A Few Thoughts on Field Recorders

[Roland Harris]

Possibly of interest for those who record outside the studio, as a change from blog posts about mics, more mics, windshields and shockmounts, I've just written a post with a few thoughts about field recorders. Or to be more precise, a bit about the three current field recorders I own, all of which are out of production (Sound Devices 788T, Sound Devices MixPre-3 and Zoom F8n): so no detailed testing/reviews of new/pre-production gear this time! Obviously there has been plenty of discussion of these recorders, and their updated versions, over the years, but perhaps something in my ramblings may strike a chord or be of interest to someone, and, for fun, I included a (mid-side) field recording (not music) comparison using the three recorders, which you can download and play around with. Here's the post: https://drbadphil.com/a-few-thoughts-on-field-recorders
Cheers,
Roland

[Hugh Robjohns]

I think I'd agree with your thoughts, really.

I don't own a 7-series Sound Devices but I have used them professionally many times. I'd agree that the 7 — and now 8-series — do have better preamps than the MixPre or the Zoom, but the differences are very small and won't bother most people in most situations.

My 'posh' recorder is a Nagra VI which has stunning preamps and is a complete joy to use... but it has only four internal mic preamps and so requires external preamps (two analogue for 6 channel, or four digital for eight channel) for larger channel count recordings. I use this machine for my 'serious' paid-for work.

My grab and go machine is the Zoom F8n Pro, running on an NP1 external battery. Although technically not as good as the Nagra, it is still plenty good enough for most things, and it's a lot more portable.

I can sync the two machines using timecode, if necessary, although I tend to use a SADiE LRX for bigger jobs.

[Roland Harris]

Thanks Hugh. Yes, a Nagra VI would be lovely! Not sure I'd fancy using two machines only synced by timecode for recording music: guess it depends on how close the two clocks are and exactly how you are using the respective mics. Anyway, in due course with another 788T I can use word clock (made even easier by C. Link connections) for those rare times I need more than 8 tracks. All good fun.
Cheers,
Roland

[Hugh Robjohns]

Not sure I'd fancy using two machines only synced by timecode for recording music: guess it depends on how close the two clocks are and exactly how you are using the respective mics.

I agree. I've proved it works — at least for short recordings. I've had no need to use it in earnest, though, and, as I say, I use the LRX for bigger jobs anyway.

[ConcertinaChap]

Thank you, that was really interesting. You're working a whole level up from me so I found this both aspirational and inspirational. I also have 3 machines I rely on, the Zoom F8n is my posh one so you can see where I'm coming from The smallest is a little Olympus LS10 that I frequently have around my person just in case. The middle one is a Tascam Portacapture X8 that I reviewed for SOS 2 years ago and fell in love with. Decent preamps for the price, ditto the onboard mics, very portable and a splendid UI.

CC

[Roland Harris]

I agree. I've proved it works — at least for short recordings. I've had no need to use it in earnest, though, and, as I say, I use the LRX for bigger jobs anyway.

Yes, proof of the pudding is in the eating: and with avoidance of long recordings and, say, splitting a stereo pair across two recorders(!), it all becomes more feasible. Still, word clock is a good thing!
Cheers,
Roland

[Roland Harris]

Thank you, that was really interesting. You're working a whole level up from me so I found this both aspirational and inspirational.

Thanks for the kind words!
Cheers,
Roland

[tea for two]

https://drbadphil.com/a-few-thoughts-on-field-recorders
Cheers,
Roland

Did you swap out the 5400rpm for a SSD on the 788t, pretty straightforward, takes upto 2TB Fat32.
https://www.sounddevices.com/replacing- ... -the-788t/

I too dig the 788t display turning red for recording, green for playback, also its light up buttons, light up ring around dials. It's like their designers realised the more sophisticated a device the more for dummies its interface should be.

Batteries NP-1, NP-L60 for 788t gets pricey, so the AA's for Mix Pre3 is alluring.

[Arpangel]

I'd like to mention Zaxcom, especially their Deva recorder.
Not a very well known name to some, but the Deva was/is an exceptional machine.
Never owned one myself but I've been on many location sessions where we used the Deva many years ago, and we were always amazed at how good it sounded.
They have a very "natural" sound, and in cases where sound quality is of prime consideration the Deva would have been my first choice. They have a few operational quirks, but nothing major you can't get used to, unfortunately they aren’t available now, and parts are hard to find.
Other recorders mentioned here are all excellent, but Zaxcom produced some very good stuff, just thought I’d id give them a mention.

[Roland Harris]

Did you swap out the 5400rpm for a SSD on the 788t, pretty straightforward, takes up to 2TB Fat32.

My recorder is a 788T-SSD, so never had a HDD, but, given that the old SSD in it was over 10 years old and had been used for production sound (so probably a busy life), I swapped it for a new one (Samsung 870 EVO): as you say, a very simple thing to do. Replaced internal battery too.

Cheers,

Roland

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes Zaxcom had some very good products, but it's hard to keep a high tech business viable with such a small location film sound market, and such strong competition.

[Arpangel]

Yes Zaxcom had some very good products, but it's hard to keep a high tech business viable with such a small location film sound market, and such strong competition.

Yes, and I think they may have had a bit of trouble with reliability, and quality control.
I know Mike's machine had a few minor issues, but the sound was very good indeed.
We both noticed a difference when using other machines, not to say in any way that they weren’t very good, it’s only when we started using the Deva that we noticed something. It was a very natural sound, that’s all I can say, especially at high frequencies, the "jangly key area" it just sounded right.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've been out of the loop too long — they are still making the Nomad and Nova /2 recorders, and the Deva24 us still listed but currently unavailable due to parts shortages. Good to know they are still in the market — I haven't seen them around for ages!

