Recording a band in a garage

[GrahamGrant2]

I’ve been asked to record my girlfriend’s son’s band in a garage, which I’ve not done before. There are drums, guitar, bass and two vocal tracks to record. They are very limited in equipment, and I only have 8 inputs available so my plan is this:
DI guitar and bass
2x vocal mics
Glyn Johns 2x mics for drums
Extra mic for both kick and snare.

I will use amp sims within logic for the guitar /bass effects and then output via two Yamaha PA speakers for the band to monitor themselves.

They’re not experienced enough to sing with headphones, so the monitor mix will need to include the live vocal mics.

My two worries:
Feedback from the vocal mics as they will be through the pa speakers
Bleed into the drum mics

What would be the best placement of speakers / musicians to avoid feedback and too much bleed from the monitor mix into the drum mics.

Or if anyone has a better idea, please let me know! Thank you.

[Sam Spoons]

I've had excellent results using just a kick mic and an overhead on the drums to record live band gigs, with a close mic on the guitar amp, vox mics as required and DI the bass. Effectively you are recording a live gig here (even though there is no audience) so don't worry too much about spill, it can help 'glue' the instruments together in the mix.

Your biggest challenge is going to be the room, a standard garage is not going to be a great sounding space to record in so close miking (apart from the overhead*) and trying to get them to play at a moderate volume is probably the way to go.

Remember the important thing is to capture a performance so try to make the recording aspect not a 'big deal' (particularly if they are young and inexperienced) so they can relax and have fun.

* The Glyn Johns method will provide a relatively distant overhead but if you have time to experiment with kick, snare and hi-hat close mics plus one, closer, overhead that might work better for a rockier sound? That's all getting a bit above my pay grade though

[Drew Stephenson]

Hi Graham,
A few quick thoughts, in no particular order, and I refer you to the disclaimer in my signature.
1) Personally I'd sacrifice the stereo drums for a single overhead and mic up the guitar cab. That way you're not having to worry about any latency or having to use any amp-sim software on the way in.
2) Do the band actually need to hear the monitor mix? Or will using the PA speakers as vocal monitors be sufficient (as long as you can hear the overall mix via headphones?)
3) I assume they have a bass amp with a DI out or you're using a DI box and splitter?
4) What else is in the garage? Can you jam in as much sound absorbing material as possible? Especially around the drumkit.
5) Have the neighbours been consulted / informed? Garage roofs and doors don't tend to do a great deal in terms of stopping sound getting out into the neighbourhood.
6) I wouldn't worry about bleed, you won't be able to avoid it with loud instruments in small spaces. So be smart with your mic positioning, but sometimes that will mean accepting more good-sounding bleed rather than less bad-sounding bleed.
7) Whereabouts are you? There might be another forum-ite nearby who could lend a helping hand or a useful extra bit of kit if needed.
8) Are there any other undisclosed requirements? I.e. are the band going to pop up on the night and say, "Oh yes and we want to record some video..."

Smarter people than me will be along with better ideas and suggestions in due course I'm sure but that's where my head goes to start with.

[The Elf]

What's the purpose of this recording? If it's just 'a bit of fun' then I'd be tempted to simply put a couple of mic's (or a hand-held) in front of the whole band - maybe tap the vocal mic.

If it's about more than just a 'bit of fun' then it's to what degree you want to go. I'd start with getting them out of that garage and into a local hall, maybe. I've done this a few times and it makes life easier for everyone.

[ef37a]

What's the purpose of this recording? If it's just 'a bit of fun' then I'd be tempted to simply put a couple of mic's (or a hand-held) in front of the whole band - maybe tap the vocal mic.

If it's about more than just a 'bit of fun' then it's to what degree you want to go. I'd start with getting them out of that garage and into a local hall, maybe. I've done this a few times and it makes life easier for everyone.

My thought as well. Many years ago I recorded a band in a pub with just a pair of dynamics and a Sony "pro" portable cassette machine, did not turn out awful.
So at least try just recording the band in stereo as you would at an event, at the very least that will tell you 'what you are missing' as it were?

If you find it a struggle to get decent results (by your and their criteria) you might have to hire a church hall or similar to record in or even a professional studio?

Dave.

[James Perrett]

My advice is to keep things simple.

