Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Arrangement, instrumentation, lyric writing, music theory, inspiration… it’s all here.
Forum rules
Arrangement, instrumentation, lyric writing, music theory, inspiration… it’s all here.
Post Reply

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by OneWorld »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 2:36 pm by Drew Stephenson » Sat Aug 31, 2024 1:36 pm


BigRedX wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 5:01 pm
OneWorld wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 9:28 amIn an interview, Sir Pail Mac said cheap recording was possibly the curse of song writing, he said "I must have a 1000 unfinished songs scattered about the firmanent. Back in the day of recording studios, you prepared a song, had an idea, went in the studio, boxed it off and that was that, the song got finished because the meter was running"

I try an keep the composing part as separate as possible from any recording that will be made available to the public. .........

Well you can't record it before you've written it, can you?
OneWorld
Longtime Poster
Posts: 5955 Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Albatross »

OneWorld wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:38 pm Well you can't record it before you've written it, can you?

Pretty much everything we ever recorded was written while it was being played for the first time.
User avatar
Albatross
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3140 Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am Location: Airstrip 1, Eurasia

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by BigRedX »

OneWorld wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:38 pmWell you can't record it before you've written it, can you?

True, but most of the time IMO you shouldn't be recording it while you are still writing it. By all means make some final tweaks in the studio when you can hear everything properly but I think you should have at least 90% of the song sorted before you hit "record".
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

OneWorld wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:38 pm Well you can't record it before you've written it, can you?

I think you certainly can when it comes to supporting parts and I can also think of plenty times when I've had the tape rolling whilst I came up with things - but I get that's not entirely what you're meaning here.
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Arpangel »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 5:32 pm Funnily enough, there's a post coming on the separation between creation and engineering...

These are very separate for me, but at the same time, not separated at all.
Because, if I were more financially successful as a musician, I'd automatically employ an engineer and tech, as I hate doing these things.
But, the engineering side sometimes suggests creatively fruitful paths, and it’s very difficult communicating to an engineer how to manipulate certain equipment how you would like, so, in that respect, I may as well continue as I am, even though it’s not ideal.
Exceptions to this dilemma, are musicians who have a great rapport with certain engineers, who understand their music and what they want, but the rewards have to be there for both parties.
User avatar
Arpangel
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21920 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" Gandalf - J.R.R. Tolkien.

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by BigRedX »

I think the line between composing and recording has become a lot more blurred now that most people are doing everything in their DAW. When it's all laid out in the same way on the arrange page there's little difference between a MIDI part being played by a plug-in instrument and a recorded audio track.

Even though they ought to be seen in the same way, I think there is a conceptual difference between a part produced using a hardware sequencer and sound sources (or drum machine) and the same thing on a track in a DAW. There is a tendency to treat the first as a musician who always plays their part correctly and has the sounds already sorted, while the second is a "recording" because it's there on the arrange page along with the audio files of actual recordings.

I think because I've been doing recording myself since my very first band in 1975 and have been working with drum machines and sequenced parts since 1981 when we got a Dr Rhythm and discovered that we could play perfectly synchronised notes on our synths from the clock and trigger outputs, I can still separate the composing and recording processes quite easily. Even now when I am working at home with my DAW, I won't start a new Logic project for a song until I have most of the main musical themes worked out from playing them on bass or synth.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

BigRedX wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:14 am Even though they ought to be seen in the same way, I think there is a conceptual difference between a part produced using a hardware sequencer and sound sources (or drum machine) and the same thing on a track in a DAW. There is a tendency to treat the first as a musician who always plays their part correctly and has the sounds already sorted, while the second is a "recording" because it's there on the arrange page along with the audio files of actual recordings.

I may quote you on this when I get to that section if that's ok please?
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by BigRedX »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:12 amI may quote you on this when I get to that section if that's ok please?

You may!
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Arpangel »

BigRedX wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:14 am I think the line between composing and recording has become a lot more blurred now that most people are doing everything in their DAW. When it's all laid out in the same way on the arrange page there's little difference between a MIDI part being played by a plug-in instrument and a recorded audio track.

