Mac Studio upgrade - time for a new hard-drive for Logic projects and samples/VI data?

[sandy555]

Just about to get a Mac Studio M2 Max spec’d to 1tb internal drive and 64gb memory to replace a Macpro Trashcan from 2013.
Just wondered if anybody could advise-
I currently have x2 external hard drives that currently deal (in terms of audio/music) with most of my logic project storage and VI data/samples for the old machine.
One is 500gb ssd lacie rugged connected via thunderbolt 2 (that does most of this work) and a 2nd hdd LaCie d2 4tb connected via thunderbolt2 also (that’s also does some backup).
Is it worth investing now in a new ie Thunderbolt 4 drive and just use these older drives now as ie backups?
I'd need a 1tb + drive to be effective size wise.
Both current drives seem ok to me but wonder if there’s value in newer (I assume even faster drive tech with the new computer?
I hear a bit about these super fast nvme drives but confess I don’t know anything about this tech. I assume these external caddies and connect via Thunderbolt 4 ultimately?
Also, I’m wondering still how best to connect these older drives to the new computer in terms of best operation/speed limits and considering the number of ports available on the Mac Studio.
I should have x3 Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back of the computer free and the x2 USB/C ports on the front free given my plan to use x1 Thunderbolt 4 for the UAD Apollo via a Thunderbolt 2 - USB/C adaptor.
Although i guess i will also need to allocate x2 ports to support connecting/adapting some existing HDMI monitors (x3 in total) too I assume by the Apple Multiport adaptor.
Thanks in advance for any help/thoughts....

[ConcertinaChap]

I'm unclear, are your two existing drives hard drives or SSD's. If the former then replace them with SSDs, the performance gap is huge. If the latter I'd say try the drives out and see if they give you the performance you want. I rather suspect they will.

CC

[sandy555]

Hi, thanks for the reply.
The 500GB Lacie rugged is SSD and the 4TB Lacie D2 is a spinny hard drive both Thunderbolt 2.
They both seem ok to me speed and operationally on the MacPro but i just wondered about benefits with latest drives given they are both 8 year old tech now.
In truth there is a bit more too it as (without being pessimistic) I can forsee an initial period of difficulty as I have older sync devices and peripherals that i know are not going to work with the new machine/OS etc.
Kinda wondering now about having a period where i can switch between both machines (which is going to be interesting to find a solution with x3 HDMI monitors) and therein getting a dedicated hard drive for the new machine to make it easier to still be able to use the old machine for a bit at least.....
Regards

[ConcertinaChap]

I don't think the issue is TB2 vs TB4 because although the latter is faster than the former, TB2 is still a lot faster than the fastest SSD. There is no issue with TB2 kit (or TB1 kit, come to that) working with TB4 via the Apple adapter. New SSDs can be significantly faster than older ones, I understand, especially if based on the NVMe interface but my old external drives which aren't are still giving more than adequate performance, so why change?

When I upgraded to the Mac Studio I kept the old machine, it's now set up elsewhere in the house where it comes in generally useful for running things like the scanner which won't work with the new box, plus my wife uses it when it's too wet to get to her garden office. Plus I take comfort from knowing it's there , very reassuring after the upgrade.

CC

[sandy555]

Thanks again for your thoughts and help.
I've gotta pre-empt what is going to happen when moving to the new machine and like you, i know that my scanner isn't going to work with the new machine in addition and likely challenges with my old iPad and iPhone (both that i rely on for my income) given the OS requirements for sync etc.
Also, it will be useful to have old machine active whilst transferring (maybe removing software licenses etc) as im intending to install everything music related from absolute scratch manually.
Frankly i think it will be a while before I can completely move over to the new machine (replacing all peripherals) and really just want to use it for Logic/music making more or less.
Also kinda need the old machine with the screens/audio workstation in its position.
Just absolutely love 3 screens with Logic/Loopcloud and it works well for me.
So even thinking now of a big x3 way HDMI switcher unit ive found on amazon (around £100 and will require a fair amount of interconnecting leads) or maybe just a switcher for one screen as i could manage with just one for the old machines application.
Maybe submit to a new hard drive for the new machine to avoid re-plugging for a while given my iTunes music library is on one of the externals i mentioned before.
So many considerations!!!
Cheers again

[sonics]

SATA SSDs are really old, slow tech now. Do consider choosing faster external storage. I run a PC, but the difference changing over from SATA to NVMe was huge.

