These lyrics tear your heart out/and so well matched to the music - Turn the Lights Back On

[alexis]

This is Billy Joel's first release in ?... more than a quarter century. The vulnerability he displays is devastating. The lyrics conjure up pain and loss in a way that I can't remember any others matching at the moment, e.g.,

"Pride sticks out it's tongue,
Laughs at the portrait that we've become,
Stuck in a frame,
Unable to change ...
I was wrong".

Such power and skill in describing the deepest regrets for love and life lost, and self-recrimination for being responsible for the state of things ...

And the accompaniment ... it's like a hymn, or is it funeral music? Chosen and matched to the lyrics so skillfully, tastefully, effectively.

https://youtu.be/UOf6CMbHPuA?si=OYKzNfWZJx9Il5WG

Is he writing about a love gone cold, all but lost?

Is he writing about himself ... is it too late for him to make music again?

Does he know my heart and soul (like he used to so long ago)?

I can't really watch this without tears.

Part of me says to be upset that he's so good and I'm so bad, then the other part of me says STFU, just bow your head and be grateful you are around to hear/receive this gift, this beyond genius level of songwriting.

OK, anti-rant over!

PS: For what it's worth ... a great use of AI in music (depicting him playing the song over the decades)!

[Drew Stephenson]

Interesting. I like the song, but I'm really not a fan of the production. I wonder what it would have sounded like with a much more stripped back and intimate approach.

[RichardT]

They are very good lyrics - but, as an English person by birth, the line ‘laying in the dark’ makes me think of chickens, and I honestly find it hard to get past that image.

[alexis]

Interesting. I like the song, but I'm really not a fan of the production. I wonder what it would have sounded like with a much more stripped back and intimate approach.

Just goes to show how people have different opinions, I was self- commenting on how sparse the arrangement was! By memory the whole first verse and chorus, over 1 min maybe approaching 2, was only voice/ piano.

It did get a little rowdier later of course ... !

[alexis]

They are very good lyrics - but, as an English person by birth, the line ‘laying in the dark’ makes me think of chickens, and I honestly find it hard to get past that image.

I am having what I'm sure is a completely wrong mental image of what happens to those poor chickens in the dead of night, I apologize

[OneWorld]

They are very good lyrics - but, as an English person by birth, the line ‘laying in the dark’ makes me think of chickens, and I honestly find it hard to get past that image.

I am having what I'm sure is a completely wrong mental image of what happens to those poor chickens in the dead of night, I apologize

And I think they are keeping us in the dark as to what came first, the chicken or the egg, but they're not telling us, Henyway, I guess ChatGTP will tell us

As for Billy Joes lyrics, well I was listening to the radio t'other day and the programme was about Swedish Songs of Lament, and here was one that caught my ear, it was called 'Young Courage' sort of a Swedish Romeo and Julienbt I guess, here is a rough translation of the lyrics, according to the presenter.

A brave death is never hard, and pain is just a part,
You wail like a bird lost in the winter storm.
flapping its frozen wings,
but going nowhere,
you might as well build a nest at the foot of the tree,
and lay down there to die.

Now that was a barrel of laughs to listen to - not. Well I never found myself whistling along to it. Heart wrenching songs abound all around the world.

[Drew Stephenson]

Interesting. I like the song, but I'm really not a fan of the production. I wonder what it would have sounded like with a much more stripped back and intimate approach.

Just goes to show how people have different opinions, I was self- commenting on how sparse the arrangement was! By memory the whole first verse and chorus, over 1 min maybe approaching 2, was only voice/ piano.

It did get a little rowdier later of course ... !

The arrangement is simple, but the approach is still 'big' - if that makes sense? Even at the beginning.

[alexis]

Interesting. I like the song, but I'm really not a fan of the production. I wonder what it would have sounded like with a much more stripped back and intimate approach.

Just goes to show how people have different opinions, I was self- commenting on how sparse the arrangement was! By memory the whole first verse and chorus, over 1 min maybe approaching 2, was only voice/ piano.

It did get a little rowdier later of course ... !

The arrangement is simple, but the approach is still 'big' - if that makes sense? Even at the beginning.

This is great, thank you, Drew!

Listening again, I'm wondering if I'm hearing what you are describing, "big" even though it's just piano and voice.

The idea of piano and voice as the main vehicles for telling a story is something I think of a lot. I had this one filed away, by Adele, https://youtu.be/hLQl3WQQoQ0?si=62zi6MSVfvukusSf , and it reminded me a lot of the new Billy Joel song in terms of production (and substance/topic as well, but that's not what you've got me thinking about here).

