Logic Pro 11 Announced

[muzines]

Available next week!

https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/ ... -features/

Free for existing Logic Pro 10 users.

[fatbenelton]

Free is commendable but not unexpected seeing as all the incremental and major changes have been free as well. In the years I’ve been running Logic 10 I’ve probably paid £100’s going from Cubase 7 to 13. (I stupidly updated from 12 to 13 when the update was on sale for a ‘mere’ £56!). I should have just got 100% behind Logic and saved myself £100’s!!
Anybody want to buy a Cubase 13 Pro license??

[muzines]

It was unexpected, because for the last 15 years or so, the standard way they operated was you bought the major version (eg, Logic 8, 9, or 10) and got updates for the life of that version, then when the next major version was released, you paid again for that version.

So they expectation was the Logic 11 would follow the same system, and we'd have to pay again. So the fact that Logic 11 is *not* a paid update is quite unexpected.

It's also good that Apple have, for now, stayed away from the subscription option that we feared might happen...

[BigRedX]

It was unexpected, because for the last 15 years or so, the standard way they operated was you bought the major version (eg, Logic 8, 9, or 10) and got updates for the life of that version, then when the next major version was released, you paid again for that version.

So they expectation was the Logic 11 would follow the same system, and we'd have to pay again. So the fact that Logic 11 is *not* a paid update is quite unexpected.

It's also good that Apple have, for now, stayed away from the subscription option that we feared might happen...

But in a way the updates are tied to the hardware so at some point you find like me that you're stuck with a particular version of Logic until you buy a new Mac.

[Bob Bickerton]

Looks like some good stuff there - the Flex-Pitch could be a replacement for melodyne?

Anyway, look forward to your appraisal in due course Muzines

Bob

[IAA]

Excellent I hope SOS get to review. Looks as though it’s a barnstormer

[progger]

It's also good that Apple have, for now, stayed away from the subscription option that we feared might happen...

This is a BIG relief indeed. Very interesting and unexpected for it to be free. And sneaky... Might convince me to finally update my OS...

[ConcertinaChap]

Nice it's free. Change that, very nice it's free and me with my spanking new Mac Studio should be well placed to make the most of it. But I'm going to hold off for now because I'm in the middle of a big project that's going to last another couple of months and I could do without the hassle of of a big upgrade changing things. Nevertheless, nice one Apple!

CC

PS "Powered by artificial intelligence", well of course it has to be [sigh]
PPS I see the iPad version is rental-based ...

[BigRedX]

For me the biggest problem with the Logic now is the lack of comprehensive printed documentation. This used to be essential bath time/bedtime reading, but now there's nothing. The on-line help doesn't appear to anywhere near as comprehensive as the old printed manuals.

Case in point - I recently needed to change the panning direction of an Alchemy pre-set that I had slightly modified. Having read the very basic on-line documentation, I could see what I needed to alter, but I couldn't see how to do it at all. In the end it was simpler to add another plugin that swapped the L&R channels over to the output then waste more time trying to figure out what was controlling the panning movement within Alchemy itself and then work out how to reverse it.

For these sorts of reasons, apart from all the the bundled plug-ins there is very little that I do with Logic X that I couldn't do with Logic 4, and if I am using modern features it is only because the old ways of working have been removed. I'm sure all the new features could be great for me, but if I can't find out what they are and how to use them effectively they will simply pass me by. For me the only real reason to update is so that I can maintain compatibility with my songwriting partner who is sure to do so almost immediately.

[OK1]

For me the biggest problem with the Logic now is the lack of comprehensive printed documentation. This used to be essential bath time/bedtime reading, but now there's nothing. The on-line help doesn't appear to anywhere near as comprehensive as the old printed manuals.

Case in point - I recently needed to change the panning direction of an Alchemy pre-set that I had slightly modified. Having read the very basic on-line documentation, I could see what I needed to alter, but I couldn't see how to do it at all. In the end it was simpler to add another plugin that swapped the L&R channels over to the output then waste more time trying to figure out what was controlling the panning movement within Alchemy itself and then work out how to reverse it.

For these sorts of reasons, apart from all the the bundled plug-ins there is very little that I do with Logic X that I couldn't do with Logic 4, and if I am using modern features it is only because the old ways of working have been removed. I'm sure all the new features could be great for me, but if I can't find out what they are and how to use them effectively they will simply pass me by. For me the only real reason to update is so that I can maintain compatibility with my songwriting partner who is sure to do so almost immediately.

I made a similar complaint recently, about the lack of comprehensive user documentation for Reaper, my main DAW. Seems to be a common trend..

[muzines]

Speaking as someone who has the boxes for Logic 1/2/4/5-9 on my shelf - good grief the weight of the Logic Studio box! - full of tree was was left largely unread, I'm happy to get past printing information that goes stale on vast amounts of paper and go into online documentation, personally.

Especially given the percentage of users that *actually* read *any* parts of the manual at all. It's just a waste, imo.

