Cassette Tape Transfer

[siderealxxx]

Aloha. I've got my hands on a bunch of rehearsal tapes from the 90s; a lot of improv and who knows what. I'm seeking out a tape player to do a digital transfer.

The tapes haven't been touched for 25+ years. Are they likely to play back ok? Should there be any kind of Abbey Road style pre-treatment?!

Any other advice prior to loading them into the machine? Should I aim to do a first pass transfer incase the tape disintegrates?

Curious!

[James Perrett]

I know I've written a few posts about this in the past so I'll just re-iterate the most important points...

Before playing the cassette, check the pressure pad. Foam pressure pads will have disintegrated by now but fortunately most 90s cassettes used a piece of felt on a sprung metal bar. Occasionally the felt may come unstuck but usually they are fine. Also check that the reels move freely and take up any slack so that you don't end up with a loop of tape going somewhere it shouldn't when you hit play. Most tapes play with no problems but some Scotch and Ampex tapes aren't so good so be prepared to clean the machine thoroughly after attempting to play one of the bad ones.

Probably the most important adjustment that you need to make when you play a tape is the head azimuth. If the azimuth is too far out you will not be able to recover the best quality audio because the signal will be comb filtered. I prefer to play cassettes without noise reduction active and then add it in software afterwards. Anaxwaves make some good noise reduction plug-ins for reasonable prices.

If you don't have a suitable player then be prepared to replace the belts and rubber parts on any player you buy (unless you buy a serviced machine from a reputable source). These tend to only last about 20 years at most. At the budget end of things I quite like Aiwa machines but Nakamichi machines really seem to have a much more solid and focussed sound compared to any other that I've used.

[siderealxxx]

Many thanks, I've dug back through the forums to look it over. Will do some tests when I get my hands on a deck this week. Kinda curious what I might find!

[resistorman]

You can actually still buy new decks made by Tascam, some with USB even, but they ain't cheap. There are also new ones from Pyle for a couple hundred dollars.

[James Perrett]

You can actually still buy new decks made by Tascam, some with USB even, but they ain't cheap.

By all accounts they aren't actually very good as they are based on the same cheap Tanashin mechanisms that the budget machines use.

[ajay_m]

Something like the Yamaha kx390 which can be picked up secondhand at reasonable prices. These are good decks, I have one picked up years ago at a car boot sale for the odd cassette transfer. Not a nakamichi for sure but well made and pretty decent quality.

[hz37]

Wind the tapes all the way to the end of side A and back to the beginning of it. This will lessen the chance of introducing wow due to sticking tape during the transfer process.

[Tim Gillett]

I'm seeking out a tape player to do a digital transfer.

As mentioned due to low demand there are few new machines available these days but still many used. Used machines will probably have issues. For the same reason of low demand, spare parts and service personnel are not nearly as plentiful as they used to be.

A well working machine is important to avoid damaging your recordings while playing them, and to provide good fidelity. I always test the machine, but always with an unimportant tape, not with a valuable recording.

The tapes haven't been touched for 25+ years. Are they likely to play back ok? Should there be any kind of Abbey Road style pre-treatment?!

Cassettes have generally fared very well over the decades unless stored poorly or played on poorly maintained machines, and often but not always play back without a hitch.

James' suggestion to confirm the little felt pressure pad is well intact before playing is good advice. This is not just a fidelity issue, for when this small part is missing or damaged, a machine can literally 'eat' the tape in seconds. And the same type of tape damage can occur with a good cassette but played in a poorly performing machine. Both tape and player have to be in good condition.

Any other advice prior to loading them into the machine? Should I aim to do a first pass transfer in case the tape disintegrates?

Really, if the prior preparation is done on the cassette and the machine, the tape is unlikely to be damaged in the first or even the fifth pass. But yes why not capture the first pass? Due to carelessness I once permanently stretched a few seconds of a customer's tape but had already made a good transfer on first play, which was a relief.

Be wary of C120 cassettes. A machine may play C60 and C90 cassettes without issue but the thinner and weaker C120 cassettes can be easily damaged in the same deck.

All things equal, a '2 motor' cassette machine will be more reliable or at least easier for a tech to make reliable.

But it's difficult to train people over the www to deal with every scenario or problem. For more detailed information about cassettes and players there's the specialist Tapeheads forum. All the best with it.

[James Perrett]

For more detailed information about cassettes and players there's the specialist Tapeheads forum.

While there may be a few experts on that forum, there are also an awful lot of people spouting rubbish on there too. The same goes for most forums that cover domestic tape formats. There are probably only half a dozen or so people active on forums that I would trust to give accurate information and at least half of them are on here.

[ConcertinaChap]

You can actually still buy new decks made by Tascam, some with USB even, but they ain't cheap.

By all accounts they aren't actually very good as they are based on the same cheap Tanashin mechanisms that the budget machines use.

I have one for its convenience because it also includes a CD player. The cassette section is OK but I'm not going to rave about it. The principle reason for mentioning it is the USB bit. Yes you can plug in a memory stick and digitise music from a cassette to it but the facility is very limited, so at can only produce mp3's at one bit rate (124 kbps, if memory serves me), no other format such as wav is available. Fortunately I didn't buy it for this use.

CC

[sonics]

I haven't done any tape transfers for years, but I would often move the tape from lesser-quality shells to known good-quality ones before recording, to improve stability and consistency of playback. I'd also re-splice the reels if there was an issue with them. I recall having had some sort of high-strength master shell I used, I think. It's been so long...

