How graphic should imagery in lyrics be?

[RichardT]

I'm writing some words for my piece about the pandemic.

In one piece, called Aftermath, I'm writing from the point of view of someone who has just lost a loved one and is coming to terms with what's happened.

I've come up with a line to describe their grief which uses very graphic imagery.

I'm not going to quote it here as it would be distracting, but it certainly has had a powerful effect on me, and I imagine it would on those who sing it and listen to it.

That might sound like a good thing, but it could upset people and become the focus of attention when it shouldn't be. So I'm thinking of toning it down.

I'm wondering if anyone has had to come to grips with this problem and if so, how you resolved it? More generally, where do you put the boundary in your own lyrics?

[alexis]

My thoughts:

It needs to satisfy the writer first and foremost. Got to be honest with oneself, or listeners may/will probably feel they're being sold a bill of goods and be more likely to tune out at the deepest level.

If there's an audience involved it has to satisfy some minimal criteria. Is there a radio target? One kind of club or another? There are rules that must be obeyed, some more rigid than others.

Shocking and gross? I think it's hard to predict what will turn people off instantly, completely, and forever, vs. be taken up as a rallying cry, as one possible way It might be received. Or, for another example of how people might react, the graphic bits might just be simply ignored in the service of listening to the whole song ("yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye", e.g.).

Maybe try the lyrics out on people you trust and gauge reactions? Not perfect, but that may help.

My two cents, I'm excited for you!

[Drew Stephenson]

There's a fine line between tailoring a message for the audience and over-sanitisation or self-censorship.

My tuppence (and that's all I'd pay for my advice) is that it all depends on context and purpose.
By way of example, I have a light-hearted song about henchmen and a line towards the end refers to cleaning up using "a body bag and a mop" after dealing with the 'hero'.
That could be quite gruesome in something that didn't have a comedic context.

Similarly, what's the purpose? If to shock, or jolt people out of a comfortable bubble, then a graphic lyric can grab the attention (in the same way a single expletive can when used carefully).

So given your proposed context (and the subject of the wider piece), does the use of this lyric support the overall purpose or distract from it?

[Exalted Wombat]

It needs to satisfy the writer first and foremost. Got to be honest with oneself, or listeners may/will probably feel they're being sold a bill of goods and be more likely to tune out at the deepest level.

Which really comes down to "It needs to satisfy the AUDIENCE first and foremost."
Sincerity can be faked. A lot of bollocks can be talked about 'artistic integrity'. The bottom line is 'will they buy it?'

[Martin Walker]

And of course, WHO IS your intended audience?

This popped into my feed today:

Sabrina Carpenter apologises after child sings explicit version of 'Please Please Please'

https://www.indy100.com/tiktok/sabrina- ... e-swearing

[Dynamic Mike]

If the sentiment is sincere then use it. If it's intention is to shock then don't. But don't censor yourself for fear of upsetting people, sometimes being upset is part of the process of dealing with grief.

[RichardT]

Thanks everyone for your valuable insights.

I’ve decided to go with the tamer version. The graphic version would be too much of an ‘ouch’ moment, mostly for the singers who would have to rehearse it a number of times.

To be honest, the words of classical choir pieces are often not heard properly by the audience!

[amanise]

Thanks everyone for your valuable insights.

I’ve decided to go with the tamer version. The graphic version would be too much of an ‘ouch’ moment, mostly for the singers who would have to rehearse it a number of times.

To be honest, the words of classical choir pieces are often not heard properly by the audience!

Late again Rich - sorry - however, for what its worth in respect of past traumas and imagery. Your listeners will have their own burned in imagery which will kick in if it wants to. You won't be able to to have much effect on that. If your aim is to project empathy and help them with it in some way maybe its best to allude to the imagery you see, and let them join the dots from their own experience. Then you're showing them empathy, and they'll appreciate that for what it is - i.e. you reaching out to them. You might try and nail their exact experience with your words - but you're unlikely to get there - and I doubt the empathy would come across from trying.

