My Garden Studio project

[dazzathedrummer]

Hi,

I've decided to knock down an existing unused garage/shed and build a studio at the bottom of my garden.

Hopefully I can use this thread to document it's progress.

I'm hoping the studio will be 'general purpose' in that I will be able to record drums, vocals and acoustic instruments as well as electronic instruments. I will be using it for recording, mixing and mastering and during the day I will be using it for my day job (I'm an accountant and I work from home three days a week).

At the moment my design covers 21m², I have some constraints in that the garden is 6.73m wide and there are restrictions on how close to the boundaries I can go (under 2m and there's a 2.5m height restriction, at 2m the height can be 2.5m at eaves and 4m in total), however the studio will be a good 15m from my house and probably 25m from the house behind so I might try for <2m to the boundaries and 4m height. There's also a tree that I can't move.

The build will be a post and beam construction with a double pitched roof (possibly with vaulted ceiling) and the walls will be built as a 'room within a room' with isolated internal and external walls.

I'm currently at a very basic design stage and what I'm interested in at the moment is...

• What kind of natural drop in decibels can I expect from a drum kit at 15M (assuming the drums are outside with no obstacles)
• On the diagram below, I've marked out my drum mat where I think it would do best - what would you do with the layout?
• I'm considering digging downwards to gain some extra height. Obviously there are considerations with flooding but I'm thinking that should be ok if there's concrete all the way around
• Acoustically, what would be the best size in terms of width and height?
• If you've done something similar, what advise do you have?

Here's my current plan - I'm open to change anything at the moment...



The 2500mm section already has a concrete base but I'm not adverse to breaking that up and starting again.

[James Perrett]

My current studio is similar to the sort of studio you want. I was subject to the same restrictions due to the permitted development rules.

If you are talking about a timber post and beam construction then I would say that you are going to have to expect the soundproofing to be compromised. Timber simply isn't heavy enough for effective soundproofing unless you use very thick beams.

Part of my studio is sunk into the surrounding ground as it has been built on a slight slope. We used engineering bricks for this section to prevent water ingress.

It also looks like you are going very close to the tree - I would be tempted to build a simpler, shorter and fatter rectangular structure if at all possible.

Edit to add - there are some construction pics at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 141&type=3

[Eddy Deegan]

If you do dig down at all it's worth bearing in mind that concrete is not waterproof unless it's been specially formulated with additives to make it so. As James points out you do stand a good chance of damaging the tree if you excavate too close to it.

Normally the maximum floor area of an outbuilding build without having to get building regs involved is 15m² (source) but depending on where you live there may be local authority guidelines.

The distance to adjoining houses is less important than the distance from the building to any of your boundaries. More info here.

[porthoss78]

I can't offer any advice on the build (I am jealous of your garden though, I don't have room for any outbuildings) but there is some useful information for a DIY approach in the Soundproofing Experts Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOTDGd ... qVo-ekJ-4g

They cover the complete build process from start to finish for their various projects around the UK. I think some of the earliest videos they have show them building all the studio frames and doors in the workshop too.

I think there are areas that a pro studio builder would do differently (and they know that) but for basic room within a room construction, they make it look pretty straight forward.

Good luck with it

[porthoss78]

If you do dig down at all it's worth bearing in mind that concrete is not waterproof unless it's been specially formulated with additives to make it so. As James points out you do stand a good chance of damaging the tree if you excavate too close to it.

Normally the maximum floor area of an outbuilding build without having to get building regs involved is 15m² (source) but depending on where you live there may be local authority guidelines.

The distance to adjoining houses is less important than the distance from the building to any of your boundaries. More info here.

Hi Eddy, I think this has now been updated and they've removed the 15m requirement (along with some other requirements), or it could be I'm reading it wrong. I found the link to the 'combined planning and building control' site at the top of the page you linked to which looks like a new version of the web page:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permis ... permission

From the page:

• Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

• No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.

• Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.

• Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.

• No verandas, balconies or raised platforms (a platform must not exceed 0.3 metres in height).

• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.

• In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from the house to be limited to 10 square metres.

• On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.

• Within the curtilage of listed buildings, any outbuilding will require planning permission.

Also from the gov.uk website which also doesn't include the 15m anymore:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... l-guidance

It seems like a relaxation of the rules but someone with more knowledge can probably confirm.

[Eddy Deegan]

Normally the maximum floor area of an outbuilding build without having to get building regs involved is 15m² (source) but depending on where you live there may be local authority guidelines.

Hi Eddy, I think this has now been updated and they've removed the 15m requirement (along with some other requirements)
...

