Mic and FX adjustments when going from singing softly to cupping a harmonica

[alexis]

Vocal mic: Earthworks SR117 stage condenser mic.
Signal routing: Voice and keys into a Mackie ProFX12v3+ mixer, https://mackie.com/en/products/mixers/p ... 3plus.html , signals from there going to IEMs as well as FOH.

Hi!

I was wondering if anyone might have some suggestions please for stage ergonomics as I switch from vocals to harmonica in a live setting.

I occasionally play keyboards and sing a bit in a low volume way in a band, sparse arrangements; in the same session I may also just play some keys accompanying the whole band. I've just been asked to bring a harmonica tomorrow to support the Blues Brothers song, "Sweet Home Chicago", which is just an extended 12-bar blues in E.

What I'm unsure about is:
1) Will I have to turn the trim down on the mic input to the Mackie when I move from soft singing to harmonica? I normally back off the mic for louder singing, but I can't do that while cupping a harmonica ...
2) What would be the best FX on the Mackie to choose for the harmonica? It presents limited options of (from link above) delay, reverb, delay + reverb, chorus, delay + chorus, reverb + chorus. I don't have a "distort this" FX I'm thinking, given these limited options, maybe a slap back delay (plus reverb) might work?

Any suggestions welcome, the more detailed the better in terms of delay/reverb values -

Thank you!

[James Perrett]

Use a different mic for the harmonica.

Don't look for recipes - learn the principles and how to apply them.

[alexis]

Use a different mic for the harmonica.

Don't look for recipes - learn the principles and how to apply them.

Yes, thank you James.

Starting points when doing that are helpful of course . Never having done this before, that is what I seek today for tomorrow's session!

Thanks for any more help if anyone has experience or suggestions

[Philbo King]

A 2nd mic is best, especially when doing blues. A harmonica often has different EQ needs than a vocal.

But if you have to do it, backing away from the mic 4 to 6 inches is a good idea, maybe further if you sing softly. (due to the mic gain being increased to compensate). This prevents the harmonica from being excessively loud in the mix.

As always, listen to what your instrument sounds like in the mix and adjust your performance to compensate.

[AlecSp]

The others beast me to it.

Best solution - second mic
Quickest solution - adapt the performance using mic technique and ears.

[alexis]

Got it, thank you!

I've got a dynamic mic, I'll see if I can make that work.

I've looked around on some harmonica sites, and it seems delay plus verb plus distortion are what sound best with blues harmonicas. Maybe one day I can get the FOH guy to help me set something he can call up in his mixer with the right effects, but for now I'm limited to what my personal Mackie can send out, which is delay plus reverb (no distortion listed in few possible effects).

I'm not interested in getting a harmonica amp or pedals to do it right, as this is the first time for me and the group to work a harmonica in - might not work out!

Any recommendations on what duration delays are good starting points to try for blues harmonica?

Magic Dickish-type sounds would be nice ( )!
https://youtu.be/ASF5CpqP6HY?si=KNBpRB2jpXlY1PMl

[shufflebeat]

[pre-note] I just noticed your “no pedals” comment so this post is probably irrelevant.

I played for years with A very good blues harmonica player who did everything he needed to with an sm58 and his hands.

However, this was some time ago and since then loads of magic boxes have been developed including, at the cheaper end, the Zoom a1 Four which, while being designed primarily for acoustic guitars, also has a handy XLR-TS (jack) adaptor, making it possible to apply compression, reverbs and various other witchery to brass, vocals and harmonica.

You will, of course, open up a whole bucket of technical worms but it could be fun.

In the meantime, ‘58 and hands.

[alexis]

[pre-note] I just noticed your “no pedals” comment so this post is probably irrelevant.

I played for years with A very good blues harmonica player who did everything he needed to with an sm58 and his hands.

...
In the meantime, ‘58 and hands.

"Any very good harmonica players near by? Anyone?"

"Not here, sir!"

I know it was a long time ago, but would you happen to remember did he go into a guitar amp, or ...?

Thanks, shufflebeat!

[Kwackman]

I'm pretty sure a few decades ago there was an article in Guitarist about Dr Feelgood's harmonica going through a guitar amp, I THINK it was an early Cornell. Memory can be hazy though..

[Sam Spoons]

A 'Green Bullet' mic and a guitar amp (Fender Deluxe springs to mind but there were many others used) used to be the standard blues harp rig.

[alexis]

A 'Green Bullet' mic and a guitar amp (Fender Deluxe springs to mind but there were many others used) used to be the standard blues harp rig.

Thanks, Sam!

From what I've read today the Green Bullet is still popular. Fender is also, the Champion 20 made a list in a harmonica blog, can't remember about the Deluxe with springs.

Tomorrow (unless they change their mind!) I'll be trying out a run of the mill dynamic mic (I don't own an SM58, so an EV n/d767a), and whatever delay plus reverb my small personal Mackie can offer (I saw that combo dialed in when I zoomed in on a photo of the Fender Champion 20 in another blog ).

[AlecSp]

I'm pretty sure a few decades ago there was an article in Guitarist about Dr Feelgood's harmonica going through a guitar amp, I THINK it was an early Cornell. Memory can be hazy though..

They don't any more.

Based on the times I've mixed them, including this summer, Robert just uses his SM58 vocal mic.

I've had a few harp players with their own "special mics" and "special amps", but most just use a vocal mic.

[shufflebeat]

I know it was a long time ago, but would you happen to remember did he go into a guitar amp, or ...?

Thanks, shufflebeat!

He always spoke fondly of his “full blues rig” of an Astatic mic and Fender Bassman, although our repertoire was more folky and didn’t require such dedicated hardware.

With guitar amp sims being so good these days I’d not be surprised if all the harp players are taking advantage of them as well.

[alexis]

Thanks for everybody's help!

First time practice with harmonica went great. I forgot to change over to the dynamic mic, but people still seemed to like it, at least enough not to ban me and my harmonica to the river. Everything went out the PA.

I cupped the mic while it was still on the stand. I was still sitting. Not surprisingly, no panties were thrown on stage.

Will hold off on special mic and special amp, at least until this process declares itself to be more than a novelty. Probably longer!

Thanks again, everyone!

[Drew Stephenson]

Very handy harmonica player I was recording a few weeks ago just uses an SM57. He's used a Green Bullet in the past but, whilst being great for blues stuff, didn't give him a clean enough sound for the country stuff. He runs a 57 into small acoustic amp and then mic's that up.

[alexis]

To bring this back full circle:

I wound up playing the harmonica through first a dynamic mic (EV n/d 767a), then at another practice a capacitor mic (Earthworks 317), all with only the same minimal plate verb I use for my voice.

It's always hard for me to assess the noises that emanates from my mouth, harp included, but the feedback from the group was that it was OK enough that they asked me to concoct a solo for another song that doesn't even use a harmonica on the recording.

My take home lesson from this: spending a lot of money (Green Bullet mic, Fender amp which would in turn need to be mic'd) is absolutely unnecessary at the level of the cover band I'm in.

Signed,

Grateful for the advice and having fun

[shufflebeat]

V wise.

[alexis]

V wise.

Thank you, shufflebeat!