[Tim Gillett]

For more detailed information about cassettes and players there's the specialist Tapeheads forum.

While there may be a few experts on that forum, there are also an awful lot of people spouting rubbish on there too. The same goes for most forums that cover domestic tape formats. There are probably only half a dozen or so people active on forums that I would trust to give accurate information and at least half of them are on here.

The reason I mentioned TH was not because I see them as the be all and end all on cassette digitizing related matters but because the main focus of the forum is tapes and tape machines. In most if not all audio forums, discussions specifically on tapes and now obsolete tape decks tend to form only a small part of the total discussion topics. But yes inevitably on internet forums, as in life, there will be a mixture of informed and not so informed statements.

[James Perrett]

I haven't done any tape transfers for years, but I would often move the tape from lesser-quality shells to known good-quality ones before recording, to improve stability and consistency of playback. I'd also re-splice the reels if there was an issue with them. I recall having had some sort of high-strength master shell I used, I think. It's been so long...

Yes, it is often a good idea, particularly with the welded Scotch tapes, to transfer the tape to a new shell. I still have a stock of unused tapes here from our old cassette duplicating days which I mainly keep for their decent quality shells.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

I have a couple of Maxell XLIIS shells I used for that. Only because it seemed to be the best cassette shell I could get my hands on.

[sebpasquet]

If you notice any signs of deterioration like squealing or dropouts, it’s best to transfer the audio right away to preserve whatever you can. Some folks recommend baking the tapes in an oven at a low temperature if they start to flake, but that’s a last-resort measure

[James Perrett]

Some folks recommend baking the tapes in an oven at a low temperature if they start to flake, but that’s a last-resort measure

No - that's not a last resort. It is a basic first step with certain brands of tape. This is the kind of misinformation that is prevalent on other forums but will not be allowed to go without comment here - which is why I suggest avoiding Tapeheads and similar forums where such poor advice is rife.

[Tim Gillett]

Aloha. I've got my hands on a bunch of rehearsal tapes from the 90s; a lot of improv and who knows what. I'm seeking out a tape player to do a digital transfer.

The tapes haven't been touched for 25+ years. Are they likely to play back ok? Should there be any kind of Abbey Road style pre-treatment?!

Any other advice prior to loading them into the machine? Should I aim to do a first pass transfer incase the tape disintegrates?

Curious!

Can you give us some details about these cassettes you have such as TDK SA C90, Maxell UD C60, Ampex 20 + 20 etc? Do they appear to have been well stored? Without this sort of information, only general advice can be offered.

[ken long]

I haven't done any tape transfers for years, but I would often move the tape from lesser-quality shells to known good-quality ones before recording, to improve stability and consistency of playback. I'd also re-splice the reels if there was an issue with them. I recall having had some sort of high-strength master shell I used, I think. It's been so long...

Yes, it is often a good idea, particularly with the welded Scotch tapes, to transfer the tape to a new shell. I still have a stock of unused tapes here from our old cassette duplicating days which I mainly keep for their decent quality shells.

Just to add to this very good advice: make sure you replace the shell with the same type (Normal, CrO2, Metal) and place the reels on the correct side of the shell (A side, B side). Sounds obvious but from experience, is easily forgotten!

Squealing can be remedied with new slip sheets or loosened screws or playback on a deck with a less forgiving transport. Would try all those things before considering a bake. I've only ever baked a few cassettes.

A bad pack can usually be sorted with a few winds back and forth before playback. If the pack is still kinda loose and depending where the gap is, a gentle manual wind past the leader can help tighten the slip. You can use a pencil for this or, if you're feeling flush, a hand winder.

[sonics]

All good advice, especially considering the resurgence of the cassette format.

I still can't believe that's actually true! No money in they world could make me go back to dealing with analog tape, however wide. What a queer world we live in.

[ajay_m]

Let it play through. This will wind the tape gently and evenly onto the take-up spool. Then turn it over and repeat. Takes a bit of time but it does get the tape reeled nice and even. Then clean heads to remove any deposited gunge; if there is noticeable contamination assuming they were clean to start with that is a potential concern and may indicate gentle baking is required. Otherwise time to actually transfer. Also an opportunity while doing a test play to check optimum levels of course.

[Tim Gillett]

Let it play through. This will wind the tape gently and evenly onto the take-up spool. Then turn it over and repeat. Takes a bit of time but it does get the tape reeled nice and even.

Yes 'play wind' or 'library wind' has been used with tapes for a very long time and is recommended in preparing the tape for long term storage or transit.

Then clean heads to remove any deposited gunge; if there is noticeable contamination assuming they were clean to start with that is a potential concern and may indicate gentle baking is required.

This thread is about compact cassettes. As suggested by Ken, binder issues in cassettes requiring baking are rare overall. In any case playing or winding any tape with such binder issues is not recommended, for it can permanently damage the tape. Best identify any such tape issues before playing or winding the tape on a machine.
.

[James Perrett]

Let it play through. This will wind the tape gently and evenly onto the take-up spool. Then turn it over and repeat. Takes a bit of time but it does get the tape reeled nice and even. Then clean heads to remove any deposited gunge; if there is noticeable contamination assuming they were clean to start with that is a potential concern and may indicate gentle baking is required. Otherwise time to actually transfer. Also an opportunity while doing a test play to check optimum levels of course.

I would always aim to record the first pass - you never know if it might be the last opportunity... Optimum levels aren't really an issue with cassette - with a reasonable 24 bit A/D convertor you could be 20dB or more too low with no ill effects. Just avoid going too high.