[sandy555]

Cheers for this also.
Basically now decided for simplicity im going to re-work the space to negate any need for monitor switchers and keep 2 completely separate set-ups until i can phase the old machine out over time and possibly reallocate the 2 hard drives i mentioned at the start down the line.
Try and get a second hand temporary HDMI monitor for old machine.
Therein, im defiantely looking to get a new external drive for logic projects, samples, VI data for the new Mac.
I'm not familiar with NVME tech so any suggestions welcomed although I appreciate already theres a lot of NVME drives and external enclosure products/manufacturers out there....!
I'm guessing a Thunderbolt 4 enclosure would be sensible to pair with an NVME drive with the Mac Studio M2 Max to get 'best' performance?
Minimum 2TB id say for my application.
I'm not sure what cost to anticipate even for a drive and enclosure/housing?
I'd obviously like to avoid any wrong decisions or overspending.

Regards

[Cuckooland]

I'm not sure what cost to anticipate even for a drive and enclosure/housing?

I’m using an Acasis 40gbs NVME enclosure off Amazon which cost about £100.
A 2tb Western Digital Black NVME drive is about £130. Samsung Evo980 (which I’m using) are a bit more I think. These have been rock solid for me, first with an M1 MacBook Air and now an M1 Max Mac Studio. They are very fast.
Maybe worth hanging on for Black Friday deals.

[forumuser667905]

I'd echo the advice to go down the NVMe route..... I've currently got a couple of external MNVe enclosures hooked up to an M1 Mac Mini. These are the homes for my audio data and my sample library contents respectively. The data transfer speeds are c. 2000Mb/s.... not a match for Apple's internal storage but still pretty impressive and, equally, they were not as hard hitting on the pocket as more Apple storage would be.....

The enclosures I'm using are from Sabrent and use Thunderbolt 3 connectivity.... and I think I've got Crucial NMVe sticks in both of them..... I think they are the P3 Plus versions so not the latest or fastest tech Crucial produce but the enclosures themselves are probably the bottleneck so not much point in going for more recent (the P5 I think??) stuff that's also more expensive.... Prices have dropped over the last couple of years so it's all a bit more accessible than it was.....

I've been using them for over 12 months now and they have (touch wood) been pretty reliable so far. Sourced mine through Amazon.....

Hope this helps and good luck.....

John Walden

[Luke W]

SATA SSDs are really old, slow tech now. Do consider choosing faster external storage. I run a PC, but the difference changing over from SATA to NVMe was huge.

I agree, but to a point

I'm using a mixture of SATA SSD and NVMe storage at the studio. The drives I use for my DAW sessions are SATA, as any extra speed would be of no benefit for audio recording/playback. The sample libraries I use the most on my main machine are on an NVMe in an external enclosure, and my VEP PC is entirely NVMe as well -- it's well worth it for the decreased loading times. I do still have some libraries on SATA drives, but they're ones I use less frequently so it doesn't bother me.

Saying that, I did set it all up a couple of years back when the cost difference was more significant, so it might be different if I was doing it again today.

[sandy555]

Many thanks for the extra info and advise.
I was initially planning on getting a single external 2TB NVMe drive to deal both with my Logic Project data (some audio but mostly MIDI using VIs) and the VI data (ie Omnisphere and a few others but not massive data) with a view to either porting the old SATA i have over later or i guess another NVMe if required down the line.

Just to clarify - I'm assuming its probably a bit risky (and obviously massively costly) to get a large/r internal drive ie 4TB to just do and deal with everything (until perhaps more storage required down the line therefore more external) ?
Maybe not a good idea to get the signal internal drive working super hard even though its apparently the quickest?

Please excuse my ignorance re NVMe tech and taking some example products suggested for a specific/recommended drive and enclosure for my potential purpose.
Unless I'm misreading it, on Amazon (UK) the 2TB Samsung EVO980 drive appears to have a version with or without the heat sink added (which makes it physically bigger obviously).
Therein i dont know if that makes a difference on the enclosure required to fit etc.
Also, for an Acasis 40gbs enclosure there are a couple of products one at £119.99 that has a built in fan and another at £104.45 that doesn't have a fan.
I dont know if you need an enclosure with a fan and a drive with a heat sink (or both)?
I cant imagine the fan is that noisey but i dont know not having heard one?
I was going to put up the specific product links from amazon but they are pretty long....is that ok to do?

[sandy555]

Upon further investigation i believe the NVMe drives with the heat sinks attached are designed for internal fitting for ie PCs and wouldn't fit in external enclosures...
Appreciating there are many many products I'm thinking a Samsung EVO980 but am unsure which 40gbs enclosure to get...
Not sure if one ie Acasis with a fan is required/sensible or not?

Regards

[Cuckooland]

I have the one with the fan, but it can be turned off (it isn’t silent, but fairly quiet). I have it turned off because I record in the same room, but I’ve never had any overheating problems. I suppose if the drive was being made to work hard then the fan might be needed - they do get hot, but I find the heat sinks on the enclosure are adequate. And yes, don’t get the one with the heat sink if you’re sticking it in an enclosure.

