Songwriting - finishing your songs - a blog series

[Drew Stephenson]

That's definitely when you're finished with it, whether it is finished might be a different thing.

[Arpangel]

That's definitely when you're finished with it, whether it is finished might be a different thing.

When I listen to my past work, I'm listening to it as it is, not how it "could or might have been" and as more time passes, the more it is what it is, that attitude should be applied as soon as possible after conception.

[Drew Stephenson]

That's one reason why I release my tracks; doesn't matter if no-one listens to it, once it's out there it's done.

[OneWorld]

That's definitely when you're finished with it, whether it is finished might be a different thing.

What if you've deleted it? Or are we talking about erecting statues in memory of a song, or a memorial - the Tomb of the Unknown Ditty, is there life after death of a song

[Drew Stephenson]

Well, if you've deleted it I guess you've got two choices: wave it goodbye or start again from scratch and memory.
But I think you'd need a pretty compelling case as to why it would be different this time.

At the risk of cannibalising a future entry, this is one of the reasons I think it's important to finish a song. It allows you to make a sensible assessment of the song. I have a lot of songs that I've finished, left to settle for a bit, then revisited and decided that they're simply not good enough to spend any more time on. I don't think I could make that decision if it was still a part-formed thing.

[N i g e l]

I have a lot of songs that I've finished, left to settle for a bit....

for the solo artist with no peer review, thats essential, stick it "in a drawer" for a while and review it after a period of time, when your ears and mind have stepped back from the intensity of the
the recording process. A "cant see the forest for the trees" thing.

[Drew Stephenson]

Absolutely. A bit of distance is essential for perspective - when evaluating the bad and the good.

[Arpangel]

That's one reason why I release my tracks; doesn't matter if no-one listens to it, once it's out there it's done.

Absolutely, that’s a great way of getting them to "leave the nest"

Absolutely. A bit of distance is essential for perspective - when evaluating the bad and the good.

Distance?
I always listen from another room, or down the hall, as part of the "does it sound right process" if the emotions still come across, AFAIC it's fine.

[Drew Stephenson]

I meant distance in time, but it works for the other three dimensions as well.

[amanise]

Releasing a track doesn't need to be the end for it, especially if nobody listens to it. If you're careful with your lyrics you can always get three or for titles out of the same song. Without having to put (remix) in the title.

[BigRedX]

Releasing a track doesn't need to be the end for it, especially if nobody listens to it. If you're careful with your lyrics you can always get three or for titles out of the same song. Without having to put (remix) in the title.

Some of the songs I'm "writing" at the moment have their roots in ones I wrote back in the 80s, when they would have originally only been heard by people who saw the band(s) I was in back then at a gig. A few tweaks like new lyrics and adjusted vocal melody, changing the key, rearranging the order of some of the parts and trimming off the excess repetition and the "inspiration" is only really noticeable if you play them back to back.

[amanise]

Releasing a track doesn't need to be the end for it, especially if nobody listens to it. If you're careful with your lyrics you can always get three or for titles out of the same song. Without having to put (remix) in the title.

Some of the songs I'm "writing" at the moment have their roots in ones I wrote back in the 80s, when they would have originally only been heard by people who saw the band(s) I was in back then at a gig. A few tweaks like new lyrics and adjusted vocal melody, changing the key, rearranging the order of some of the parts and trimming off the excess repetition and the "inspiration" is only really noticeable if you play them back to back.

Nothing wrong with it. You invariably use new skills and upgraded gear to do it and bring something new to it - and nothing needs to be new if no-one listened the first time.

[Arpangel]

I meant distance in time, but it works for the other three dimensions as well.

Space and time, we could be heading for a continuum, all I need now is my cape, and it’s finally finished.

[ManFromGlass]

That's one reason why I release my tracks; doesn't matter if no-one listens to it, once it's out there it's done.

Years later I am discovering this is not always so!
(Talking about the done bit)

[N i g e l]

Distance?
I always listen from another room, or down the hall, as part of the "does it sound right process" if the emotions still come across, AFAIC it's fine.