And that the words are often lost somewhat in music without the loss of much impact at all is evidenced by the entire genre of hard rock music - which has had massive impact without anyone being able to understand most of the lyrics ever written. Your score already describes my own experience of the pandemic uncannily closely, and like a picture, already paints a thousand words. It's no Hammer Horror sound track.

[RichardT]

Thanks Adrian, that's a very insightful comment.

[tea for two]

Would it be possible to read a couple lines at all.

[Eddy Deegan]

In my view it's all about context. There are plenty of tracks out there that use profanity gratuitously and that doesn't work for me but I've written two songs (neither released) which use the 'F' word. Both are about 'spiky' things in life. I searched long and hard for alternatives but ended up leaving them both as is because I felt the impact of the word was the best fit.

I'd not release anything with profanity in it unless I didn't care about the reception it got. In the event I manage to get decent renditions of the songs I mention above I'll release them without hesitation.

[Dynamic Mike]

Generally speaking I don't like the use of the F word in songs, not because it's offensive but simply because it tends to sound forced. But I'll make an exception for Frank Turner's 'Eulogy'. It wouldn't have the same impact without it, so I guess context is everything.

[RichardT]

Would it be possible to read a couple lines at all.

Hi T42,

here's the tamer version.

All business done, the air hangs heavily.
A darkness grips me and I must start my life without them.
Sometimes, bright daggers cut my skin*;
At night I lie awake in ceaseless nausea.
The smallest problem stings,
To clean the house is the toughest thing to do.
I'm so deathly tired, but, thank fortune,
I have someone to care for.

We grieve alone.
What can we do but keep going,
Hoping the light rises?

Originally 'skin' (highlighted with an asterisk) said 'veins'.

[adrian_k]

Personally, I think that “veins” is good here, although could be triggering for some.

I think it could be harder hitting, which I wouldn’t do personally, if you replaced “cut” with say “carve”, “slice”, “cleave”, etc

Or you could go the other way, with something like “part my skin”.

Either way it’s a powerful passage.

[amanise]

You could even move further away than that by just alluding to the cut - maybe "sharp daggers meet my skin". Conveys the jeopardy without fully going there?

[ConcertinaChap]

In my view it's all about context.

Drew said the same and I agree. In my view context is everything. An angry song needs angry words, and Lord knows there's enough to be angry about nowadays.

CC

[amanise]

In my view it's all about context.

Drew said the same and I agree. In my view context is everything. An angry song needs angry words, and Lord knows there's enough to be angry about nowadays.

CC

Its not an angry song though, it's a beautiful orchestral score with a choral part.

[RichardT]

You could even move further away than that by just alluding to the cut - maybe "sharp daggers meet my skin". Conveys the jeopardy without fully going there?

I like that idea, maybe 'touch' instead of 'meet'. It leaves more to the imagination.

[amanise]

You could even move further away than that by just alluding to the cut - maybe "sharp daggers meet my skin". Conveys the jeopardy without fully going there?

I like that idea, maybe 'touch' instead of 'meet'. It leaves more to the imagination.

That's the sort of thing. The introduction of a slight bit of ambiguity enriches the message , I think. Touch enunciates better for the singers, probably.

[Eddy Deegan]

The nature of the arrangement (orchestra / choral etc.) seems less important to me than the intention of the artist here.

"Sometimes, bright daggers cut my veins" is a perfectly valid lyric and a lot tamer than many. It puts me in mind of NiN's 'Hurt' (famously covered by Johnny Cash), which is as uncompromising as it is evocative.

Given the lyric as described I'd not try and dress it down. Just say it as is. My opinion only, of course. In my case one of the tricky songs is called 'The Devil Inside' and alludes to mental health issues. The chorus as it stands goes like this:

Gonna play with your emotions,
Gonna f**k with your brain,
I will feed your insecurities
And thrive on your pain.
I will drive your friends away from you
Then consume you alive.
You will never get away from me …
... I am the devil inside.

Dark lyrics when isolated but the song is about, and ends on, a positive note. I was impressed by some of the responses to Richard's original post above but nothing replaces the 'F' word for me in the lyric above.

