trying to downsize and sell bits off. I think that some of the hardware I was sure I needed, perhaps I don't.

My only consideration going forward is an RME interface, purely for its famed stability and longevity, over and above any figures.

We really are spoilt nowadays.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Re' the new Prism... would it make me feel better knowing it's great... NO! As I might feel obliged to buy one

A fully loaded one is in posh new car territory! But I didn't want you to think Prism couldn't keep up with the rest — they definitely can!

It's funny: I've spent years acquiring gear and now I'm really trying to downsize and sell bits off. I think that some of the hardware I was sure I needed, perhaps I don't.

I'm in the same boat....

We really are spoilt nowadays.

Yes, we really are.

[tea for two]

My league table of converters/interfaces I've personally reviewed is here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=79727

! I'd never seen that list and I must say, it gives me some real food for thought.

I'm shocked how well the Clarett+ performs and I'm now confident enough to monitor direct from the Focusrite in my new space... and see how that goes.

I use Hugh's measurements oooh er for my audio interface purrchases.

Although not on Hugh's list, Audient iD44 mk2 specs state AES-17 measurements A-D 120dB A-weighted, D-A 126dB A-weighted.
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar ... ifications

I only have a mere iD4 mk2 for which there are no AES-17 measurements on Audient's site. Still I chose iD4 mk2 over Clarett 2pre usb mk1 when I had both.

We've never had it so good in terms of relatively affordable decent enuff quality audio gear. Now if only I was half as decent lol.

[Spells]

My league table of converters/interfaces I've personally reviewed is here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=79727

! I'd never seen that list and I must say, it gives me some real food for thought.

I'm shocked how well the Clarett+ performs and I'm now confident enough to monitor direct from the Focusrite in my new space... and see how that goes.

I use Hugh's measurements oooh er for my audio interface purrchases.

Although not on Hugh's list, Audient iD44 mk2 specs state AES-17 measurements A-D 120dB A-weighted, D-A 126dB A-weighted.
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar ... ifications

I only have a mere iD4 mk2 for which there are no AES-17 measurements on Audient's site. Still I chose iD4 mk2 over Clarett 2pre usb mk1 when I had both.

We've never had it so good in terms of relatively affordable decent enuff quality audio gear. Now if only I was half as decent lol.

Re' Audient, I hear good things!

Related to all of the above, I've just unboxed the Clarett+ and it'll be given a central role in my new space. New racks incoming!

[Grappa]

My league table of converters/interfaces I've personally reviewed is here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... hp?t=79727

! I'd never seen that list and I must say, it gives me some real food for thought.

I'm shocked how well the Clarett+ performs and I'm now confident enough to monitor direct from the Focusrite in my new space... and see how that goes.

I use Hugh's measurements oooh er for my audio interface purrchases.

Although not on Hugh's list, Audient iD44 mk2 specs state AES-17 measurements A-D 120dB A-weighted, D-A 126dB A-weighted.
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar ... ifications

I only have a mere iD4 mk2 for which there are no AES-17 measurements on Audient's site. Still I chose iD4 mk2 over Clarett 2pre usb mk1 when I had both.

We've never had it so good in terms of relatively affordable decent enuff quality audio gear. Now if only I was half as decent lol.

Re' Audient, I hear good things!

Related to all of the above, I've just unboxed the Clarett+ and it'll be given a central role in my new space. New racks incoming!

Interesting stuff.

Of course the main issue is that your worrying about your DAC performance whilst running it into such poor performing speakers

Hope the new space works out well!

[Spells]

I've yet to use the speakers / monitors properly, so I'm going off what I tested before purchasing... fingers crossed!!!

Thanks for the well wishes on the new space. It's been a long saga but I hope it's nearly done!

[progger]

Thank you for all of that extremely helpful info, Mr. Robjohns! Based on what you say, I would wager that yes, the Clarett's combo inputs don't completely bypass the preamps, and that no, it does not matter. The Clarett is top of the list for potential ADAT input expanders for me at the moment, I think.