AI Singing Technology

[ilikebarmouth]

This track was created by AI. The whole track, vocal, lyrics...the lot. All as I did was give it a few prompts - one of them being 'Peter Gabriel'. I think it sounds err like Peter Gabriel. What do you think?

https://on.soundcloud.com/svPD2zWg5ujZ6Heq6

I think it sounds like Peter Gabriel!

Yeah! IMO (and everyone else's)...allegedly....they have trained it by feeding it the entire history of music. You should hear it do Frank Sinatra...Britney Spears...film scores...Bach...anything!

But surely they should not have been allowed to do that? This has put the internet and professional composers, session players, producers etc. in somewhat of a tizzy, naturally. As we are all kinda finished really.

But how have they got away with doing this? Well, that's a rhetorical question as no one seems to have the answer. Very depressing though.

Here is a Britney Spears-esque pop song I got it to produce.

https://on.soundcloud.com/tH2tv5aYT5kZ5Wqw9

So we don't need humans any more really.

[Eddy Deegan]

they have trained it by feeding it ...

So we don't need humans any more really.

You do. Large though the data pool to train it with may be it's still finite and as time goes on AI will increasingly be trained with stuff previously generated with AI which will result in stuff sounding more and more 'samey'.

So far I've got the feeling AI can't do much without human input, both in terms of training and prompting.

[BWC]

I don't find using these tools to copy other singers to be very interesting (impressive as they, sometimes, might be). On the other hand, taking one characteristic from one singer, another from another, etc., then being able to tweak those characteristics as I see fit. That would be more appealing to me.

The "Britney" was pretty convincing (though I only listened to a little), but the other one had that effect of "close, but not quite human, so... creepy" on me.

[Sam Spoons]

I'm probably being influenced by a predisposition to not like AI generated music but the first track sounded a bit like a single section or theme from a PG/Genesis track rather than a whole song and, while the second was probably a bit better in that respect, the both felt as if something was missing, they sounded 'flat' and uninteresting. But as above, I didn't really want to like them so maybe if I hadn't known they were AI beforehand...

[alexis]

... But as above, I didn't really want to like them so maybe if I hadn't known they were AI beforehand...

Ditto!

[OneWorld]

they have trained it by feeding it ...

So we don't need humans any more really.

You do. Large though the data pool to train it with may be it's still finite and as time goes on AI will increasingly be trained with stuff previously generated with AI which will result in stuff sounding more and more 'samey'.

So far I've got the feeling AI can't do much without human input, both in terms of training and prompting.

By definition there will be human input, because AI is used by humans and for humans. Where AI can be superior is the dataset available to it. This is why the cloud has sort of accelerated the progress of AI. We all use datasets, that's what our memory is for.

In days of yore there was extensive work in AI, going right back to the 50's with the General Problem Solver, early work done in computational linguistics etc, but way back when, the datasets were tiny, imagine writing the code for a language translation app, but it only had a lexicon of 100 words, basically rendering it useless, and even if say 10,000 words were stored in its lexicon, the hardware at the time was so prohibitively expensive and slow, it might take 5 minutes to translate a phrase. However the hypothesis showed a data 'engine' was possible to create that couldf translate unseen text.

But today of course, with the cloud, there is an infinite amount of data stored and collected, this is why FaceBook et al scours every packet of data - data is the new oil, and is why China has an perceived advantage because there's a population of 1,4 billion many of whom are very IT savvy so there's such a mountain of data it can be seen from space and contrary to popular myth - all countries mop up data incessently.

All of that data originates from humans. Where humans have the edge is that humans also conjure up completely novel and creative situations, and until computers start to 'think' illogically, organic intelligence remains the more impressive thinking engine, although sometimes bizzare, eccentric, puzzling but utterly amazing. However the computer is so fast, especially with quantum computers that it can sift through data at the speed of light, well almost, whereas a human might take months, years, however a human might instinctively drop upon a solution to a problem in an instant

[OneWorld]

I'm probably being influenced by a predisposition to not like AI generated music but the first track sounded a bit like a single section or theme from a PG/Genisis track rather than a whole song and, while the second was probably a bit better in that respect, the both felt as if something was missing, they sounded 'flat' and uninteresting. But as above, I didn't really want to like them so maybe if I hadn't known the were AI beforehand...