I think you're right. Even re-reading the page I linked to it appears that up to 30m² is permitted so long as the building has no sleeping accomodation and is greater than 1m from the boundary or constructed from non-combustible materials

I went through something of a maze of checking and consulting before I constructed the outbuilding at the end of our garden some years ago and remember the whole process of determining what I could/could not do being rather convoluted!

[Drew Stephenson]

Last time I looked you could go up to 30m2 as long as your were more than 1m from any boundaries, and 15m2 if you were less than that (with a minimum of 40cm from a boundary).
There's also a 50% rule that says you can't develop over more than 50% of garden/yard space based on the amount of open area on the original house plans.
So if you've previous added a garage or extension this eats into that 50%.

But getting back to the original construction question, I share James' concern that a wooden build just won't give you the sound-proofing you (or your neighbours) require, especially if real drums are on the cards.

Also on the construction side, I'm assuming you're factoring this in but just be to be clear, for a room-within-a-room to be effective that also means two separate ceilings as well as walls. From an engineering perspective this can either make that external shell more difficult to construct, or mean sacrificing extra internal height.

In terms of room size / shape, I'd also steer you to a shorter, rectangular room - there's a handy calculator here that allows you to put in numbers and see what works https://www.acoustic.ua/forms/calculator7_1.en.html

In terms of sound reduction over distance, theoretically it drops off in proportion to the square of the distance. So at 15m it would be 1/49th of the volume at 1m. The real world is very different of course, with reflections, complex wave-forms at many frequencies and really sharp transients.

[EDIT - cross over with Eddy's post]

[dazzathedrummer]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

The tree is a bit of a concern - I may need to move the whole thing away from it.

On the 'post and beam' issue - I'm following a guy on YouTube who took a post and beam double garage and built insulated walls within and he was getting 95dB with his drum room door open and with him playing drums and 24dB with the door closed.
If I can get down to 24dB 15m from the house I'd be more than happy!

I'm going to have a long think about what I can do with the shape of it if it were 1m from each boundary and not near the tree. I read somewhere that you shouldn't build in a radius equal to the height of the tree - this would mean that I wouldn't be able to build anything even thought there is an existing garage/shed there.

[James Perrett]

On the 'post and beam' issue - I'm following a guy on YouTube who took a post and beam double garage and built insulated walls within and he was getting 95dB with his drum room door open and with him playing drums and 24dB with the door closed.

Can you post a link to the YouTube video? It is also worth remembering that 90% of studio related videos on YouTube are complete rubbish - we often have to help people here who have been misled by things they've seen on YouTube. I've just done a quick search on "post and beam drum studio" and all of the first few results show a complete lack of knowledge of how to properly soundproof a building.

I'm just about to embark on my 6th studio build (that's not including builds for other people that I've helped with). I've made all the usual mistakes on the way and my last studio was the only one where I was happy with the soundproofing. When my wife's band were rehearsing in there on a quiet summer's night with live drums, I couldn't hear anything from more than about 3m away from the door.

A while ago I found the results of an attenuation test that I did and I seem to remember it was something like 60dB at 100Hz at 1m from the studio door.

[Drew Stephenson]

If there's an existing structure there I think you can take that with a pinch of salt, but as this is clearly going to be a hefty project, and if you haven't already, I'd get an acoustician involved early on (i.e. now).
A few hundred pounds spent now might save thousands later or save it from being un-usable further down the line.

[porthoss78]

Normally the maximum floor area of an outbuilding build without having to get building regs involved is 15m² (source) but depending on where you live there may be local authority guidelines.

Hi Eddy, I think this has now been updated and they've removed the 15m requirement (along with some other requirements)
...

I think you're right. Even re-reading the page I linked to it appears that up to 30m² is permitted so long as the building has no sleeping accomodation and is greater than 1m from the boundary or constructed from non-combustible materials

I went through something of a maze of checking and consulting before I constructed the outbuilding at the end of our garden some years ago and remember the whole process of determining what I could/could not do being rather convoluted!

I hope it stays as the these newer requirements, they do seem quite reasonable, but perhaps a change in Government might mean more changes are ahead...

It's a bit confusing that they still have the old page up though, it must confuse people who are looking for the same information

Looking at the Soundproofing Expert videos, they just use non-combustible materials for the sides of the studio that are within 1m, the other sides of the studios are the usual wooden cladding. I'm not sure if that's what the requirements meant but it looks like it might be being interpreted that way!

[James Perrett]

Looking at the Soundproofing Expert videos,

It took me less than a minute to see that they are not soundproofing experts.

You would be safer ignoring their videos.

