USB-B v UCB-C for durability

[Hugh Robjohns]

50 years ago XLRs were only available from Cannon and Switchcraft... then Neutrik joined the party. With only three manufacturers maintaining standards, tolerances and inter-operability was easy.

We now have umpteen knock-off cheapo alternatives appearing all over the place from the Far East, with wildly varying tolerances.

[The Elf]

i haven't met a USB connector I trust farther than I could comfortably spit it out. If pushed I'd take USB-B, with USB-C an uncomfortable second.

As soon as I see 'Micro' involved with any connection technology I groan inwardly - it never bodes well. The USB micro connectors are ghastly.

Then, of course, there's the problem of having to manage a historical rainbow of cables to manage all of this nonsense. I never seem to have the right cable at the right time. I've reached a point where I keep three or four spares of every shade of USB in my live case, yet I still worry I'm going to trip up.

[RichardT]

I personally much prefer USB-C for studio stuff. Much neater. For me, as I don’t disconnect and reconnect things much, it’s robust enough.

Live, I use a very simple set up without any USB. I’ve never dared use computers live, apart from an iPad for the music. And that’s fallen off the stand a couple of times!

[Sam Spoons]

Behringer penny pinching? I haven’t noticed issues with USB-B sockets in things like printers and scanners and my old MIDI keyboard.

My thought initially but the other USB-A socket on the back of the X32 is nice and solid so it ain't that simple.

But I do recognise that the socket implementation and its rigidity can vary from instance to instance.

Yup, strange that I have an X32 Compact and an X32 Rack and the USB-B sockets on both the X-USB cards are a bit dodgy. The X32R only has remote control on ethernet/RJ45 but the USB-B 'remote control' socket on the X32C is fine.

[zenguitar]

I've picked up a few USB-C cables with a right angled connector at one end. Where the direction doesn't make it foul against another connector I find that they are far less vulnerable and less likely to cause damage.

Andy

[ef37a]

I've picked up a few USB-C cables with a right angled connector at one end. Where the direction doesn't make it foul against another connector I find that they are far less vulnerable and less likely to cause damage.

Andy

I have done similar for my son's Tascam DR40X but for micro USB. He was concerned about damage to the USB port so a right angled plug allows him to keep it connected DR end and secured with a lacky band.

When I was running a desktop I extended the rear USB ports to the front with 500mm cables. Made connecting easier and saves wear on the MOBO ports. I used those self adhesive pads you can get, about 30x30mm that take a cable tie.

Dave.

[The Elf]

Now this is the kind of connector that inspires confidence.

[Folderol]

I think the whole of the USB system is a perfect example...
... of the worst possible way to develop a (non) standard.

[Drew Stephenson]

And yet, or maybe because of that, they're out there doing their thing across billions of devices.

[tea for two]

One thing is a device's usbB port has a thin metal front shroud which can become loose fall out happened on my Line6 KB37 if unplugging plugging usbB cable a lot.

If just plug in once and done then usbB or right angled usbC cable taping either to the device.

Approx 1mm metal showing in usbC cable seems par for course when plugged into device.
Approx 2mm metal showing in usbB cable seems par for course when plugged into device.
Makes usbB cable trifle more wiggly for my audio devices.

I've picked up a few USB-C cables with a right angled connector at one end. Where the direction doesn't make it foul against another connector I find that they are far less vulnerable and less likely to cause damage.

Andy

I have INIU right angled usbC cable for powering my laptop. I find right angled easier to tape to a device for a trifle more secure.

[The Elf]

USB is a success despite its ridiculous array of physical connectors - not because of it. USB is about transmitting data such that receiver and sender both know what's going on - that's the success part - much as MIDI has done. When everything was USB-A/USB-B we had one cable to find and everything was fine.

The first time I saw mini and micro connectors appear I knew we were in trouble. Now I have a fan-tail of USB connectors from a charger to satisfy every manufacturer's whim. And yet some stuff still rerquires a more powerful charger. Sigh...

MIDI arrived on DIN plugs - one standard connector. Everything worked, everything was fine... And then arrived MIDI on minijacks. Surprise, surprise, there are three bits of wire in a minijack, so we now have two 'standards' - yet another trap for the unwary and another set of adapters to manage not to lose.

I would love to be at some of the meetings that come up with this stuff. It must be hilarious.

[ef37a]

The idea of "sacrificial" adaptors is an old and good one Tea.
USB ports might be crap but we are stuck with them so buy some short, 200mm extensions and as you say, tape or otherwise fix them to the device or PC, whichever is going to get repeated pluggeratin'.