One of Eno's Oblique stratagies...

"Shut the door and listen from outside"

could probably do that with EQ/filters now

[RichardT]

This is a different kind of 'not finishing' - the song is finished but we can't stop working on it.

This is an important issue for painters who can't go back to a previous version if they overwork things.

How would it affect completing songs if we couldn't go backwards either? This I'm guessing is why it can be helpful to commit to things early on. But on the other hand it would bring a whole new level of stress to the decision on when to stop.

[BigRedX]

One of Eno's Oblique stratagies...

"Shut the door and listen from outside"

could probably do that with EQ/filters now

When listening to other people's songs I've found the reverse happens. Often the first time I hear a "new" song is when AppleMusic automatically chooses some for me after a playlist has ended. I've lost count of songs that don't sound as good (to me) when the noise of the car is no longer masking the non-essential parts.

[amanise]

One of Eno's Oblique stratagies...

"Shut the door and listen from outside"

could probably do that with EQ/filters now

When listening to other people's songs I've found the reverse happens. Often the first time I hear a "new" song is when AppleMusic automatically chooses some for me after a playlist has ended. I've lost count of songs that don't sound as good (to me) when the noise of the car is no longer masking the non-essential parts.

Now that's an interesting idea for a continuous drone loop, a grumpy Monday morning commute sample.

[Drew Stephenson]

Actually on time this week...

Part 6 - Story arcs

Let's talk about story arcs and having something to say.

A story arc is basically just a fancy way of saying the 'beginning, middle and end' that you're familiar with from creative writing at school. You'll often encounter it as the 'three-act-play' structure that forms the core of most plays and movies.

The first act sets up the story: our hero, their life and, at the end of act, the change that upsets the normal. The second act then introduces all the fall out from the change, the difficulties that our hero has to battle with and frequently ends with all seeming lost and the low point of the story. The third act then deals with the our hero overcoming the challenges, frequently both internal and external, some form of learning and redemption and then happily ever after.

That's an approach that has kept story tellers of all kinds in business for literally thousands of years.

Now I'm not remotely suggesting that you need to build this into all your work, but ask yourself what tale your song is currently telling. Does it have those elements? Set-up, change, challenge, fall or fail, redemption and resolution?

Is something missing? Is something over-played? Is your story arc more of a flat line?

Fundamentally, what are you trying to say? Have you said everything that needs to be said? Are you saying too much?

This last one is a common error, and one of the masters of avoiding this is Bruce Springsteen. He has a wonderful way of setting up a story and then leaving it unresolved. Black Cowboys and Highway 29 are good examples.

Another way of thinking about this is in terms of tension and release.

Lets transport ourselves back in time to our folk singer in a pub. Our singer uses the verse to tell the story (quite possibly in a classic three-act-play structure) building the tension through each verse as we introduce our characters and their peril, each verse increases the tension and the chorus, where everyone joins in, gives that release until finally everyone has either shot, stabbed or poisoned themselves or everyone else. It's what happens in folk songs.

This keeps the audience hooked in using three techniques. First, there's the hero-challenge-resolution of the story arc, second there's the audience participation in the chorus, and finally there's the careful management of tension across the piece.

You'll often find a kind of proto-middle-8 in folk music where a last verse will mostly follow the usual harmony but heavily slowed down and with a minor chord or two slipped in to be suitably tragic.

So look at your song and work out what's building tension and what's providing release. And if things are feeling a little flat then that's a great place to introduce a middle 8 or bridge - because you can set that up to do either.

Of course how you choose to approach that tension and release cycle is up to you as well. It doesn't have to follow the same cycle as your verse and chorus. Some songs will reverse it with the verse providing the release and the chorus the tension - All My Heroes by Bleachers for example - some will do it more frequently, some will just do it a couple of times, and some, like You As You Were by Shearwater just follow a single growing tension thread throughout the song as it grows and grows until a final climactic release. Jefferson Airplane's White Rabbit is another good example of this approach.

