Combining Control Room Outs of Two Identical Mixing Consoles for Direct Monitoring

[Jackie The Shepherd]

Friends,

Back with another issue while setting up my studio.

Mine is a hybrid setup of audio interfaces / DAWs and analogue mixer(s), coupled with multi-computers as external synths.

With increased channel counts on my two audio interfaces, 2 ADAT Pre's and a 1212M also with an ADAT Pre, considering that I shall be using the 1212M in a 1616M configuration (breakout box). Plus there are two more PCs, one with a classic WR192X and the last one with Echo Mia 2496. This gives me an enormous number of channels, so I can basically plan such that drums take up a set of say 8 channels, and the rest configured suitably.

This of course puts me in a fix with regard to channel availability on my analogue mixer. Since I plan to mix on the analogue mixer first before any work inside the DAW, I bought an identical mixer so that I now have sufficient channels with the two mixers running in parallel (yes, parallel, and not daisy chained).

The point at which I am now stuck is monitoring the mix.

I read a review of this product on SOS by Hugh Robjohns as in the link below:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/art-splitmix4

Not finding anything on the internet or in books about my unique setup, I decided to go for the ART SPLITMIX4, that would allow me to feed the monitor outs / control room outs of both mixers into the four mix inputs and take the mix out to feed my Crown XLi 800 power amp, which then connects to my legacy Tannoy Reveal monitors.

Can anyone tell me if this is a workable method to monitor?

[The Elf]

You seem determined to make life as difficult as possible for yourself...

[Jackie The Shepherd]

Yeah I know but I still would like to have a nice answer if available

[The Elf]

You say you've already decided to buy the SplitMix anyway, but yes... it should work.

Do you have anything at all running successfully yet? Rather than keep on adding gear to this theoretical system you would be wise to test each part of it as you go.

[Drew Stephenson]

You say you've already decided to buy the SplitMix anyway, but yes... it should work.

As The Elf says, if you've got two sets of signals that you need to mix together then you'll need some kind of mixer...

[Jackie The Shepherd]

You say you've already decided to buy the SplitMix anyway, but yes... it should work.

Do you have anything at all running successfully yet? Rather than keep on adding gear to this theoretical system you would be wise to test each part of it as you go.

I have already purchased the SplitMix4.

[Hugh Robjohns]

This is a repeating theme in your posts of engineering systems in the most hideously complex of ways and buying things without due diligence, only then to ask whether they are appropriate.....

Gotta say, you're doing it all the wrong way around and making life so difficult for yourself!

However, given that you need some way to mix together the outputs of two consoles you will clearly need some form of mixer.

...and the Splitmix is, indeed, some form of mixer.... a passive, unbalanced, stereo mixer.

So, given your earlier fanaticism over creating balanced direct output feeds, it seems rather odd to now that you would choose to create unbalanced monitoring outputs, while also incurring a significant loss of signal level...

But yes, it could potentially work... or you might find you have insufficient volume and ground loop issues.

[ef37a]

For the very best audio quality I would think one of the top grade monitor controllers would be the best solution.
Choose carefully though because in addition to the usually functions, source select, speaker select, mono, 'oop,' you need to mix two sources and not all controllers do that.

Hugh has reviewed a great many over the years I am sure one or two will meet your needs? 'Twere I, I would simply build a passive resistive mixer. The sources should all be at very low impedance ~100R and so such a device would not impact on frequency response and of course, resistors do not create distortion, at least not at non-lethal voltages!

Just a thought, must be a few SSL 'Sixes' on Ebay by now?

Dave.

[Jackie The Shepherd]

This is a repeating theme in your posts of engineering systems in the most hideously complex of ways and buying things without due diligence, only then to ask whether they are appropriate.....

Gotta say, you're doing it all the wrong way around and making life so difficult for yourself!

However, given that you need some way to mix together the outputs of two consoles you will clearly need some form of mixer.

...and the Splitmix is, indeed, some form of mixer.... a passive, unbalanced, stereo mixer.

So, given your earlier fanaticism over creating balanced direct output feeds, it seems rather odd to now that you would choose to create unbalanced monitoring outputs, while also incurring a significant loss of signal level...