I did similar for an AP test set, was an old test set but it worked fine and would have cost limbs to have the XLRs replaced.

The C plug is permanently inserted into my M4 and the lead cable tied to the shelf it sits on. The interface can be used with 3 different laptops, getting those USB sockets replaced is a PITA if I need to but only a bit of money.

Dave.

[ef37a]

"
And now we have MIDI on minijacks. Utterly ridiculous. And, surprise, surprise, there are three bits of wire in a minijack, so we now have two 'standard"

Totally agree Elf, what were they thinking? DIN MIDI is a screen (so sleeve) and a differential signal so ring and tip. BLINDINGLY bloody obvious?

Dave.

[merlyn]

In the twentieth century there was USB A (host) and USB B (device). The convention back in those stone age times was that only hosts provided power. If you've ever hacked up a USB cable you will have found that there are four wires -- two for power and two for data. Having an input and an output end on cables meant that users with granny-level skills couldn't connect two power supplies together by plugging a host into a host.

There is a parallel here with XLR cables. Having different ends means that two phantom power supplies can't be connected together.

The distinction between host and device was becoming more fuzzy when OTG and camera kits appeared for phones. A phone could now be a host and a device. With USB C there is a negotiation between host and device to determine power, which in its simplest form is a pulldown resistor. USB C to C cables have an e-marker chip in them to negotiate power.

I imagine 90% of USB cables on earth are used for charging, not data.

[ef37a]

Merlyn, if you connected USB A to USB A on two computers you would be connecting +5V to +5V and 0V to 0V the only current flow would be the difference between the two fives which would be at worse a few tens of mV thus no harm done. Now I never quite trust that DC supplies are short circuit proof but they should be! In well over ten years abusing computers I have never managed to damage a USB supply.

Worse case for phantom power is a complete short but that will be limited by the required 6k8 resistors which, unless the maker has gone really cheap on their power rating should handle the current perfectly well.

But don't try any of this at home folks.

Dave.

[merlyn]

There's a couple of reasons not to try it at home. First, it may damage equipment. Second, out of all the things that could be tried at home, this is one of the less useful.

[ajay_m]

The big problem with usb in a live stage environment is that if you have more than one device with the same vendor and device id (for example I have two KMI Qunexus keyboards) and you don't always plug each device into the exact same port as you used last time, then software connecting to these devices (eg reaper) can get very confused.
A second issue is that any "hot plugging" of devices can lead to a scenario where software with an open midi or audio connection to the device doesn't cleanly recover and a reboot is necessary to get things working again.
Also implementing something like an 8x8 MIDI switch (like my old but trusty Ensoniq KMX8) in the USB domain is problematic.

To be fair though, USB was a vast step forward over various connectors like serial ports, centronics parallel ports and IEE488 bus devices along with SCSI etc and the requirement to configure DIP switches for ports and interrupts.

But it was never designed for a stage environment with devices plugged into different ports, hot plugging and the sort of dynamic routing any decent digital mixer can now do trivially. What the solution to all this is, I don't know unfortunately.

[The Elf]

In reality I've not found USB to be a huge problem for stage.

The worst thing is the computer deciding it's never seen a piece of gear before and allocating it yet another suffix number. As you say, this is typically because you've plugged it into a different USB port. I just expect this now, and it's the first thing I go through when I've powered up my stage rig. I could label all the ports and ensure I always use the same ones, but... I don't.

If you think about, the same problem would happen with a multi-port MIDI interface. You need to plug each piece of gear into the same MIDI port for your rig to work as expected.

I've used a laptop on stage for so long, I don't even think about it. I've never had a major problem, and it makes for a powerful and flexible performance system that allows me to do stuff I once could only have dreamed of. I'm a tad bemused when I hear people still afraid of doing it.

[sebpasquet]

What's the point of using USB-B if it can only to so much?

USB-C is more versatile and easy-to-get/replace if it ever loses durability.

[ef37a]

What's the point of using USB-B if it can only to so much?

USB-C is more versatile and easy-to-get/replace if it ever loses durability.

Do you mean A to B? It is not easy to replace USB ports of any type. I have several years ago replaced A ports on front panels on desktops but it is tricky to get the damaged one out and keep the print intact and that was in the days of "thru hole" construction. I have not seen the PCB track around a C port but I bet it is miniscule and need SMT techniques to fix.Certainly beyond me now!

Any connector that is soldered directly to a PCB is open to damage but what yer gonna do?!

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm guessing Seb is responding to the opening post and suggesting USB-C could have greater longevity (in terms of support / peripherals).