To help me understand better what you mean by big, would you say Adele's simple piano/voice intro is big in almost exactly the same way? Or are there differences between them that would cause you to answer, "No," to that?

Thank you again!

[alexis]

They are very good lyrics - but, as an English person by birth, the line ‘laying in the dark’ makes me think of chickens, and I honestly find it hard to get past that image.

I am having what I'm sure is a completely wrong mental image of what happens to those poor chickens in the dead of night, I apologize

And I think they are keeping us in the dark as to what came first, the chicken or the egg, but they're not telling us, Henyway, I guess ChatGTP will tell us

As for Billy Joes lyrics, well I was listening to the radio t'other day and the programme was about Swedish Songs of Lament, and here was one that caught my ear, it was called 'Young Courage' sort of a Swedish Romeo and Julienbt I guess, here is a rough translation of the lyrics, according to the presenter.

A brave death is never hard, and pain is just a part,
You wail like a bird lost in the winter storm.
flapping its frozen wings,
but going nowhere,
you might as well build a nest at the foot of the tree,
and lay down there to die.

Now that was a barrel of laughs to listen to - not. Well I never found myself whistling along to it. Heart wrenching songs abound all around the world.

Yup, OneWorld, definitely another laugher and knee-slapper there as well!

[amanise]

Very late to the party on this one, but what can I say? It's Billy Joel... everything about it is going to be epic.. some people are just there to show the rest of us the way.

[tea for two]

"Pride sticks out it's tongue,
Laughs at the portrait that we've become,
Stuck in a frame,
Unable to change ...
I was wrong".

Such power and skill in describing the deepest regrets for love and life lost, and self-recrimination for being responsible for the state of things ...

Is it easier to sing aboot something than to actually do something about it to improve ourself as a person to become what we sing we should be .... I dooon't reaaally knoooow.

Billy has had amazing wives children career. So I couldn't say what Billy is referring to. I couldn't say whether this from Billy would seem sincere to say a homeless person or a person in a refuge camp or a person in prison that took many wrong turns they wish they hadn't, or a person that self loathes self harms.
I can say most would deem my life a failure in many ways : personal, relationships, career. For me this from Billy doesn't hit home I'm sorry to say.
Johnny Cash version of Hurt hits home for me.

[RichardT]

They are very good lyrics - but, as an English person by birth, the line ‘laying in the dark’ makes me think of chickens, and I honestly find it hard to get past that image.

I am having what I'm sure is a completely wrong mental image of what happens to those poor chickens in the dead of night, I apologize

the chickens are laying eggs

[Drew Stephenson]

Listening again, I'm wondering if I'm hearing what you are describing, "big" even though it's just piano and voice.

OK, so the acoustic space that the piece is set in sounds like a large room. Billy has a big set of lungs and he's singing like he's projecting to the that big room. His piano playing is quite forceful even in the quieter sections.
It feels like it's building to the big section even from the off.

To help me understand better what you mean by big, would you say Adele's simple piano/voice intro is big in almost exactly the same way? Or are there differences between them that would cause you to answer, "No," to that?

To my ears the production on the Adele track is a bit different. It's still a fairly large sound stage but they've made her voice much more close up. As if she's standing in front of the piano (which is a bit weird as the piano appears to be set up from a player perspective) - whereas the Billy definitely sounds like he's at the piano singing. I mean, as Adrian says, it's very him.

To give an alternative though, he's what I would consider a much more restrained production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gyqLt ... A&index=24
And I just wonder what that might have come out like?
Possibly something a bit more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWiPFT0v2c

[amanise]

He's a little smasher, our Billy. Did anyone see the interview documentary with him by Brian Johnson of ACDC a couple of years ago. A really quiet - almost shy - self effacing kind of guy. Billy that is. NOT Brian

[alexis]

Listening again, I'm wondering if I'm hearing what you are describing, "big" even though it's just piano and voice.

OK, so the acoustic space that the piece is set in sounds like a large room. Billy has a big set of lungs and he's singing like he's projecting to the that big room. His piano playing is quite forceful even in the quieter sections.
It feels like it's building to the big section even from the off.

Yes, I see what you're saying, after you say it
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To help me understand better what you mean by big, would you say Adele's simple piano/voice intro is big in almost exactly the same way? Or are there differences between them that would cause you to answer, "No," to that?

To my ears the production on the Adele track is a bit different. It's still a fairly large sound stage but they've made her voice much more close up. As if she's standing in front of the piano (which is a bit weird as the piano appears to be set up from a player perspective) - whereas the Billy definitely sounds like he's at the piano singing. I mean, as Adrian says, it's very him.

