Roland GS-500 incoming

[BJG145]

Err, yes, just the guitar bit. Not the GR-500 synth bit. And it’s a bit rusty, but I don’t care if I can wring a few notes out of it. The synth controls don’t currently work but I’m thinking I can rewire them for MIDI.

It would be cool to get the sustainer circuit working. Gonna need Wonks’ help with this. I can see him shaking his head already.

[The Elf]

Rats! For many years I've been trying to find someone with a GR-500!

[BJG145]

I know! But I just want a cool-looking guitar with a single humbucker.

[S2]

Rats! For many years I've been trying to find someone with a GR-500!

I’d like one but they seem to go for silly money on eBay. I’m still looking….

[The Elf]

For many years I've worked on emulating the GR-500 (e.g. the 'one synth challenge' from a few years ago - which did seem to convince a few people!), but I've never managed to get my emulations side by side with the real thing.

The GR-500 is capable of delivering a gorgeous sound IMHO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozga4oRO6rE

[BJG145]

My preciouss

[zenguitar]

Lovely

Andy

[Drew Stephenson]

Far too complicated for this old string slapper!
Good luck with it.

[sonics]

I remember playing one when it came out. How old am I feeling now?! Lots of memories; the early days of those butterfly feelings I later recognised as GAS.

[OneWorld]

Eeeeeeh, reminds me of when I were a lad, and that's some time ago, did they find this when they brought the Mary Rose up from the depths. I drooled my way through Saturday afternoons looking at things like these, it's a fine looking tool

[BJG145]

The main source of info for vintage Roland guitar synths is Wayne Joness.

It's difficult to find 24pin Roland cables nowadays, but Wayne mentions a guy called "Magic Trashman" in the US who makes his own version. I just got in touch and ordered a custom GS500 connector with cable.



Some guitar functions like the infinite sustain circuit require +/- 14V power, but I'm hoping I can read some of the controls without it. The current plan is to wire this cable up to Teensy and use it to generate MIDI data which can be fed into an SY300 along with the humbucker output to create an affordable controllable synth voice for it. There's a pinout on Wayne's site...

https://www.joness.com/gr300/24pin.htm

[arkieboy]

It is possible to modify the controller and synthesiser units to use a regular centronics socket/cabling - I think there are sensible headers on the boards so it can be done relatively easily.

I think that's on Wayne's site too.

[BJG145]

Yesterday I finally got to pair this up with a Roland GM70 I picked up from Lithuania on eBay, and a made-to-order 24pin cable.

I was surprised that it worked at all. It did work though...to an extent. I was able to trigger MIDI from the top five strings. I knew the latency would be pretty bad, but still, the tracking was passable and it whet my appetite for more MIDI guitar.

I like getting old stuff working, but in this case, I think it would be folly. Instead I reckon I'll pick up one of the more recent guitar synth or MIDI offerings. Ultimately the dream would be to build some Teensy-based box of tricks that could let me adjust parameters by twiddling the knobs. For now though, I think I'd be happy just to get some cheesy synth string/flute sounds with a latency that let me hear them the same day.

[Stratman57]

Then you need a Boss GK5 pickup and a Boss GM800. Zencore synth engine and knobs for twiddling. It does pitch to MIDI as well, so can drive other gear. Works great with my Beringer Model D.

Regards, Simon.

[Dave.P]

Then you need a Boss GK5 pickup and a Boss GM800. Zencore synth engine and knobs for twiddling. It does pitch to MIDI as well, so can drive other gear. Works great with my Beringer Model D.

Regards, Simon.

GK5 and GM800 here, working well so far and as said can drive any soft synth too.

[Dave.P]

Forgot to mention - V Guitar forum is a great place for information if needed.
Probably well known, but worth mentioning.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php

[S2]

Thing is the GK5 and GM800 combo is not exactly a cheap option (£600 or so for the unit) and AFAICS doesn’t include any guitar modelling. The GK5 kit seems to be around £350 or more, which makes it nearly a grand all in. The stick on pickup is less but realistically you need to install the kit if you ever want to use it in public, as the stick on pickup looks pretty naff! Also it doesn’t seem to have any switches or volume control, or even a guitar signal so it’s basically a huge downgrade from the GK3. And they are charging £200 for it - go figure!

For a few synth sounds and no guitar modelling that seems excessive to me, though of course I might be a little out of touch and maybe haven’t quite embraced the idea of gear lust!

I have a GR55 and GK3 which I use live and I won’t be changing any time soon, and they are half the cost. I’m told the tracking is better on the newer system, however setup is key on these things and with care and proper setup you can still get great results on the older system.

Personally I think there are too many compromises and it’s far too much money, but it might come down in price.

[Stratman57]

No, it doesn't include any guitar modelling, that would require a VG800, but I'm sure the original post was about synth sounds only.

The cost of the GK5 and the GM800, with access to Roland's Zenology library is pretty competitive compared to the cost of other poly synths. Plus it can drive any other MIDI devices, both hardware or VSTi one might have access to.

I do have the VG800, and use it for the guitar modelling aspect, 5 string open G, 12 string overlayed with the normal guitar pickups, plus other combinations.