[Roland Harris]

I've still not seen a Zaxcom Deva in the flesh. Aaton has sadly gone, of course, and Nagra seems to have moved to hifi, so all is not so rosy in the field recorder world. It would be interesting to hear some comparisons of the current top-end recorders, such as the Sonosax SX-R4+ and the SD 8 series/Scorpio: I'm not entirely certain that the latter offer any tangible improvement in preamp/ADC quality over the 7 series, but happy to be proved wrong. At the current rate, I may even buy a (by then) old one in 10 years' time!
Cheers,
Roland

[tea for two]

Cheaper hand held became where the action was is ofcourse. Nagra had the Lino, Mezzo, Pico, SD. Pink Noise from time to time have 1 or 2 in stock.
Also ofcourse the under £1K recorders with 3 or more mics took off with their relative quality.
It's tough for boutiques as it were to stay afloat unless they farm their brand out to cheaper models.
It's not as if they are as Leica a status symbol fashion accessory. So funny carrying a Nagra Sonosax Zaxcom as a fashion accessory bling bling.

[Arpangel]

I've still not seen a Zaxcom Deva in the flesh. Aaton has sadly gone, of course, and Nagra seems to have moved to hifi, so all is not so rosy in the field recorder world. It would be interesting to hear some comparisons of the current top-end recorders, such as the Sonosax SX-R4+ and the SD 8 series/Scorpio: I'm not entirely certain that the latter offer any tangible improvement in preamp/ADC quality over the 7 series, but happy to be proved wrong. At the current rate, I may even buy a (by then) old one in 10 years' time!
Cheers,
Roland

I'd like to be able to demonstrate the sound of a Deva to you, or "lack of a sound"
I'll try and find some recordings, but I have to go through loads of stuff, which I’m not even sure I have anymore.
We were asked to record a live performance that David Byrne put on called "Playing The Round House" at the Round House in Chalk Farm London.
We recorded it in Surround using a Sound Devices and a Zaxcom, my friend wanted to compare the two, just for fun. The surround was mixed back at base compiling recordings.
We used Sennheiser MKH mic's, and my friend’s home made preamps.
It was tremendous fun, I'll try and dig out those recordings.

[Roland Harris]

We were asked to record a live performance that David Byrne put on called "Playing The Round House" at the Round House in Chalk Farm London.
We recorded it in Surround using a Sound Devices and a Zaxcom, my friend wanted to compare the two, just for fun. The surround was mixed back at base compiling recordings.
We used Sennheiser MKH mic's, and my friend’s home made preamps.
It was tremendous fun, I'll try and dig out those recordings.

It does indeed sound good fun!
Cheers,
Roland

[Arpangel]

We were asked to record a live performance that David Byrne put on called "Playing The Round House" at the Round House in Chalk Farm London.
We recorded it in Surround using a Sound Devices and a Zaxcom, my friend wanted to compare the two, just for fun. The surround was mixed back at base compiling recordings.
We used Sennheiser MKH mic's, and my friend’s home made preamps.
It was tremendous fun, I'll try and dig out those recordings.

It does indeed sound good fun!
Cheers,
Roland

I get the feeling that these files are buried deep in my "various" or "miscellaneous" folders, oh dear!

[Liquid23Noiseician]

I'm looking to replace my dead ZOOM H6 with a new recorder. Right now it is a choice between a ZOOM H8 and Tascam DR-70D. I would be using it for field and video work. I would appreciate any suggestions on these recorders or any other recorder you think might be a better choice.

Thank you for any help.

[Mike Stranks]

I'm looking to replace my dead ZOOM H6 with a new recorder. Right now it is a choice between a ZOOM H8 and Tascam DR-70D. I would be using it for field and video work. I would appreciate any suggestions on these recorders or any other recorder you think might be a better choice.

Thank you for any help.

Welcome!

Do you have a budget?

[Liquid23Noiseician]

As for a budget. I would say no more than $600 to $700.

[Mike Stranks]

I don't know what your priorities are so I'm making some 'wide' suggestions...

Hugh liked the H8 in his review (a lot!): https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/zoom-h8

but I've always thought them somewhat cumbersome for field work...

Also don't know how many mic inputs you need... so... my shortlist at your price-point, would probably be:

Zoom F3 or F6
Sony PCM-D10
One of the Tascam Portacaptures

I'd find the 32-bit float facilities of the Zooms very attractive for field work... and would probably opt for the F6 at your budget...

Hope that helps...

[Roland Harris]

And when you say 'for video work', do you mean for bag work (i.e. separate person recording sound) or under camera (solo)? Form comes into play in either use, and the DR-70D is arguably better designed than the H8 for both, and certainly so for bag work. But with your budget, you could get a used MixPre-3, which I suggest would be a much better move for either.

[Mike Stranks]

From Hugh's review of the F6:

Given the unit’s design and features, it would be reasonable to assume the F6 is designed primarily with video cameras and DSLR users in mind, its compact proportions making it ideal for fixing between a tripod and camera baseplate, or onto the base of a DSLR (and it comes with a suitable mounting plate for precisely that application). However, the F6 can be employed equally well in a ‘gadget bag’ for traditional location sound‑recordist applications, or on a desktop for podcast panel recordings. Its compact size also makes it ideal for hiding ‘on set’ for local recording, or even for placing in a waterproof bag for remote unattended field recording! This is a very versatile little product.

I wish I hadn't started looking at these now... (Wallet; twitch; 'what could I sell?')

[Hugh Robjohns]

The F6 (and F3) are great little recorders. They don't have all the features (or controls) of the larger models, but for a switch-on-and-don't-worry-about-it recorder, taking up no space at all, they're absolutely brilliant. Just don't forget to budget for a decent external rechargable battery system!