What do we think of the Berry Fuzz Bender?

[tea for two]

roundabouts?

In our usual ROUNDABOUT

Roundabout you say.

Yes shirley would made brilliant tunes songs if they used any gear even berry were berry around then.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QOrrNM4md ... dCB5ZXM%3D
The opening Acoustic Guitar still shivers me timbers.
Steve Howe reportedly had Marshall Supa Fuzz.

[Arpangel]

Very true but ref your last sentence Tony? I bet you are one of those people who are always late for ***t!

Dave.

Before I met my partner I was never late for anything, now I'm late for everything.

Does your partner drive? My wife never learned and seemed to think cars were some sort of teleportation device!

Dave.

She can drive, but I tend to do most of the driving, she learnt to drive in the USA, and finds roundabouts a bit of a challenge here.

Hang on, isn’t this thread supposed to be about guitar pedals? how on earth did we get onto roundabouts?

In our usual, ROUNDABOUT rambling fashion Arp!

Dave.

I must have given way to the left, instead of the right.

[arkieboy]

Do not be fooled people. "True Bypass" is just a way to make things a little cheaper and charge you more for the privilege!

Dave.

I'm not. My first pedal after my wah is a JRockett Archer with that lovely Klon Centaur buffer permanently in circuit.

[ef37a]

Do not be fooled people. "True Bypass" is just a way to make things a little cheaper and charge you more for the privilege!

Dave.

I'm not. My first pedal after my wah is a JRockett Archer with that lovely Klon Centaur buffer permanently in circuit.

Ha! Not that £4,600 Klon I just found on Ebay I trust? My warning was not aimed at you friend just a comment for any newbs looking in. Of course, if every pedal maker fitted a front and back end buffer, (where appropriate, i.e. almost always) it would add but a few cents to the cost and save peeps buying a extra bolt on device.

In the 'Ball of Chalk, Piece of String' world of guitar electronics the TL072 and its ilk is more than good enough.

Dave.

[Arpangel]

Do not be fooled people. "True Bypass" is just a way to make things a little cheaper and charge you more for the privilege!

Dave.

I'm not. My first pedal after my wah is a JRockett Archer with that lovely Klon Centaur buffer permanently in circuit.

Ha! Not that £4,600 Klon I just found on Ebay I trust? My warning was not aimed at you friend just a comment for any newbs looking in. Of course, if every pedal maker fitted a front and back end buffer, (where appropriate, i.e. almost always) it would add but a few cents to the cost and save peeps buying a extra bolt on device.

In the 'Ball of Chalk, Piece of String' world of guitar electronics the TL072 and its ilk is more than good enough.

Dave.

How can anyone charge £4,600 just for "adding" distortion, I can do that with any piece of gear I’ve got, just by overloading it, I think were going back to the days when musicians were a lot more gullible than they are now..

[Sam Spoons]

Really Tony? I think they were somewhat less gullible back in the day. A Fuzz Face or Tone Bender probably cost around 25 quid back then and even allowing for inflation that still only stacks up to around £400 today.

[arkieboy]

Ha! Not that £4,600 Klon I just found on Ebay I trust?

Finnegan, who commissioned the design of the Klon and ran the business from a card-playing table in his house engaged JRocket IIRC to produce the first mass-production version of the Klon - the original KTR. When they fell out but JRocket carried on making Klon Clones under the 'Archer' name.

The Klon buffer circuit is well respected - you can buy stand-alone versions of it.

(Wonks will no doubt be along soon to point out I've missed a detail. I've made my peace with the gods of pedal lore )

[ef37a]

Really Tony? I think they were somewhat less gullible back in the day. A Fuzz Face or Tone Bender probably cost around 25 quid back then and even allowing for inflation that still only stacks up to around £400 today.

I consider the prices asked for many pedals to be extortionate.
I am well acquainted with the Blackstar HT-Dual for example. This pedal has a 2 layer PCB of good quality, thru hole components so not cheap, a double triode running from a full 250V supply produced from a rather clever converter circuit.
There are 4 modes. Clean, and 3 distortion mode, TMB EQ plus a notch filter. An emulated output to drive a PA or for recording. MASSIVE headroom, better than the front end of most valve amps and all for £250.

Then I see pretty poorly featured OD pedals which can be little more than a few transistors/FETs or/and op amps and they want 300 quid plus for them!

The growth of the home recording market has spawned the likes of Behringer. They are both a blessing and a curse. Many people who "don't have a ******* clue" can now afford some very decent recording gear but they are ignorant and thus prey to the snake oil and BS merchants.

Dave.

[Music Wolf]

A Fuzz Face or Tone Bender probably cost around 25 quid back then and even allowing for inflation that still only stacks up to around £400 today.

My first ever pedal was a Tone Bender (I think a Mk III) bought new, on sale, in 1977. I have a vague recollection that it cost me £13, which would equate to £75 today. Still quite a bit of money for a 14 year old.

The likes of Hendix used these pedals because that's all that were available to them at the time and they incorporated these sounds into their music. If they'd had the choice that we have today they may well have produced stuff that sounded very different, but it would still have been great because it's the artist that counts.

[Arpangel]

Really Tony? I think they were somewhat less gullible back in the day. A Fuzz Face or Tone Bender probably cost around 25 quid back then and even allowing for inflation that still only stacks up to around £400 today.

You’re right, but back then, there was far less choice, and we had to use what was available, which sort of defined the sound of the era, and a lot of players.
Dave, yes, prices are crazy now, and everyone seems to be making pedals, some of which the only thing going for them is the arty paint job.

[ef37a]

A Fuzz Face or Tone Bender probably cost around 25 quid back then and even allowing for inflation that still only stacks up to around £400 today.