Even though they ought to be seen in the same way, I think there is a conceptual difference between a part produced using a hardware sequencer and sound sources (or drum machine) and the same thing on a track in a DAW. There is a tendency to treat the first as a musician who always plays their part correctly and has the sounds already sorted, while the second is a "recording" because it's there on the arrange page along with the audio files of actual recordings.

I think because I've been doing recording myself since my very first band in 1975 and have been working with drum machines and sequenced parts since 1981 when we got a Dr Rhythm and discovered that we could play perfectly synchronised notes on our synths from the clock and trigger outputs, I can still separate the composing and recording processes quite easily. Even now when I am working at home with my DAW, I won't start a new Logic project for a song until I have most of the main musical themes worked out from playing them on bass or synth.

A lot of people that use DAW's don’t have a control surface, me included, and not having one can make you work in a particular way, I tend to lay down stereo tracks, one at a time, and mix using the mouse one track at a time, making small adjustments.
It’s not the way I'd do things if I had a control surface, I'd do it in a much more traditional way, the whole mix.
Sometimes I record a stereo mix from my hardware mixer, riding faders that control multiple sources from my instruments, a live mix.
Computers have completely changed my music, and opened up new avenues, but, alongside old ones, nothing has supplanted anything.
User avatar
Arpangel
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21920 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" Gandalf - J.R.R. Tolkien.

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by MarkyC »

OK Drew, I have taken you at your word and started implementing change, particularly Space and Permission.

Yesterday was a good day so I looked at the physical space I have. It was a mess with boxes, magazines, random bit of old gear all over. Took a deep breath, and cleared and declutters everything. Twelve black bags of rubbish latter I have a clear and clean space (So much more space!)

I have a desk I can write at and room to move – It’s a revelation and I can actually get to stuff I want to use.

I also found a music stand, and now with space to actually use it, I’m going to put down the song arrangements, learn them and then actually paly and record them.

This may sound straight forward but in the past I have just focused on the DAW screen, do countless takes of individual pieces and then paste it all together. I think this may get better performances and a more cohesive view of an overall song – let's see!
User avatar
MarkyC
Regular
Posts: 206 Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:00 am Location: London

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

MarkyC wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:56 am OK Drew, I have taken you at your word and started implementing change, particularly Space and Permission.

Yesterday was a good day so I looked at the physical space I have. It was a mess with boxes, magazines, random bit of old gear all over. Took a deep breath, and cleared and declutters everything. Twelve black bags of rubbish latter I have a clear and clean space (So much more space!)

I have a desk I can write at and room to move – It’s a revelation and I can actually get to stuff I want to use.

I also found a music stand, and now with space to actually use it, I’m going to put down the song arrangements, learn them and then actually paly and record them.

This may sound straight forward but in the past I have just focused on the DAW screen, do countless takes of individual pieces and then paste it all together. I think this may get better performances and a more cohesive view of an overall song – let's see!

Great work!
Now the pressure is on me to make sure the rest of the series delivers! :D
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by BigRedX »

Arpangel wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:12 am A lot of people that use DAW's don’t have a control surface, me included, and not having one can make you work in a particular way, I tend to lay down stereo tracks, one at a time, and mix using the mouse one track at a time, making small adjustments.
It’s not the way I'd do things if I had a control surface, I'd do it in a much more traditional way, the whole mix.
Sometimes I record a stereo mix from my hardware mixer, riding faders that control multiple sources from my instruments, a live mix.
Computers have completely changed my music, and opened up new avenues, but, alongside old ones, nothing has supplanted anything.

I don't have a control surface either, and I don't think it holds me back. Besides I only have two hands so that means I can only manipulate two things at any one time as opposed to one with a mouse. Automation and being able to only change one thing at a time have made me consider what I do in a mix with a lot more thought and IMO ultimately results in a better mix.
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Well, it's Wednesday again already, which means it's time for...

Part 4 - more Spark and Spice

Obviously not every song is a love song, but the same principles we discussed last time apply.

Take the spark and add narrative spice.

In A Prologue, I have a song that features a killer on a journey to dispose of a dead body in the back seat of his car. Ok, that's an idea, but I like to think it becomes interesting by adding the spice that the killer has no memory of how this morbid situation came to pass.