But yes, it could potentially work... or you might find you have insufficient volume and ground loop issues.

Thanks. Though my power amp will accept balanced signals, the speakers are the old Tannoy Reveal - unbalanced.

I believe I should be able to compensate for the attenuation using the level controls on the SPLITMIX4.

[Jackie The Shepherd]

For the very best audio quality I would think one of the top grade monitor controllers would be the best solution.
Choose carefully though because in addition to the usually functions, source select, speaker select, mono, 'oop,' you need to mix two sources and not all controllers do that.

Hugh has reviewed a great many over the years I am sure one or two will meet your needs? 'Twere I, I would simply build a passive resistive mixer. The sources should all be at very low impedance ~100R and so such a device would not impact on frequency response and of course, resistors do not create distortion, at least not at non-lethal voltages!

Just a thought, must be a few SSL 'Sixes' on Ebay by now?

Dave.

Any recommended budget ones? I see something called Mackie Big Knob Passive Studio Monitor Controller which I shall study.

[Sam Spoons]

Assuming your Tannoy Reveals are passive (or you wouldn't need the power amp) they are neither balanced or unbalanced. Running a balanced connection to the amp would be the nearest you could get to a fully 'balanced' system. Putting the SplitMix into the system means that the connections between the mixers and the power amp are all unbalanced.

Since you've bought the SplitMix already why don't you try it and let us know if it works?

[Jackie The Shepherd]

Sure.

And by the way, mixer control room outs are unbalanced.

[The Elf]

Though my power amp will accept balanced signals, the speakers are the old Tannoy Reveal - unbalanced.

New or old, this is not relevant. Only powered speakers are likely to have a balanced input, since they are expecting a line feed. Passive speakers are expecting a +/- pair of wires from an amp - they will never be 'balanced'.

By going into the SplitMix before your amp you will be providing the amp with an unbalanced signal. You will have to take care with your wiring, since the SplitMix has stereo jack I/O - you don't want to get into the stereo/balanced confusion.

[ef37a]

For the very best audio quality I would think one of the top grade monitor controllers would be the best solution.
Choose carefully though because in addition to the usually functions, source select, speaker select, mono, 'oop,' you need to mix two sources and not all controllers do that.

Hugh has reviewed a great many over the years I am sure one or two will meet your needs? 'Twere I, I would simply build a passive resistive mixer. The sources should all be at very low impedance ~100R and so such a device would not impact on frequency response and of course, resistors do not create distortion, at least not at non-lethal voltages!

Just a thought, must be a few SSL 'Sixes' on Ebay by now?

Dave.

Any recommended budget ones? I see something called Mackie Big Knob Passive Studio Monitor Controller which I shall study.

No! I rarely condemn any piece of audio gear but the Mackie BK Passive is a flawed design. It puts a much too low a load on one 'leg' of a balanced source and does not preserve balanced through the device. I have one I have 'retired'. I might tear it apart one day and make it 'proper'!

If you need 'cheap' look at a small Mackie or Yamaha mixer.

Dave.

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I believe I should be able to compensate for the attenuation using the level controls on the SPLITMIX4.

Er.. no. The attenuation is DUE to the (passive) level controls in the SplitMix. Even with the controls at max you'll still get a 12dB loss through the box.

Hopefully, there'll be enough gain in your power amp to compensate.

And bear in mind that the connections to/from the SplitMix are stereo unbalanced on TRS connectors. So you will need splitter leads for both input and output, dual TS to TRS etc.

[Sam Spoons]

Sure.

And by the way, mixer control room outs are unbalanced.

Fair enough

[Jackie The Shepherd]

I believe I should be able to compensate for the attenuation using the level controls on the SPLITMIX4.

Er.. no. The attenuation is DUE to the (passive) level controls in the SplitMix. Even with the controls at max you'll still get a 12dB loss through the box.

Hopefully, there'll be enough gain in your power amp to compensate.

And bear in mind that the connections to/from the SplitMix are stereo unbalanced on TRS connectors. So you will need splitter leads for both input and output, dual TS to TRS etc.

Got it. Thanks