My first ever pedal was a Tone Bender (I think a Mk III) bought new, on sale, in 1977. I have a vague recollection that it cost me £13, which would equate to £75 today. Still quite a bit of money for a 14 year old.

The likes of Hendix used these pedals because that's all that were available to them at the time and they incorporated these sounds into their music. If they'd had the choice that we have today they may well have produced stuff that sounded very different, but it would still have been great because it's the artist that counts.

That point, that we would have loved the sound these bands produced even if it had been very different is well made.
The 'classic' 4 x 12 guitar cab breaks just about every "rule" in the hi fi speaker book. Pretty crap, stiff cones, leaky box that is far too small for four 12" speakers, speakers partly in series, cab made of bendy ply with virtually no bracing (the more "hi fi" MDF does not 'sound' nearly as good apparently) N0 science or engineering thought went into these boxes. They were just about big enough to house the drive units.

But we loved 'em! Same illogic applies to drive unit size. A 12" sounds 'right'. There are a few decent ten inch guitar speakers but almost no eights.

On the other hand there is an awful lot of BS spoken about "guitar amp sound'. I doubt that in a proper double blind test it would be hard to differentiate between EL34s and 6L6s and I would bet under test only a handful of OD pedals are really different? And once the gear is on the stage the punter will NEVER know if that pedal cost you 50 quid or 500 (IMHO!)

Dave (Kevlar lid on!)

[Sam Spoons]

Totally agree about the '60s and lack of choice being the driver, all we had were fuzz boxes and not many of those (I can remember the Fuzz Face, Tone Bender and the Vox Treble Booster). Everything else came along later.

[Martin Walker]

Dave, yes, prices are crazy now, and everyone seems to be making pedals, some of which the only thing going for them is the arty paint job.

This +1

[Forum Admin]

And once the gear is on the stage the punter will NEVER know if that pedal cost you 50 quid or 500 (IMHO!)

Incoming!!! Spot on Dave.

[ManFromGlass]

Can you put a price on inspiration?

Asks the guy who dropped a bundle on 2 modern pedals that are still blowing his mind!

[tea for two]

My favourite Guitar pedals are ones that make me sound not utterly crap.

[ef37a]

Can you put a price on inspiration?

Asks the guy who dropped a bundle on 2 modern pedals that are still blowing his mind!

This is the "Gear paradox"! Nobody wants to upset anyone who is super happy with their kit!
The problem extends to amps, AIs, mixers and almost every piece of audio gear. Never has there been so much equipment which has a performance well ahead of anything used in the '60s in the best studios at very affordable prices.

So long as you are really happy with the pedals it is nobody's BB what you paid for them.

My main point is that newbs should not handwring about gear. Most of it is well fit for purpose and the real sonic differences between good, mid priced gear and the expensive exotica are probably only detectable if you have £8,000 monitors, a superbly treated room and an impeccable signal source.
Otherwise HOW could people stand the distortions and other shortcomings of tape and vinyl?

Dave.

[ManFromGlass]

she learnt to drive in the USA,

So you keep a gun in the car?

[Forum Admin]

Otherwise HOW could people stand the distortions and other shortcomings of tape and vinyl?
Dave.

It's easy when the MUSIC is good to listen through the shortcomings of any recording/playback format and relate to the emotion.

[Drew Stephenson]

It's easy when the MUSIC is good to listen through the shortcomings of any recording/playback format and relate to the emotion.

I keep telling myself this but something seems to be missing...

[ManFromGlass]

Perhaps you need to suffer more for your art?
That should transcend any pops + crackles

[N i g e l]

I did look up some Germanium transistor sources, they are asking around 70 quid for three. When I recall all the transistors we binned when we moved our TV service dept I could bloody weep!

Dave.

Behringer have a chip factory, Cool Audio, where they make the specialist chips for some of their recreations [like Curtis style VCF VCA etc].
They might also make specialist transistors ?

Stuff that was common and 10 a penny back in the day but is expensive and rare now due to lack of demand.

[ef37a]

I did look up some Germanium transistor sources, they are asking around 70 quid for three. When I recall all the transistors we binned when we moved our TV service dept I could bloody weep!

Dave.

Behringer have a chip factory, Cool Audio, where they make the specialist chips for some of their recreations [like Curtis style VCF VCA etc].
They might also make specialist transistors ?

Stuff that was common and 10 a penny back in the day but is expensive and rare now due to lack of demand.

I stand to be corrected* but I am not at all sure that Germanium transistors really have a different 'sonic' effect from Silicon? Yes, Ge turns on at about 0.2V instead of 0.7V but once it's on the fekkers ON! Then it is surely just a transistor following the same equations as any other?

The world has moved on I know but back in the days of Studio Sound and Hi-Fi News (before it went tweaky!) someone would have done the tests and we would have had a reliable statement of whether the two elements really do sound different. Remember, the first transistor power amplifiers were all Ge transistors. I had a beautiful CTH 100W 100V amp which used ten OC26 OP transistors. I cannot recall anyone saying that Silicon sounded better or worse?

*But NOT just a subjective rant please. Do the work and compare the same circuits and post the results including audio clips.

Dave.

[N i g e l]

My fuzzies are digital so I cant help with the technical stuff but there are plenty of sound comparisons on uTube.

1 of many vids....

These boxes dont even have a circuit board let alone a microprocessor
....and the inside of the enclosure is painted !

playing starts at 5:32....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWov8RsRM4

[Arpangel]

she learnt to drive in the USA,

So you keep a gun in the car?

There's a story there, but I'm not telling it on a public forum.