SoS forum stalwart reference material for mixing and mastering

[cashhewn]

I don’t think this thread has been done but apologies if so…

I have come to recognize the importance of referencing or “A/B ing” known, high quality mixes frequently with our own work as we build towards a good mix or master. It helps keep us on track in so many ways.

That said, would any of our regulars here be kind enough to share their “go to” reference track(s)?

And maybe explain why they use that one specifically in an instance?

[yeroc]

To actually try and be helpful- This is so widely subjective and varies from genre to genre.

Even in top 40 pop, there’s a wide range of what’s acceptable for say reference level for kick and bass.

Even in one track I might say is helpful for low end reference that I like, I wouldn’t reference it for good vocal production.

I might like a track’s vocal production, but the whole mix may be too saturated and crushed to hell and back.

What genre are you working in?

You can pay the trivial subscription fee to Mike Senior’s patreon to see a very comprehensive and somewhat recent compilation he did for reference tracks, spanning across many genres and applications- I think that’s your best place to start

[Drew Stephenson]

I wouldn't describe myself as a stalwart (unless we're measuring forum contributions by personal mass) but I'm with yeroc in that my references will very much depend on the song in question.
That being said, there are a few tracks that I will frequently turn to:
- The National - I'll Still Destroy You. There's a lot of low end and low mids going on that manage not to overwhelm the track.
- Labrinth - Let It Be (thanks to Mike Senior for that tip). Masterclass in ear candy.
- Childish Gambino - This is America. I find this is a good test for your monitoring as it's very easy for the top end of the vocal sibilance to bleed into the cymbals.
- Josh Ritter - Good Man. Seems like a simple song on first listen but has a lot going on, closest to my general production style.

The new Zach Bryan album, Great American Bar Scene, has some interesting
production as well, so I've added Oak Island and Pink Skies to my list recently.

[cashhewn]

Thanks yeroc and Drew Stephenson for the thoughtful responses and examples.

I realize that it can seem a big subjective question: I suppose I was thinking that Hugh and folks of his experience level probably had developed a standby folder on their desktop of old chestnuts at the ready for A/Bing.

You ever find that if you type long enough you usually answer your own question and delete the post? Probably should have done that here with this thread…

What I was fishing for in the OP were references for generally “classic good mixes”: efficient kick drum and bass (acoustic or electronic/synth), a snare that really cuts (acoustic or synth), a good stereo separation of elements and arrangement, a vocal level and treatment that’s just right.

Drew, thanks for those specific references!

I’m in perhaps a minority position of only working on my own music, and I don’t really follow a genre, but love all things early 1970s especially.

I’ll often listen to Loving Cup off of Exile on Main St. for an example of a really cracking snare (and how about those toms) and lean and clear bass guitar, and for a great rhythm acoustic guitar treatment and cutting rock and roll acoustic piano sound. I’ll also often listen to The Space Between off of Avalon for a good lean and efficient bass guitar and drum kit working together, as well as the panning and treatment of those synths and Manzanera electric guitars. It all works together really well.

I realize that the above references aren’t so extreme, again I would describe the low end as “efficient” and the snares as “cutting”, but if I can match those, then I at least know I’m in a respectable ballpark and could then give my kick a little more oomph or whatever.

It’s tricky though because when I’m A/Bing and referencing, I’m almost always comparing my unmastered mix with a mastered track, or I’ll put on a limiter and guess at the gain reduction and LUFS target and try to match the volume levels. Any advice on that?

Thanks for those responses.

Oh and I forgot to add that I didn’t even know Mike Senior had a Patreon, thanks for that!

[yeroc]

For easiest referencing on the fly, try ADPTR AUDIO’s Metric AB or Mastering the Mix’s Reference. Both can regularly be had for a reasonable coupon price. I’ve used Reference regularly for years, no complaints on my end.

I’d advise you to find the most contemporary examples that are similar to older tracks you like genre wise… so much has changed over the years given loudness, low end, music technology, etc. But as long as you understand that, do whatever you like for your art. Be confident in that choice from a stylistic and aesthetic point of view. One of my favorite records recently sounds like a cassette from the 80’s recorded through an auxiliary cord. I like that choice but it’s certainly not a competitive mainstream music choice !