It's easy to think of these ideas of story arc and tension and release as being lyrical devices but I think they apply just as much to instrumental work. The idea of introducing themes and instrumentation is part of the set up, the change and challenge of the second act comes as you adapt and counter those initial themes, until we end with a satisfying musical resolution - or not! You can leave the audience hanging.

Which highlights one way of building tension in the music, don't resolve the musical progression when expected; lob an extra bar in there or jump out earlier. Similarly tension can be added with discords, unexpected instrumentation or polyrhythms. Listen to the first chorus/post-chorus of 'All My Heroes' again for a few of those elements. This is then released with the simple structure of the verse. Andrew Bird's Left Handed Kisses, mentioned earlier, is worth studying from this perspective too.

The vocal-instrument balance is, of course, another way to add colour and variety to your song structure. I hesitate to suggest it, but the old cliche of the instrument solo is there for a purpose. Well, it should be. Personally I've heard far too many songs and bands where solos are jammed into every song without thought to what purpose they're actually serving.

But used as a tool to build that story arc or work that tension and release they are very powerful. As is putting a sudden vocal arrangement into an otherwise instrumental piece. Remember Outro by M83 from the previous instalment for example. Or consider Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits, where the vocal delivery is almost spoken and the answering guitar part carries the bulk of the emotional intent.

So before setting off on an epic of technical noodling, please ask yourself if it's really serving the song.

It's worth reminding ourselves at this point of why we took that detour into song structure last time, and that's to help us take those scraps of ideas, those half-finished bits and pieces, and to give you some tools and techniques to turn them into complete songs.

Got a verse and a chorus? Good start - what story are you trying to tell? What's missing?

Everything feeling a bit flat? How can we mix things up a bit and get the audience hanging on the next note, yearning for a conclusion?

That's what these ideas should help you do.

Let me know in the comments what works for you - and what doesn't.

As usual you can find links and the rest of the series here: https://roughtorelease.blogspot.com/202 ... -arcs.html

[adrian_k]

Got a verse and a chorus? Good start - what story are you trying to tell? What's missing?

This is the crux for me. I either don't have anything to say (most of the time), or it's so personal it's probably inexplicable, and I wouldn't want anyone else to hear it anyway.

Occasionally a song presents itself. The song I've submitted for the SOS album this year, the words and music just came out in 20 minutes, I didn't have a great deal to do with it. I don't like the music, it's not a style I would choose to listen to or work in. I didn't set out to write the song, but I just started singing something and there it was. I've tried to "finish" it ( = get it up to demo level) but I don't like the mix and don't want to work on it any more.

I'm actually pretty good at helping other people write songs, but my stuff is extremely unsatisfying. Not quite true, the process of mucking about musically is great, but the idea of an end product is a kind of tyranny.

I've been thinking about the definition of "finish". Maybe it depends what the function of the song is - it's finished when it satisfies that function. I kind of think that the modern Western thing of recording music (including writing it down) imposes a concept of being finished and owned. Whereas, where songs evolve through being shared and passed on they can have their own life. Maybe a song is finished when you hear other people singing it back to you (or maybe it's just been born?).

OK, time for my meds.

[Drew Stephenson]

I have promised that we will return to the concept of 'finished' in due course. That may be the week after next if I get my arse in gear.

[zenguitar]

As well as a blog on finishing your songs...

Could we request a song about finishing your blogs?

Asking for a friend

Andy

[adrian_k]

As well as a blog on finishing your songs...

Could we request a song about finishing your blogs?

Asking for a friend

Andy

[Drew Stephenson]

As well as a blog on finishing your songs...

Could we request a song about finishing your blogs?

Asking for a friend

Andy

[trunkdog]

Just read this post and R2R cover to cover at one sitting. Thx to Drew and all contributors; I'm indebted… I'll be offering my insights when my vision returns (a head-on auto collision forces me to read with one eye shut) pretty darn annoying, but hey, this is good stuff!