An easy way of finding a bit of spice to add to a song is to grab that folder of notes, or stack of videos and grab a couple of examples at random. Maybe one idea is a riff on train travel and the other idea is about gardening. Great, how could you combine them into something that fires the imagination? What about looking out of a train window and seeing how a garden changes over the seasons? Ok, that gives us a nice time-passing idea. What else is in the folder? Perhaps it's a rant about quitting work. Fine, that gives us the impetus for change. Is it a song about freedom? Is it a song about losing a job? Is it a song about secretly having a crush on your a-hole of a boss? They're all options to add a bit of spice.

There is another very powerful and not exactly uncommon, but certainly a bit rarer, method to add some spice to a song.

Make it not make sense.

As human beings we're all natural storytellers and we also excel at pattern recognition. Which means if you paint the outlines of picture we'll happily fill in the gaps with our own interpretations.

Many of my favourite songs take this approach, I mean, Peter Gabriel's Solsbury Hill is one of my 'all-time-great' songs, but I haven't got a clue what it's about. "Eagle flew out of the night." Well, eagles aren't night flyers and how would you accurately identify it in the dark? Just for starters...

Whiter Shade of Pale by Procol Harum falls into this category for me as well.

Similarly have a read of the lyrics to almost anything from Bon Iver's album 22 A million and see if you can find any literal sense there. 8 Circle takes me on an emotional journey every time but the sentences don't even make sense in themselves.

Get this right and you're bypassing the whole frontal lobe and going straight for the emotional triggers in the limbic system. Hugely powerful.

But it is very difficult to do. I've sort of attempted it a couple of times with mixed success. I find it a bit too easy to get pulled into a more narrative approach. The closest I've come might appear to be a song called Cirencester, but there's actually a logical story behind it even if it's not clear to the listener.

So it's on my to do list. And I definitely recommend it as an exercise. Give it a try, see what you come up with.

This has been very lyric focused so far, but in a way it still applies to instrumental music too. For me instrumental pieces work best when they too tell a story, and when they're joined by a bit of spark as well. An unexpected instrument, a counter melody that takes things in a different direction, a bit of poly-rhythm perhaps.

We'll come back to this idea later but in terms of how we can use these ideas in conventional songs.

Right. That's been a lot of writing, we'll be a bit more creative in the next posts but really when you're talking about words, then words are the things to use.

So your homework is to go have a listen to all the referenced songs, even if you know them pretty well already, and cast your ear over them with that spark and spice analysis.

Next time we'll be looking at song construction, story arcs, tension and release and generally all manner of things that will take us beyond verse and chorus.

But before we leave the concept of spark and spice let me leave you with an analogy from the world of photography.

Let's say you've been lucky enough to find yourself down at the beach around sundown. The crowds have gone home, the sky is lighting up in beautiful pinks and reds, the tide is far enough out to give you a decent stretch of beach and there's enough wind to form some small waves.

You fish out your phone and take a photo. You know you won't capture the real colours on show but even so, there's something a bit flat and uninspiring about the picture.

You've got your spark - the coast at sunset - but there's no spice.

A bit further along the beach there's a set of groynes heading out into the sea, and on one of them is sat a chap doing some sea-fishing.

You fish out your phone again and this time the photo comes alive. You have all the natural beauty of the first shot but now there's a focal point of interest for the observer to build their own narrative.

Obviously if you just point your phone at the dude fishing you might not get a great shot, there's a lot more to photography than that, but that's where we extend our analogy into composition - for music and photography - and we'll come back to that later.

Until then, please comment below if you've got any questions or disagree with anything I've said. And hit follow if you've found it interesting.

As usual you can find the rest of the set here: https://roughtorelease.blogspot.com/202 ... spice.html
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Arpangel »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:24 pm
Obviously not every song is a love song, but the same principles we discussed last time apply.

Take the spark and add narrative spice.


That’s it.
User avatar
Arpangel
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21920 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" Gandalf - J.R.R. Tolkien.

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by OneWorld »

Finishing a song?.......I have a enough trouble starting one!
OneWorld
Longtime Poster
Posts: 5955 Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by RichardT »

There’s another factor that I always have to face up to - I call it the slog.

There’s a phase near the end of producing a track where every time I fix a problem it reveals another one, and this process can go on for a long time.