In my band there is a keyboard player so I don't need the GM800, but for sound design for drama projects it's very useful.

Regards, Simon.

[S2]

Fair enough. The poly synth world is not something I have a lot of experience in so I’m happy to bow to knowledge. Just seemed a lot.

The comments re the stick on GK5 pickup still stand though and I see Paul White has done an article about installing the GK5 kit - a much better solution.

Hopefully they’ll be some s/h GK3 guitar kits popping up on eBay soon as I’d like one to fit into a project guitar I’m doing.

[Wonks]

The problem with used GK3 Installation kits is that they will probably have lots of cut-down wiring looms to minimise excess wiring that has to be somehow fitted in the guitar. The 13-pin output socket has two ribbon cables going to it (one 6 strand, one 7 IIRC) which aren’t that flexible and take up a lot of any free space in the control cavity.

If you want to rout out a cavity to fit the control board (which is a lot smaller than the GK5 one as no processors are involved, just some buffering circuitry) as Paul White did, then for a guitar like a Strat, the 13 pin output will need to be fitted to the lower edge of the guitar nearer the middle, as ribbon cable length will preclude mounting it further back unless you have the board in the main control cavity.

This is what I did with Arkiboy’s GK guitar which had the 13 pin connector on the edge below the standard Strat output jack. But it means you have lots of cables arching up from it before bending down again, and with the length of cable you need to be able to remove the Strat scratchplate, it becomes a very difficult process to push all the wires in so you can screw the scratchplate down as a wire will invariably end up between the body and scratchplate.

So I think any used GK3 installation kits will as a minimum need to be from an identical style guitar to the one you plan to use it on, and be prepared to extend wires.

Also, the GK3 power on LED is much bigger than the GK5 kit one, so people upgrading installation kits will like me, probably reuse the existing LED and holder.

You don’t really need the LED IME, as the synth will either work or it won’t. But some find it reassuring to have and know the cable is connected properly.

So I’d be wary of buying a used GK3 installation kit, especially as they weren’t expensive to start with - in the £80 region 4 years ago IIRC.

So I’d probably stick with an external GK3 unit or buy a new GK3 installation kit.

[S2]

That’s good advice and I’ve just looked and £95 gets you a brand new kit. I’ll go for one of those. The external kit is just a non starter really (IMO) as they don't look good and the kits aren’t particularly difficult to install.

Irritating that the GK5 LED is smaller - odd design choice. Personally I like the LED as I find it comforting but yes, it either works or it doesn’t so it’s not essential

[Wonks]

And as I mentioned in another post, the new LED is not only smaller, but a much brighter type (and green, not red), so the GK5 circuit has a much higher value current limiting resistor, which makes a re-used GK3 kit LED connected to a GK5 board quite dull in comparison to how it used to be on a GK3 kit.

[OneWorld]

This morning I was listening to Desert Island Disks on the Radio and the guest was David Gilmour. At the end of the programme, the guest is asked what luxury they would like to have, if marooned on the deserted island and Gilmour said "It would have to be a guitar, without a guitar life is impossible" I am sure I speak for many when I say 'I know exactly what he means'

Another comment he made, in respect of a guitar, he remains to this day, spellbound at the fact that just plucking at a few string can express such profound and vivid emotion and he feels so privileged that he was gifted the inclination t pick up a guitar.

Of course this applies to all other instruments as well, whether you blow it, press it, squeeze it (bagpipes etc) or whatever.

[BJG145]

...absolutely. I just picked up a pBone (plastic trombone). But only because I'm rubbish at guitar.

Of course it might turn out that I'm rubbish at trombone as well...

I was imagining an inexpensive secondhand guitar MIDI or synth box that would work off the regular output to start with. Maybe a Meris Enzo or SY-200.

*edit*

...just spotted the Enzo X is out. Needs a SOS review...!

[arkieboy]

I think if you want to dip your toes in the water, then the Jam Origin MIDI Guitar plugin is a decent place to start. Lowest cost, no special pickup. Load it into your computer and plug your guitar into your interface and off you go.

The 'most versatile' unit is indeed the GR-55 - being able to do both pitch detection with an internal sound unit and waveform reshaping. I never bought one because it seemed like everything was a bit of a compromise.

I did inherit a GR-33. While it lacks the COSM stuff on the 55, I like the synth engine a lot - it's a JV1080 derived unit. It's easy to programme, it tracks solidly, and they can be picked up for around 100 notes. Wonks has a GR-30 (?) which is an even simpler version - too simple for me - but they are also easy to pick up and sound the same.

If you have more notes to burn, then the GM-800 and the appropriate GK pickup are the dogs. The tracking, latency and ease of setup on the 800 are the best I've ever tried (I've owned GR-700, GM-70 GR-50, Axon AX100 Mk II, GR-33, and the GM-800), and received wisdom on VGuitar forums is that the combo is the best ever. There are some significant frustrations about access to the Zen Core engine, which might not concern you at all, but it sounds fabulous and it would have happily have replaced my 12u Axon rack with a E5k and a Supernova II back in 2010 (well maybe not the Wavey, but I wasn't using the Wavestation SR properly at that time).