Bedtime reading is for iPad Minis..!

[tea for two]

But in a way the updates are tied to the hardware so at some point you find like me that you're stuck with a particular version of Logic until you buy a new Mac.

This is so.
I'm chugging along on 2019 imac 10.5 LP. I only got my 2019 imac last year.

expectation was the Logic 11 would follow the same system, and we'd have to pay again. So the fact that Logic 11 is *not* a paid update is quite unexpected.

It's also good that Apple have, for now, stayed away from the subscription option that we feared might happen...

This makes it easier for me to punt for LP11.
LP11 should I get it who knows when lol will make me finally jump to an AppleSili machine.

PPS I see the iPad version is rental-based ...

That's what I have. Will update when available.

Speaking as someone who has the boxes for Logic 1/2/4/5-9 on my shelf - good grief the weight of the Logic Studio box! - full of tree was was left largely unread,

I had Logic 9 Studio Box felt like I was getting my pennies worth still I don't miss it. There's your dear self to explain stuff also so many utuub vids.

[S2]

I'm (pleasantly) surprised. I bought Logic Pro X when I got my iMac which is a late 2013 one, on the basis that all updates within that version (version 10) would be free but when 11 comes along then you'd have to pay. It's now 2024 and I think I paid £159 initially so I feel I've had good value, but to have access to 11 for free is excellent news. Coupled with the fact that I find it pretty intuitive I shall not be switching platform!

[BigRedX]

Speaking as someone who has the boxes for Logic 1/2/4/5-9 on my shelf - good grief the weight of the Logic Studio box! - full of tree was was left largely unread, I'm happy to get past printing information that goes stale on vast amounts of paper and go into online documentation, personally.

Especially given the percentage of users that *actually* read *any* parts of the manual at all. It's just a waste, imo.

Bedtime reading is for iPad Minis..!

Somewhere, I've still got my ring binder manual for the early versions of Logic, and IIRC you only got the complete manual when you first bought the program. All the updates were supplied with just the pages that related to the new or changed features and instructions for where they went in relation to the existing pages.

The problem that I have now is that I have very good knowledge of Logic up to and including V4, because I used it every day from 1994 until 2003 doing fairly complex stuff. After that I didn't really do any music on the computer until I started again a couple of years ago, so I essentially jumped directly to Logic X. This means that apart from the fact that Logic now comes bundled with pretty much every effect and instrument plug-in I could ever want, I have very little idea about what new features have been included since V4 and more importantly why I would want to use them.

On the occasions when I have tried to use the on-line help/manual I have found it to be seemingly very basic compared with the original printed manuals. This is why you'll find me on here asking all sorts of inane questions to things you probably think are very straight-forward. The Alchemy problem mentioned in my previous post illustrates this perfectly. Reading the on-line help was great for telling me what I needed to do, but useless for explaining exactly how to do it.

[muzines]

Somewhere, I've still got my ring binder manual for the early versions of Logic, and IIRC you only got the complete manual when you first bought the program. All the updates were supplied with just the pages that related to the new or changed features and instructions for where they went in relation to the existing pages.

For Creator/Notator, this was true. For Logic 1.x/2.x, you got the manuals, but updates came with little update manuals which were supplements to the original manual - they weren't ring binder pages you replace in the main manual like the earlier software. Logic 4.x and onwards were just full books.

The problem that I have now is that I have very good knowledge of Logic up to and including V4, because I used it every day from 1994 until 2003 doing fairly complex stuff. After that I didn't really do any music on the computer until I started again a couple of years ago, so I essentially jumped directly to Logic X. This means that apart from the fact that Logic now comes bundled with pretty much every effect and instrument plug-in I could ever want, I have very little idea about what new features have been included since V4 and more importantly why I would want to use them.

Sure - you've missed out on twenty years' worth of software development - you're not going to know about all the new stuff unless you dive in and get to the know the software again. *Much* of that early knowledge is still valid, BTW, there's just additional stuff, and often simpler/more straightforward ways of doing things that were once annoying.

On the occasions when I have tried to use the on-line help/manual I have found it to be seemingly very basic compared with the original printed manuals.

Yes, it is. Again, most people don't even read them, they're much more likely to look for a YouTube video explaining something, or they want someone to explain the answer to their problem rather than expend the effort to consult the documentation and figure it out for themselves. That's just people - for every one manual reader, there's probably a hundred, or a thousand, that would rather than do *anything* else than admit defeat and resort to cracking open the manual...

This is why you'll find me on here asking all sorts of inane questions to things you probably think are very straight-forward. The Alchemy problem mentioned in my previous post illustrates this perfectly. Reading the on-line help was great for telling me what I needed to do, but useless for explaining exactly how to do it.

I'm a mod on LogicProHelp, and I've been helping on various Logic forums for decades. Trust me, I'm *well* aware, more than most perhaps, of the questions and problems people have and ask about. And there's nothing wrong with that. And there's another fundamental problem with most manuals, is that they are *reference manuals*, when most people want a goal-focused "how do I achieve what I want to do?" type thing (another reason why they don't want to have to translate between the reference of what something is, and how to do what they want to do). Which is why asking other people who might know how to do something is more direct, albeit doesn't help develop an individual's problem solving skills generally.