OK, thx for that, I will listen more closely to Adele vs Billy in these tracks.
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To give an alternative though, he's what I would consider a much more restrained production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gyqLt ... A&index=24

Yes indeed! I'd never heard this performer before, very nice. I see his influence on some aspects of your style (or vice versa?).
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And I just wonder what that might have come out like?
Possibly something a bit more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JWiPFT0v2c

Very interesting, thanks for that link!

BJ's production choice reminds me a little of his style in "She's Got A Way" https://youtu.be/rOPm_Zoaj9k?si=9olaB5hAFaswu3Ru , c. 1971, his first release?) and "She's Always A Woman (Except Every Third Tuesday Night at the Why Not Saloon)" https://youtu.be/Cx3QmqV2pHg?si=2yAEpC73OjdtIKPA . Each of those start a little more restrained than his current one.

I wonder how much thinking Billy Joel did about the production style before he landed on the released one. I have to believe he knew about Tom Jones' song, and of course he could have done the full pop rock version, etc.

Thanks for your enjoyably provocative and educational comments, Drew!

[Drew Stephenson]

Thanks for your enjoyably provocative and educational comments, Drew!

I'm not sure I can claim either of those things!
I just remember seeing a video on songwriting where the presenter (I can't remember who I'm afraid, but someone with a stack of credits) was talking about making sure the music and the performance matched the message - so if you're talking about being broken and distraught and in all ways not right, but the performance / production is all polish and perfection, then that presents a bit of a disjointed listening experience. Or it just sounds false.

To be clear, the Billy video is quite a way from that, and we have decades or his material to reference (either directly or subliminally), but I would love to hear a live version with him and a small band in a cosy room somewhere. Just to hear the difference.

BJ's production choice reminds me a little of his style in "She's Got A Way" https://youtu.be/rOPm_Zoaj9k?si=9olaB5hAFaswu3Ru , c. 1971, his first release?) and "She's Always A Woman (Except Every Third Tuesday Night at the Why Not Saloon)" https://youtu.be/Cx3QmqV2pHg?si=2yAEpC73OjdtIKPA . Each of those start a little more restrained than his current one.

Yeah, allowing for the difference in recording and production trends over time you can clearly see it's all in his style but to me there's a bit more variety in the performance intensity in those two - particularly the second one.

[alexis]

...

BJ's production choice reminds me a little of his style in "She's Got A Way" https://youtu.be/rOPm_Zoaj9k?si=9olaB5hAFaswu3Ru , c. 1971, his first release?) and "She's Always A Woman (Except Every Third Tuesday Night at the Why Not Saloon)" https://youtu.be/Cx3QmqV2pHg?si=2yAEpC73OjdtIKPA . Each of those start a little more restrained than his current one.

Yeah, allowing for the difference in recording and production trends over time you can clearly see it's all in his style but to me there's a bit more variety in the performance intensity in those two - particularly the second one.

Will review focusing on that ... thank you!

[RichardT]

There's also quite a lot of piano compression on the new track, which helps make it feel bigger.

[alexis]

There's also quite a lot of piano compression on the new track, which helps make it feel bigger.

Excellent!

In a way it seems so counterintuitive to me: Get a master pianist to play their best on a $100K Steinway Concert Grand ... then change the tonality and expressiveness by applying loads of compression.

[alexis]

...
BJ's production choice reminds me a little of his style in "She's Got A Way" https://youtu.be/rOPm_Zoaj9k?si=9olaB5hAFaswu3Ru , c. 1971, his first release?) and "She's Always A Woman (Except Every Third Tuesday Night at the Why Not Saloon)" https://youtu.be/Cx3QmqV2pHg?si=2yAEpC73OjdtIKPA . Each of those start a little more restrained than his current one.

Yeah, allowing for the difference in recording and production trends over time you can clearly see it's all in his style but to me there's a bit more variety in the performance intensity in those two - particularly the second one.
...

A little sad here ... comparing the two earlier songs with the current "Turn the Light On", I think the latter is lacking in "intensity dynamics" (is that a thing?).

And in this case I think it holds the song back a bit from how much greater it could be. More one dimensional emotionally, in a way. And it shatters my love for the song, at least it takes it down a peg or two, this (overly clinical, I fear) dissection.

Dang, Billy is gonna hold these comments against me, I just know it

(In all seriousness, this whole discussion has been super helpful to me, thank you everyone)!

[Drew Stephenson]

Sorry about that!

And I hear that Billy does not forgive...

[OneWorld]

Dang, Billy is gonna hold these comments against me, I just know it

Never mind, it'll give him something else to sing about, he'll be giving you a pat on the back