There’s no way round it - I just have to go through it.
RichardT
Longtime Poster
Posts: 6030 Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am Location: UK

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Arpangel »

RichardT wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:36 pm There’s another factor that I always have to face up to - I call it the slog.

There’s a phase near the end of producing a track where every time I fix a problem it reveals another one, and this process can go on for a long time.

There’s no way round it - I just have to go through it.

Interesting stuff.
These "problems"? I’m wondering, if someone was standing along side you while you’re working, would they "definitely" hear these things as obvious problems and would "anyone" agree that they need "correcting"?
Or, are they things that are very personal to how you hear them? and would it make a major difference to the piece if you left them alone?
Also, you say that after you’ve fixed one problem, another one pops up, well, these new ones must have been there all the time, didn’t you notice all of them?
are you listening to the big picture? or just focusing in on small details?
Apart from obvious really bad technical issues, that need fixing, almost everything else is down to personal interpretation, I'm constantly surprised at how much I can get rid of in a mix, and how far I can change it without the whole mix loosing it's basic emotions, and sometimes, you can change just one small thing, and it ruins everything, destroys the whole vibe.
I must have spent days listening to this vocal track, just the vocal, changing it's pitch, I just couldn’t decide what was "right" then I thought, this is crazy just leave it as it is. I thought, people are going to hate this, and think I'm mad, no, I forgot about it and just accepted it, and no one thought I was mad, in fact, it just sounds normal to me now, the intended vibe is fine.
I wont get caught up in all this agonising, it's bad, it destroys my creativity, and makes me obsessed about things that really don’t matter.
User avatar
Arpangel
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21920 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" Gandalf - J.R.R. Tolkien.

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Arpangel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:46 am
RichardT wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:36 pm There’s another factor that I always have to face up to - I call it the slog.

There’s a phase near the end of producing a track where every time I fix a problem it reveals another one, and this process can go on for a long time.

There’s no way round it - I just have to go through it.

Interesting stuff.
These "problems"? I’m wondering, if someone was standing along side you while you’re working, would they "definitely" hear these things as obvious problems and would "anyone" agree that they need "correcting"?

I can't answer for Richard, but I recognise the symptoms so...
In my case it depends who that person is. If I played the track to my wife, she probably wouldn't notice anything in particular being wrong. But if I asked if it sounded like a professional record, she would probably concur that it didn't.

Also, you say that after you’ve fixed one problem, another one pops up, well, these new ones must have been there all the time, didn’t you notice all of them?

Again in my case, sometimes shifting, removing, filtering something reveals something else that has been masked.

are you listening to the big picture? or just focusing in on small details?

I try to separate this out into two different phases, but I do find it hard not to get pulled into the detail.

Sometimes I console myself with the fact that I've been doing this as a hobby for 10 years and I'm comparing my work with something that's been produced by a professional who's been doing it for half their life. But that's generally cold comfort.
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by OneWorld »

RichardT wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:36 pm There’s another factor that I always have to face up to - I call it the slog.

There’s a phase near the end of producing a track where every time I fix a problem it reveals another one, and this process can go on for a long time.

There’s no way round it - I just have to go through it.


I suppose if we are the only ones around to offer a critique then there's a problem insomuch we are the hardest person to please, to quote Stevie Wonder when asked which was his best song and he replied "That'll be my next one"

No matter how good the good, we, the writers and recordists of the song know ever teeny weeny bit of the song that is unpolishable
OneWorld
Longtime Poster
Posts: 5955 Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Arpangel »

Drew Stephenson wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:05 am Sometimes I console myself with the fact that I've been doing this as a hobby for 10 years and I'm comparing my work with something that's been produced by a professional who's been doing it for half their life. But that's generally cold comfort.

I think of it like this, my music doesn’t sound like anyone else’s, from a technical, and a creative point of view, it's not "wrong" it's just "my music, and my sound" and so is yours I guess.
Of course, there are caveats, like if you’re interested in making music that you "want" to sound like an established genre, right down to the production details.
User avatar
Arpangel
Forum Aficionado
Posts: 21920 Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am
"I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" Gandalf - J.R.R. Tolkien.

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by Drew Stephenson »

Arpangel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:39 am I think of it like this, my music doesn’t sound like anyone else’s, from a technical, and a creative point of view, it's not "wrong" it's just "my music, and my sound" and so is yours I guess.
Of course, there are caveats, like if you’re interested in making music that you "want" to sound like an established genre, right down to the production details.