I think what we should factor in is the fact that organic music can be trite, mundane, and formulaic, and so pick the worst example of music written by a person and the best example of a piece of music written by AI and the AI example might indeed be considered superior. Last night I was saunterng through YouTube and of course there is much impressive stuff, but after a while I could hardly distinguish between one song and the next, because its written for a specific purpose. The same could be said of music going back in time, a composer might be asked to write a fugue, a tune for dancing to the Gay Gordon or a waltz but every now and again a composer would come along, such as Bach, Mozart et al who despite writing to a remit, produced somethign exceptional. Will AI do that? who knows, I hope not, otherwise working composers/writers will be joining the dole queue along with other service industry workers such as solicitors, estate agents, content creators, call handlers etc

[Sam Spoons]

Having thought more about those two tracks since I posted I've reached the conclusion that my opinion would be much the same if I hadn't known they were AI before listening. The Britney one would certainly not impress me regardless, and while I actually quite like the PG one it is bland and doesn't go anywhere, I think I'd be liking it because it's a genre I like rather than liking the specific song.

[ilikebarmouth]

Having thought more about those two tracks since I posted I've reached the conclusion that my opinion would be much the same if I hadn't known they were AI before listening. The Britney one would certainly not impress me regardless, and while I actually quite like the PG one it is bland and doesn't go anywhere, I think I'd be liking it because it's a genre I like rather than liking the specific song.

Yeah, the PG one doesn't go anywhere but it can do. That was just the first iteration and it took me no time at all. You can generate an infinite number of alternatives and glue them together to make it more interesting.

These two tracks took me very little time and effort. With some more time you could easily create even better tracks. The potential is there within this AI to create something rather good if you experiment a bit.

[Sam Spoons]

But it would still be several bland prog themes strung together, I doubt the whole would be any more than a sum of it's parts?

[ajay_m]

Well, it's certainly impressive technology. I asked it to do something in the style of Little Feat and while it then replaced the artist with a set of (surprisingly accurate) genre tags because it won't replicate specific artists without permission, the resulting track was certainly in their style.
Oddly, it tried to generate two tracks and one then failed with a 'moderation error' for some reason.
It's fairly terrifying how rapidly this technology has advanced and frankly I don't feel terribly positive about it. For a start the whole library music business is pretty much dead in the water if you can create some royalty-free genre stuff with a few prompts. You could probably also do film soundtracks as well.
All of the material they used was copyrighted I would have thought, so how long these sites will stay up for I don't know - the big music companies are not going to like this - so this could be like the Napster era. Of course there's nothing to stop someone like Sony offering a paid service based on their huge collection of material - apart from some very upset artists, I'd think, but we're in new ground here legally I suspect, when it comes to lawsuits.
I'm glad for me music is just a hobby. For people who actually make a living in the industry this technology is not good news. But this is also true for graphic designers and many other trades, where AI will allow generic but adequate material to be produced by unskilled people.

[RichardT]

It’s a bit like those stories of NASA bringing an asteroid full of diamonds back to the earth and ‘everyone becoming a billionaire.’

No, diamonds would become worthless.

Anything AI can do will become financially worthless. Personally, I also feel that AI art is artistically worthless, and probably I’ll feel the same about AI music.

People are not going to be honest about this. That’s clear from what’s posted on Facebook every day that attempts to pretend it’s not AI generated when it clearly is.

When AIs can produce art and music of the highest quality we’ll be in a totally new and unfamiliar world. What will people value?

[amanise]

That's going to have to go back to performing Mozart pieces in rich peoples Parlours so that they can say they hired a live musician for the evening. Dooo come round darling - apparently he only eats things which are purple!

[Sam Spoons]

That'll be prunes and aubergines then, don't share a cab home with him after the show is my advice

[Drew Stephenson]

But surely they should not have been allowed to do that?

Why not? Listening to something isn't copyright infringement, nor is creating something in the style of something else. It's literally how we all learn.

This has put the internet and professional composers, session players, producers etc. in somewhat of a tizzy, naturally. As we are all kinda finished really.

I'm not sure it warrants that conclusion, but if it does, well, we had a good run. No one is entitled to earn a living doing what they want. Businesses and whole industries disappear when technology moves on. It sucks for those involved but it has always happened and will continue to do so in the future.

[RichardT]

I think a good analogy is furniture manufacturing. In the past, everything had to be made using hand tools.