Definitely check out Mike Senior’s exhaustive list, it has the closest thing to what you want- songs that are good/bad examples of de essing, songs that are universal low end references, etc

[cashhewn]

yeroc- many thanks again! Great advice and thanks for the Mike Senior heads up: I haven’t even begun my de-essing journey …

[BWC]

It’s tricky though because when I’m A/Bing and referencing, I’m almost always comparing my unmastered mix with a mastered track, or I’ll put on a limiter and guess at the gain reduction and LUFS target and try to match the volume levels. Any advice on that?

Go the other way 'round, turn down the mastered track to subjectively match your mix.

[Arpangel]

Just an observation, but I have noticed on a lot of commercially released material, stuff that's been "cared about" it doesn’t matter about the genre, I’m into abstract experimental music, right through to mainstream pop and Jazz, the thing I notice most is almost a lack of bass as we'd expect it, the bottom end, and low mid's are very well controlled, and it tends to make things sound very clear and clean. The bass is there, but not out of control, or muddy, is this down to good control room acoustics? A lot of home studios are sometimes way less than perfect, a good argument for getting this aspect of your studio sorted.

[cashhewn]

@BWC - turning down the reference is certainly the simplest solution, but when I do that and get the VU levels just about matching then I notice that my unmastered track will intermittently make the clip light on my console master bus blink and the mastered track (since it’s limited) will not…so then I think for apples to apples comparisons I need to slap a temporary limiter across my mix. But I’m still new at this…

@arpangel - right, I often feel surprised in the same way: these “fussed over” things I choose to reference often have in common that incredibly clear and lean low end thing going on, yet still seem to have a defined bass and kick thump happening all the way down to 20Hz, yet no muddiness from top to bottom of the track

[Arpangel]

@arpangel - right, I often feel surprised in the same way: these “fussed over” things I choose to reference often have in common that incredibly clear and lean low end thing going on, yet still seem to have a defined bass and kick thump happening all the way down to 20Hz, yet no muddiness from top to bottom of the track

Back in the day, there was a cheap mixer made by a company called MM.
OK, it had fantastic EQ, just a four band fixed.
But, if you boosted the bass, and cut the lower mid, it gave you "that sound" lovely deep clear rumbly bass, with a clean area surrounding it.
The frequencies on this mixer were spot on.
I'm not sure how it worked, but it was a great example of how to get very near this type of sound, it was very, very useful.
When I listen to recordings that I did with it today, you can tell a mile off that I used that mixer.
Be good to replicate it with a current EQ, but I wouldn’t know where to start.

[James Perrett]

I'm not sure how it worked, but it was a great example of how to get very near this type of sound, it was very, very useful.

The MM mixer eq design was based on gyrators - there's an explanation at

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ve ... ound-vse-2

And when it comes to matching levels - just turn everything down until nothing clips. For clean bass it is often best to remove the bottom end from non-bass instruments so that the only bass that remains is bass that is intended to be there. Don't go eq'ing instruments to sound good on their own - you need to eq them so that they fit in with the whole arrangement.

[Arpangel]

I'm not sure how it worked, but it was a great example of how to get very near this type of sound, it was very, very useful.

The MM mixer eq design was based on gyrators - there's an explanation at

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ve ... ound-vse-2

And when it comes to matching levels - just turn everything down until nothing clips. For clean bass it is often best to remove the bottom end from non-bass instruments so that the only bass that remains is bass that is intended to be there. Don't go eq'ing instruments to sound good on their own - you need to eq them so that they fit in with the whole arrangement.

James is spot on as usual, about cutting bass on things that don’t need it.
And, listening to things in the context of the big picture, not just one square millimetre of it.
Thank's for that link James, I can hear my wallet groaning.

[BWC]

@BWC - turning down the reference is certainly the simplest solution, but when I do that and get the VU levels just about matching then I notice that my unmastered track will intermittently make the clip light on my console master bus blink and the mastered track (since it’s limited) will not…so then I think for apples to apples comparisons I need to slap a temporary limiter across my mix. But I’m still new at this…

Why would turning down your reference cause your mix to clip? You must still be turning something up. Don't. Your mix should have plenty of headroom at the master bus, so if you turn down the reference to match, then it too should have plenty of HR at the MB.

Here's a good show that frequently talks about this sort of thing:
https://themasteringshow.com/