No one minds people asking genuine questions - no one is born knowing everything. And in my experience, there's always someone who will be happy to try to help...

[BigRedX]

Thanks Muzines. That all makes sense.

The thing is that I am old school and and if I can work out how to solve a problem by reading about it, there is a good chance that I'll absorb some additional information on the way that will make me less likely to need to ask for help in the future.

I like reading manuals (weird I know). I taught myself Quark XPress from scratch by spending a weekend reading the manual. I was already familiar with other page layout programs but XPress at the time was miles ahead of the competition so there was a lot of new information as well as specific quirks in operation to take in. Then on the Monday I was laying out a 12 page catalogue of Cricketing products based on a couple of rough sketches produced by the designer, and on the Wednesday I had the marketing manager of Slazenger sat next to me going through amendments, completely unaware that this was only my 3rd day of actually using the program!

I find most video "tutorials" ineffective because either the person presenting them is just too irritating or, because you can't skim read through a video, I have wait for the content I actually want to be presented. On several occasions I have sat through 30 minute videos that appeared to contain the answers I was looking for only to find that my particular problem hadn't been addressed.

The current Logic help system as well as being too simplistic also appears to be completely non-linear, so I can't simply go to the beginning of the section I'm interested in and work my way through until I come to the information I'm looking for, and again along the way picking up knowledge that will probably help me in the future. If I don't know the specific terminology for what I need I might never find the right section simply via the links, and normally the best way to learn the terminology is to read the manual!

I'm going to post my Alchemy problem as a separate thread so that I'm clogging up this one, and hopefully at the same time as answering my specific question I'll learn enough about how this plug-in works to not need to ask similar questions in the future.

[muzines]

I agree with you completely, I like manuals too, and even read ones for gear I haven't got, and while videos can be useful, they are mostly not that good for trying to find a solution to a particular issue quickly. I also try to solve my own problems too, and by the time I resort to asking someone else from help, I've usually completely exhausted my own troubleshooting abilities - I generally don't like asking others for help, I prefer to solve my own problems in the main.

Unfortunately, we're rare breeds these days...

I've just seen your Alchemy question, I'll grab a cup of tea and have a look at it...

[ManFromGlass]

A few paragraphs a night when I had Logic manuals. Eventually they got so heavy with updates I broke both my wrists holding them up . . . . . . . . . just kidding!

I found the secret for youtube help - rip the video to your computer. Internet here is so slow that only low res works and I couldn’t figure most things out due to the blurriness. Then you can fast forward through the slow talkers (so many of them - gaah!) until you get to the meat of it. Then delete the vid or not.

Yes - solving ones own problems sticks with me longer.

[muzines]

...any time now...

[Dave Rowles]

I'm downloading right now

[muzines]

Release notes: https://support.apple.com/en-euro/109503

[IAA]

A mega update. A lot more content and some pretty useful fixes. I’m in the studio today so I’ll update and have a run around. I’m hopeful that the session bass works as I imagine. It could be really useful for my workflow.

Ian

[tea for two]

Ipad

Approx 340MB update on ipad Logic Pro 2.
Requires ipadOS 17 or later according to blurb.
https://www.apple.com/uk/logic-pro-for-ipad/
Logic update isn't available on previous ipadOS.

I was on 16.x.x ipadOS there was no Logic upade in my AppStore account.
After I updated to ipadOS 17.5 approx 3.5GB update, only thereafter Logic update appeared in my AppStore account to download.

New blurb says :
Chroma Glow recommended M1 ipad 2021 and later;
Stem Splitter requires M1 ipad 2021 and later. I'm on 2018 A12x ipad;
Mastering Assistant recommended M1 ipad 2021 and later, it's automatically on the Stereo Out.

New Auto accompaniment tools to download on ipad :
Start a Song 1.97GB;
Work with Chords 1.97GB;
Add a Piano groove 1.97GB;
Add a Bassline 1.97GB;
Meet the Session Players 1.97GB;
Explore Beat Making 588MB.

New Instrument Update packs to download on ipad has lots of Loops no option to deselect Loops when downloading installing :
Studio Acoustic Drums 3.03GB : 170 loops, 20 Drum samples;
Studio Basses 5.92GB : 170 loops, 6 Basses sampled;
Studio Electronic Drums 158MB : 60 loops, over 240 samples;
Studio Pianos 3.52GB : 160 loops, 3 Pianos sampled;
Studio Percussion 351MB : 23 loops, 62 patches.

[2pods]

On mac studio I already have the last v10.

Do I uninstall that and then install v11, or should I install over the top

What about loops, instruments etc uninstall, or install over them ?

[muzines]

Just update Logic from the App Store.

When updated, and first run, LP11 will update the extra content that it needs.