George Orwell wrote about this in The Road to Wigan Pier

In a world where everything could be done by machinery, everything would be done by machinery. Deliberately to revert to primitive methods, to use archaic tools, to put silly little difficulties in your own way, would be a piece of dilettantism, of pretty-pretty arty and craftiness. It would be like solemnly sitting down to eat your dinner with stone implements. Revert to handwork in a machine age, and you are back in Ye Olde Tea Shoppe or the Tudor villa with the sham beams tacked to the wall.

See here: http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/Orwel ... rt_12.html

Like so much that he wrote, I think this is totally wrong. Likewise, I think that saying there will be no room for human musicians is wrong.

To follow the furniture analogy, people love hand-made furniture if they can afford it. Plus many people are still involved in furniture design and manufacturing, sales and marketing.

[Drew Stephenson]

To follow the furniture analogy, people love hand-made furniture if they can afford it. Plus many people are still involved in furniture design and manufacturing, sales and marketing.

I agree entirely. There will still be a market, but I suspect it will be a much smaller one.

[ManFromGlass]

To take an extreme view - for all I know every one of you is Ai posting to learn my responses. All social media posts are Ai sprinkled with a few human responses. (Unless Ai has learned to be really stupid and say unexpected dumb things).
I like hand crafted furniture but I am also looking forward to bending Ai singers to my will.

[N i g e l]

... I am also looking forward to bending Ai singers to my will.

Its not quite the uncanny valley but somthing similar. Theres a spooky quality to being able to adjust the singers parameters/emotions at will. Its definitely not like tweaking ADSR or filter parameters on a synth.

[Arpangel]

Speaking to a neighbour, his daughter told him that some of her friends, applying for uni summer jobs, have been interviewed by AI, no people.
What is it we want? Where are we going?
All the jobs done by annoying minions who have to be placated, payed, and housed, will eventually be done by machines, computers, anything that can be done, will be done, no need for those tiresome worker bees anymore.

[Drew Stephenson]

What is it we want? Where are we going?
All the jobs done by annoying minions who have to be placated, payed, and housed, will eventually be done by machines, computers, anything that can be done, will be done, no need for those tiresome worker bees anymore.

This is exactly what I want! No need for shoddy dead-end jobs that suck the life out of you for decades whilst the concept of retirement gradually recedes ever further into the distance!
Bring on the post-work world!

[Arpangel]

What is it we want? Where are we going?
All the jobs done by annoying minions who have to be placated, payed, and housed, will eventually be done by machines, computers, anything that can be done, will be done, no need for those tiresome worker bees anymore.

This is exactly what I want! No need for shoddy dead-end jobs that suck the life out of you for decades whilst the concept of retirement gradually recedes ever further into the distance!
Bring on the post-work world!

We all need a purpose, and we all need money, as things are "now"
But "now" needs to change.

[alexis]

Options in the next decades when AI displaces all those low level workers?

1) Universal free income for all displaced workers. OK, but where does this wealth to pay for this come from?

2) New, as yet unimagined, and also "mind-numbing" jobs are born - to support AI ("Meet the new boss ...")

3) AI rules all, and it engineers a return to an agrarian society that grows just enough to feed the few bipedal carbon units necessary to maintain its infrastructure!

[Drew Stephenson]

1) Universal free income for all displaced workers. OK, but where does this wealth to pay for this come from?

I think the current numbers are something along the lines of the top 8 people in the US have more wealth than the bottom 150m - some kind of wealth tax (or just actual application of existing taxes) might be a good way to fund some of that redistribution.
And as TRB has repeatedly pointed out, western governments have been quite happy to print money to keep the banks going, why not do so for the people? It all ends up with the banks anyway...

It does frequently feel to me that the tail wags the dog. The economy doesn't exist without people and yet we seem to be quite happy to sacrifice people to feed the economy.

[alexis]

Here's a low-key level-headed guy I like to listen to in general for Cubase tips, with a very interesting DAW-independent vid on AI singing.

At the time indicated (if I formatted the link correctly) he shows that if you can get your hands on 10-15 min of dry vocals of someone you want to sound like, you can then upload your own cr*ppy DAW-recorded vocals (in my case, not impugning anyone else's singing skills ), and voila, out come your lyrics in your key, in your phrasing, as sung by your favorite vocalist, ready to be used in your DAW.

Spooky!

I've paid pro female vocalists to sing on some of my own vanity project tracks, and they weren't cheap (hmm, I wonder if prices have come down now that there's competition from AI? Good for people like me who have a vision but can't sing? But very bad for people with that amazing skill of sounding so nice when they sing )

https://youtu.be/VruS8HD-ssk?si=WTVfjwA ... g&t=10m18s