Will you have a chance to hear them play before doing the recording? If so, take a good listen to the drums. How well balanced are they acoustically? You might get away with just a single mic if you have a really good drummer although I'd suggest mics on the bass drum, snare and overhead to cover all eventualities.

Do the bass player and guitarist have their own amps? If so, use them and mic up the guitar. Forget about amp sims - that's a faff that you simply don't need at this point and having everything coming through the same pair of speakers will make things more difficult for them to hear.

Don't try and eliminate bleed - embrace it. Think of the overhead drum mic as an ambient mic for the rest of the band as well. Have them set up as they would on stage and then have the PA speakers facing them so that the speakers are in the less sensitive area of the vocal mics' polar patterns.

[GrahamGrant2]

Thanks all for the really useful comments. At present they are using an old Roland keyboard amp that I lent them with multiple inputs as a makeshift PA. I think it has got xlr outs for recording. They are basically DI into that amp although via fx pedals first.

I hadn’t thought of pa speakers facing them but I guess that makes sense, as the mics hopefully won’t pick up much of their output.

The garage itself is wooden with thick rubber flooring, so the acoustics aren’t terrible. And it’s in rural Aberdeenshire and the neighbours are just about far enough away to not mind too much…

Will let you all know how it goes, if my ears survive hours of their blend of grunge and screaming!

[ef37a]

Get some deffs GG! Or at least some ear plugs and I am sure you have a smart phone? Download an SPL meter, set it on a "C" weighting and take some readings of the band. If they stay above 90dB most of the time (they will) keep your exposures short, an hour tops then a couple of rest.

No good telling the band I am sure! 'Kids' just don't listen.

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

Do you plan on recording just using the Roland KC output or have you a multitrack recorder/audio interface/mixer of some kind? Without some kind of multitrack a stereo recording with two mics is probably going to be as good as you can hope for. Recording to stereo using DIs and close mics might give you a better result but it will be very hard to mix on the fly without an isolated control room.

Let us know what recording gear and mics you have (you've mentioned Logic already).

[paul tha other]

sounds like fun....I agree with the suggestion to do It with a couple mics and get a room sound.if you spend a bit of time setting it up(ie getting the volume and balance of the amps and the drums right), you can get pretty good results doing this..are you able to overdub after? id try get them to record the band live and get the singers to "mime" the vocals to the rest of the guys as the drums bass and guitars get recorded ,then do the vocals as an overdub, that way you keep the session quick and you have a bit more control over the vocals.plus you can put up a few more mics if you have them.....if you record the vocals at the same time and play them though the pa, i find that the vocals bleed over everything and you cant get them out the mix..thats only important if you want to change or redo the vocals at any stage ..also trying to get a vocal thats been recorded in the same room as a drum kit mixed is tricky, or at least I find it tricky sometimes..depends on the singer and how much spill is going in the vocal mic

when I record bands this way ,my opening line to them is " if the bass and guitars are to loud, they then have a negative impact on the sound of the drums".dont turn it down to the point where it isn't fun to play though, theres a fine line ..id point the amps away from the drums.

and most importantly, make sure you have plenty coffee(or tea, if you're a wierdo ) and choc hobnobs..it won't sound right without them

Paul

[shufflebeat]

I’m mainly with Paul.

The acoustic properties of choccy Hobnobs are well documented here and elsewhere and shouldn’t be skimped on.

Apart from that I’d be making a big ol’ tent out of mic stands and duvets for the (2 or 3 mic) kit and putting the vocals through the “PA” just enough to keep everyone together.

Record bass, drums and guitars together then take the singer(s) to the best sounding space to become familiar with the recorded track and practice with headphones. It can be done with “one on/one off” by just about anyone once they’ve stopped trying too hard.

[Sam Inglis]

I've done quite a bit of this type of recording and my experience is roughly as follows:

(1) Guitar spill onto drum mics often sounds great. Drum spill onto guitar mics usually doesn't. So turn the amps up, if you're using them, and don't worry too much about guitar spill from the PA if that's the approach you take.

(2) The biggest challenge is getting a decent vocal sound that doesn't also trash your drum sound by picking up tons of drum spill. If you can replace or overdub the vocals after the fact, do.

(3) It all tends to work better when the band are standing quite close together. Moving them further apart doesn't help with spill problems, it just makes them play badly and makes things sound ambient and washy.

(4) Unmixing / stem separation software can be really good for isolating vocals if you need to go that way.

Good luck!