[Jorge]

You mentioned the shape of the studio. As a percussionist myself, I am well aware of the importance of reverberation, room modes and slap-echo in the recorded sound and have often wondered about the use of non-rectangular studio designs (eg, splayed or pentagonal walls, sloping ceilings) in controlling these natural acoustic effects. I looked through my small collection of acoustics and studio design books and did not find any substantial discussion of non-rectangular shaped studios. We do know that eliminating large parallel flat surfaces can strongly impact the room modes but the geometrical acoustics mathematics would become much more complicated and I haven't yet found examples worked out, measured experimentally, or computer simulated in any books. I haven't searched the academic acoustics literature.

Even so, I live close to the now-inactive Rudy Van Gelder studio where so many great jazz recordings were done in the 50s-90s. I have never been inside, and few photos are publicly available, but that studio is a large non-rectangular room with famously great acoustics for recording. Does anyone have experience with non-rectangular studios that sound great, or can you suggest any acoustics references that discuss that?

[porthoss78]

Looking at the Soundproofing Expert videos,

It took me less than a minute to see that they are not soundproofing experts.

You would be safer ignoring their videos.

Ah, in that case I retract my recommendation to the OP to check them out, other than out of curiosity. Thanks James

[James Perrett]

Looking at the Soundproofing Expert videos,

It took me less than a minute to see that they are not soundproofing experts.

You would be safer ignoring their videos.

Ah, in that case I retract my recommendation to the OP to check them out, other than out of curiosity. Thanks James

I've noticed at least one other YouTuber expounding the same construction technique that they use which wastes money on too much Rockwool but not enough mass to be effective. They even claimed that it was the Rockwool that provided the soundproofing!

[James Perrett]

Does anyone have experience with non-rectangular studios that sound great, or can you suggest any acoustics references that discuss that?

My last two studios have been non-rectangular but I know for sure that the last one was somewhat randomly designed because it was me that designed it. The one before that was done in conjunction with a studio build company but they seemed to stick to the dimensions I gave them so I'm not sure whether they actually checked my design.

The next studio will probably also be non-rectangular but this time I have challenged my son to come up with a computer modelling program to show the wall reflections from the monitors - I think he has got as far as modelling rectangular rooms but not angled walls yet.

Having a non-rectangular control room also means that the vocal booth and other rooms can be non-rectangular without losing too much space.

[dazzathedrummer]

Can you post a link to the YouTube video?

This is the guy with a post and beam double garage that built walls within the walls…

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI4d ... uMZ-UCUHEW

And this is the video where he tests the dB drop of his drum room - I mean, it’s not very scientific and the app he’s using won’t be in any way accurate but, you have to admit, he’s getting a decent drop in decibels and if I can achieve that 15m from my house I’d be very happy!

https://youtu.be/ZW3qXLZ79yo?si=jQTjNqQeYbhajDas

Also, I’ll just add that I’m not going to be constantly playing the drums. That will be for specific projects and likely to be planned for between say 11am to 2pm when I need to do it.
What I will be doing on a regular basis is composing with software instruments and singing. For drum practice I use an acoustic kit with mesh heads so minimal noise there.

[Drew Stephenson]

This is the guy with a post and beam double garage that built walls within the walls…

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI4d ... uMZ-UCUHEW

And this is the video where he tests the dB drop of his drum room - I mean, it’s not very scientific and the app he’s using won’t be in any way accurate but, you have to admit, he’s getting a decent drop in decibels and if I can achieve that 15m from my house I’d be very happy!

He does seem to have done a pretty good job there to be fair.
Though I think we have different ideas about what rush hour looks like outside.

Also, I’ll just add that I’m not going to be constantly playing the drums. That will be for specific projects and likely to be planned for between say 11am to 2pm when I need to do it.
What I will be doing on a regular basis is composing with software instruments and singing. For drum practice I use an acoustic kit with mesh heads so minimal noise there.

Sensible and pragmatic.

I do miss the days when this room would get down to those kinds of levels.

[James Perrett]

you have to admit, he’s getting a decent drop in decibels

Far too much waffle in those videos and far too little expertise. He's hardly putting any energy into the air when doing the isolation tests - I'd want to start with at least 100dB SPL at 100Hz when doing measurements like this. Looks a pretty meaningless test to me.

[dazzathedrummer]

Here's what I'm working with...



The garage/shed sits in a concrete base but its elevated around 6cm with a slope leading up to it.
I'm tempted to break it up for hardcore (same with the slabs at the back).

My wife did want to keep the bay tree but has now given the go ahead to move/get rid of it if necessary - as for as I understand, bay trees have a relatively small root ball.

So basically, anything goes!