[sandy555]

Thanks for this further reply and info/help from all!

[BigRedX]

Just to clarify - I'm assuming its probably a bit risky (and obviously massively costly) to get a large/r internal drive ie 4TB to just do and deal with everything (until perhaps more storage required down the line therefore more external) ?
Maybe not a good idea to get the signal internal drive working super hard even though its apparently the quickest?

For me the reason not to have a large internal drive on a Mac is both cost and convenience.

For the last 20 years my non-portable Macs have only had the OS and programs on the main internal drive. All my data lives on separate drives to this.

Firstly it means I only need a 512GB system drive which comfortably fits the OS and all my programs with over 150GB free.

Secondly should something go wrong with my main Mac I can simply plug my data drives into my laptop and carry on working, and if the problem proves to be terminal I can be back up and running in the time it takes to do a Time Machine restore of the apps onto a new Mac.

[sandy555]

Thanks for the thoughts on that aspect too - was just a thought/consideration.
Gonna stick with running project and VI data on external devices.

Regards

[ConcertinaChap]

For me the reason not to have a large internal drive on a Mac is both cost and convenience.

I can see that. I've gone the other direction, giving my Mac Studio a 4TB SSD. This is mostly due to being a big Dropbox user. Much of my work I do in the Dropbox area - I have a paid-for account giving me 2TB of space on their servers. Thus my work is backed up safely and having it on the main drive just seems to simplify a lot of actions. My recordings I don't do directly into Dropbox but at the end of a session I copy them over.

It works well for me but I do accept this is an expensive way of doing things.

CC

[MeJ]

In support of your quest I can only tell you what I did. I have a refurb M1 Max 64g/1TB from the usual suspects (this is now a hobby not an income stream!). In my (cough, lengthy) experience it's not possible to have too much RAM. I would have liked a bigger SSD - especially as it is not easily possible to swap a failed M1/2/3 SSD, and the OS is on it when it dies, so my aim was to minimise writes to the internal SSD. But the cost for a bigger drive was tremendous and ridiculous - not an issue in a commercial context of course.

So I purchased a "40Gbps NVMe Enclosure, M.2 Enclosure PCIe NVMe to USB C SSD" and put in a 4TB good-value well-reviewed fastish nVME drive. I use half of this as Time Machine backup (I make other backups as well of course) and half as VI sample store for my many many sample libraries. Working directory for project archive is on a NAS. My working project I keep on the desktop. The external drive is much slower than the internal drive, I get just under 1G byte/sec (max seq.) with the disk now 25% full (it was double that when empty), which is still plenty fast in practice. I have stuck the alloy case to the Mac Studio case using a bit of heatsink compound to keep it cool (I won't have any computer in my studio room, it's in an adjacent corridor, so looks are not an issue, and it's just me anyway). YMMV but works for me... (I also use another TB4 device to provide enough USB and video ports to actually work, graah!)

I haven't given names for the parts I used as I am not recommending them or advertising, but a quick look round will identify many options.

Cheers.

[sandy555]

Hi, thanks for the further info that helps.
Waiting on the M2 Studio Max now having gone for a 1TB internal 64gig memory spec.
Still looking at which external NVMe to get - likely will be 2TB in terms of size.
Probably Samsung 980 Pro with the Acasis enclosure with the fan as discussed before simply based on earlier suggestions and having been recommended also by a supplier. Maybe push to 4TB Samsung 990 Pro but unsure if ill see any tangible difference to the 980 beyond the storage size of course?
Appreciate many many other similar products probably just as adequate.

Still not 100% sure what to do re my monitors situation for the new machine.
I've x3 HDMI monitors that work fine on my old Mac Pro set-up and want to use these.
Gonna obviously connect one to HDMI port directly on new machine.
At present planning on getting x2 HDMI/USBC adaptors with a view to (hopefully) being able to use the x2 USB/C ports on the front of the machine for these monitors....!?!
As best as i can tell these ports should work (as id prefer to use the Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back for other connectivity).
There are cheap HDMI-USB/C adaptors on ie Amazon - not sure beyond build quality if its 'better' to get more expensive such adaptors?

Completely ditched the idea of any monitor switching for simplicity sake.

Cheers again to all for the help with all this

[sandy555]

Thanks again for all the help going back.
Ended up with (it appears) a positive end result.
Mac Studio M2 is great and went with a OMC Express 1M2 nvme drive preloaded with their 4TB drive in - certainly not the cheapest but appears to be absolutely brilliant. Drive remains cool and solid so far.
Also got an OMC Thunderbolt 4 hub as the 2 HDMI screens didn't work from the front ports but were fine on the back Thunderbolt 4 ports (and/or via the hub).
Repurposed old drives for Time Machine and backup purposes fine.

Cheers again,