Yeah, I've probably made a rod for my own back by working in a genre that definitely has a sound, and one that is characterised by accurate representations of real instruments. :headbang:

But all of this is really around mixing and production, which I'll get to in a later instalment. ;)
User avatar
Drew Stephenson
Apprentice Guru
Posts: 29709 Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am Location: York
(The forumuser formerly known as Blinddrew)
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...
https://drewstephenson.bandcamp.com/

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by RichardT »

Arpangel wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:46 am
RichardT wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:36 pm There’s another factor that I always have to face up to - I call it the slog.

There’s a phase near the end of producing a track where every time I fix a problem it reveals another one, and this process can go on for a long time.

There’s no way round it - I just have to go through it.

Interesting stuff.
These "problems"? I’m wondering, if someone was standing along side you while you’re working, would they "definitely" hear these things as obvious problems and would "anyone" agree that they need "correcting"?
Or, are they things that are very personal to how you hear them? and would it make a major difference to the piece if you left them alone?
Also, you say that after you’ve fixed one problem, another one pops up, well, these new ones must have been there all the time, didn’t you notice all of them?
are you listening to the big picture? or just focusing in on small details?
Apart from obvious really bad technical issues, that need fixing, almost everything else is down to personal interpretation, I'm constantly surprised at how much I can get rid of in a mix, and how far I can change it without the whole mix loosing it's basic emotions, and sometimes, you can change just one small thing, and it ruins everything, destroys the whole vibe.
I must have spent days listening to this vocal track, just the vocal, changing it's pitch, I just couldn’t decide what was "right" then I thought, this is crazy just leave it as it is. I thought, people are going to hate this, and think I'm mad, no, I forgot about it and just accepted it, and no one thought I was mad, in fact, it just sounds normal to me now, the intended vibe is fine.
I wont get caught up in all this agonising, it's bad, it destroys my creativity, and makes me obsessed about things that really don’t matter.

Hi Arpy,

I normally start by looking at the big picture and seeing if things kind of work.

Things ‘jump out’ at me when I’m listening and those are the problems that need fixing. Then when they are fixed, they reveal other ones, which are less important I keep going until I reach a point of confusion - should I undo this change? Should I stick with it? Then I know it’s time to stop worrying and stop work.

You’re right, other people probably wouldn’t notice them!
RichardT
Longtime Poster
Posts: 6030 Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am Location: UK

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by BigRedX »

Are these songwriting problems, or arranging or recording/mixing problems?
User avatar
BigRedX
Frequent Poster
Posts: 3124 Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by SafeandSound Mastering »

It's a good topic Drew, I wrote a blog article on a very closely related topic.

"How to finish DAW tracks" as I noticed from other forums many people who are often not musicians that could play on stage end up with 16-32 bar loops and then never finish and keep ending up feeling unsatisified.

It's a good topic and rather odd I had posted a link on another unreleated topic just now and then this one pops up.

I am a believer in "whatever it takes" before I start a new piece of music, in oder to finish the existing.

Sometimes it is easy as pie and sometimes it is like a inner battle to get something finished. You can get somewhere in the middle with practice and being organized before starting and having a method takes some of the repetititive obstacles out of the way I find.
User avatar
SafeandSound Mastering
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1670 Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:00 am Location: South
Mastering: 1T £30.00 | 4T EP £112.00 | 10-12T Album £230.00 | Stem mastering £56.00 (up to 14 stems) masteringmastering.co.uk

Re: Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

Post by James Perrett »

BigRedX wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:38 pm Are these songwriting problems, or arranging or recording/mixing problems?

Yes, I really think that songwriting needs to be separated from all the rest of the process. A finished song is only one part of the process - and it could then go in any direction. There is nothing to say that the way the writer performs the song is actually the best way to do it. For instance, I much prefer Roddy Frame's version of Jump to Van Halen's and The Byrd's version of Mr Tambourine Man to Bob Dylan's.

It is also really interesting to hear early demos of well known songs. They can be far from perfect but they're recognisable enough for someone to take them and turn them into something better.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 16984 Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page
Post Reply