If anyone can punt something better, I'm all ears. To counter the negative of the above lyric, the last verse is:

But for all of my ferocity,
I’m still part of you,
And I bring creativity,
Strength of character too.
But remember I’m always here
And your fight never ends,
Get assistance from those who care,
Irreplaceable friends.

I don't mean to hijack the topic but it's a really good question to raise and there's surely an art to expressing inner thoughts in lyrics in a manner that delivers a message without being overly explicit.

[amanise]

The nature of the arrangement (orchestra / choral etc.) seems less important to me than the intention of the artist here.
...
I don't mean to hijack the topic but it's a really good question to raise and there's surely an art to expressing inner thoughts in lyrics in a manner that delivers a message without being overly explicit.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that Eddy. It's an art for sure - creative, cathartic, therapeutic, courageous, inspirational - all sorts of things. It's also intensely personal with no single approach that works in all circumstances in my experience. One of the areas of music creation that carries the most personal risk, unless you're venting and writing about some other annoying person's personality traits, but then that's cathartic sometimes. Perhaps we need some Grammy winners to chip in with some thoughts

[Dynamic Mike]

You could even move further away than that by just alluding to the cut - maybe "sharp daggers meet my skin". Conveys the jeopardy without fully going there?

I like that idea, maybe 'touch' instead of 'meet'. It leaves more to the imagination.

Personally I'd go with 'rent'. It's less graphic than 'cut' but essentially means the same thing.

[tea for two]

Would it be possible to read a couple lines at all.

Hi T42,

here's the tamer version.

All business done, the air hangs heavily.
A darkness grips me and I must start my life without them.
Sometimes, bright daggers cut my skin*;
At night I lie awake in ceaseless nausea.
The smallest problem stings,
To clean the house is the toughest thing to do.
I'm so deathly tired, but, thank fortune,
I have someone to care for.

We grieve alone.
What can we do but keep going,
Hoping the light rises?

Originally 'skin' (highlighted with an asterisk) said 'veins'.

I already find this moving Rich.

[OneWorld]

Generally speaking I don't like the use of the F word in songs, not because it's offensive but simply because it tends to sound forced. But I'll make an exception for Frank Turner's 'Eulogy'. It wouldn't have the same impact without it, so I guess context is everything.

Call me an old romantic but I tend to agree with the use of profanity, it gives the impression the use of such words are there for effect, but don't really convey much apart from the fact that the writer is stuck for something to say that is both graphical and prosaic. And I reckon if Gershwin, Rogers and Hammerstein, Beethoven, Bob Dylan, John Lee Hooker, Howling Wolf, Dolly Parton and so many more got by without effin' and jeffin I reckon I can too - aim high and arrange for a soft landing, what can go wrong

When growing upn I used to get a thick ear for using potty talk then nowadays we get plaudits for it, is it any wonder I'm confused, so when I matured I settled on the maxim, "It it's doubtful, don't, why bring trouble to your frnot door when it'll find you anyway"

[RichardT]

The nature of the arrangement (orchestra / choral etc.) seems less important to me than the intention of the artist here.
...
I don't mean to hijack the topic but it's a really good question to raise and there's surely an art to expressing inner thoughts in lyrics in a manner that delivers a message without being overly explicit.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that Eddy. It's an art for sure - creative, cathartic, therapeutic, courageous, inspirational - all sorts of things. It's also intensely personal with no single approach that works in all circumstances in my experience. One of the areas of music creation that carries the most personal risk, unless you're venting and writing about some other annoying person's personality traits, but then that's cathartic sometimes. Perhaps we need some Grammy winners to chip in with some thoughts

Yes, it’s an important question. For me poetry / lyrics need to have insight and power, and the power comes from creating an image that goes beyond the words.

For example:

Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you dont really care for music, do you?

Without saying anything explicitly about it, this brings to mind a deep, unbridgeable and grief-filled rift between two miserable people (we know that Leonard Cohen is a musician to his bones).

I think using the F-word is fine if it contributes to this kind of imagery.