Perfectly mixed song sounds bad on mobile devices from Youtube

[bencuri]

You mean the frequencies over 20K? That is just the rush of work. I forgot cutting the unnecessary off.

I probably phrased it badly. What I meant is that you are boosting the sounds that you think are too quiet. Instead, try cutting the sounds that are too loud because these sounds are masking the sounds that you want to hear.

When you go to the studio you should also take along some commercial recordings that sound good to you on your hifi so that you have a known reference to compare things to. I'll bet that commercial recordings don't have as much going on below 100Hz as your recording does.

Haha, you arrived to the source of the problem even if you did not know the full story. I cannot use a reference here. Almost all records I have from this genre suffer from the problem that I am describing in this case. But I did not want to mention that because it deserves a separate topic, I wanted to talk about that aspect later as it would be too much for 1 single topic. That's why I suggest to focus on this recording only. We can compare it to other styles, I have reference from those for my system, the experiences I have listening to those were concluded in this recent project.

I can show you something however that is my genre, and I used that as a direct inspiration for this recent project:

https://youtu.be/VDdKk6-mSuA?si=IV7dRMbkOEoSAvEX&t=106

It suffers from the same symptoms like my mix. Good on quality speakers, bad on low end I did not even notice it so far, just now that I have problems with my project. I love the mix there, the lead guitar is a bit low, but apart from that I love how the bass is mixed. I tried to replicate this on my mix, because I knew it will sound so good on the HiFi.

About boosting certain sounds: depends on which part of the spectrum you mean. Yes, I boosted certain stuff that obviously could be flagged as better to mix down, but all I did was just to listen on the built in laptop speakers, and adjust this until I am satisfied. And that curve on the photo is the result. This is how I find it sounds good on such low end stuff. Some adjustments also go against what I expected, but this is how I hear it sounds good.

[bencuri]

But using hi-fi speakers (or headphones) as the main tool never works out (If binaural material is excluded). It introduces plenty of issues you end up spending way too much time fixing in case you later work on the mix with studio monitors.

I wonder how much experience you have in proper commercial studios? I use speakers that were sold as hifi speakers as my main monitors and have done for over 30 years. Before I owned them, they had been used as main monitors in two other working studios including (apparently) mixing an album by a very well known guitarist. The mixes and masters that I produce on them translate well to all kinds of other systems.

There are no hard and fast rules about hifi speakers and monitors - it totally depends on the exact models of each that you are talking about.

Engineeringwise I am totally self taught and has never been to a proper studio for a longer period.

But again this is what I referred to: when we listened to albums from this genre in the studio on active monitors and passive HiFi speakers, the difference was very big even on official releases from this genre. On the studio monitors it sounded okay, then we switched to the passive HiFi, and it sounded awful. Had the same experience on various systems out of the studio. So during the years I started listening for what mix versions may sound good on HiFi in this genre, and when the time came to mix a project on my own, I took that experience to reverse the trend: make it good for the HiFi so finally I can be satisfied with a release when I sit down and listen to it on passive High End HiFi. And yes, the result is a true reverse because now on other stuff it sounds bad, so it is the opposite of the usual trend.

But as I mentioned this would deserve its own topic, and does not have relevance from the aspect that mobile speakers and low end stuff favour a high dominant mix, and it is independent of genre, but in my case it does really bad to the ideal HiFi mix when you want to arrive to a compromise.

[PedroTheThird]

On the studio monitors it sounded okay, then we switched to the passive HiFi, and it sounded awful.

Usually it's the other way around but his can happen as well. But it showcases how important it is to check a mix on different devices, even in different listening environments (Treated vs untreated room) - if you want your mix to sound as similar as possible. Which brings me to the next point...

make it good for the HiFi so finally I can be satisfied with a release when I sit down and listen to it on passive High End HiFi.

This might be an odd question, but: If you decided to only mix for hi-fi systems anyway then why are you concerned about how it sounds on smartphones? It's like making a binaural mix and then being stressed about it not translating well to speakers. Why does it matter in the first place?

[James Perrett]

I can show you something however that is my genre, and I used that as a direct inspiration for this recent project:

https://youtu.be/VDdKk6-mSuA?si=IV7dRMbkOEoSAvEX&t=106

It suffers from the same symptoms like my mix. Good on quality speakers, bad on low end I did not even notice it so far, just now that I have problems with my project.

That track sounds like it was mixed by the drummer

That's not a good reference track and I'm not surprised that it has problems on other systems. It seems that you prefer what most people would consider to be a skewed sound with excessive bass. That's fine if you are just doing it for yourself but if you are hoping to create something for release then you need to re-calibrate your ears and tastes towards a sound that is more universal.

One other thought - how loud are you listening when you mix through the hifi speakers? Our perceptions change with different volume levels and I like to mix at fairly low levels as it is too easy to make a mix sound impressive at high volumes. You have to work much harder if you want a mix to sound good at low volumes.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

[MOF]

PedroTheThird wrote: ↑
Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

Personally I agree with Pedro, getting the centred tracks e.g. lead vocal to the correct level is just not possible.

[Folderol]

Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

Indeed. On my setup I can switch instantly between phones and speakers, They match pretty closely (in volume as well as response). The exception being the Bass, where the phones don't exhibit the annoying room nodes.

[The Elf]

Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

I have a catalogue of successful commercial albums and tracks that say otherwise...

[The Red Bladder]

Perfectly mixed song sounds bad on mobile devices from Youtube

Like all daft questions, the answer is in the question -

Then it was not perfectly mixed!

Tip - start the mix on that crap speaker and in mono, then move slowly up the chain via headphones and on to decent speakers. And back-check on the crap speaker as you go.

[The Red Bladder]

Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

I have a catalogue of successful commercial albums and tracks that say otherwise...

[PedroTheThird]

I have a catalogue of successful commercial albums and tracks that say otherwise...

As if financial success would say anything about quality. It's like saying Trump must be a better president than Harris just because he got more votes.

[PedroTheThird]

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

I already mentioned the difference between ILD- and ITD-based stereophony which you should be familiar with if you ever worked as an audio engineer. If headphones would sound just like speakers, both stereophony types would sound exactly the same on both systems - which is obviously not the case (If you can't hear the difference you're deaf without exaggerating). Aside from that I would appreciate if you keep things professional and civil. No more personal attacks please.

[PedroTheThird]

getting the centred tracks e.g. lead vocal to the correct level is just not possible.

That's another good example. Every audio engineer runs into this issue sooner or later.

[PedroTheThird]

The exception being the Bass, where the phones don't exhibit the annoying room nodes.

That's what acoustic treatment is for. Reducing room modes until they fall below the simultaneous auditory masking threshold is actually cheaper than a good set of headphones.

[tea for two]

Pedro Como Vai.
Pedro would you share your background, experiences of working in the audio recording industry.

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

No more personal attacks please.

Pedro where is the personal attack could you point out the personal attack. Hugh is being light hearted here.

In the 2decades Hugh been helping on SoS foruumes I haven't seen a single instance of such.

Hugh is very much on the audio scientific spectrum. Is also a World Class audio engineer for Classical Choral.

https://www.soundonsound.com/author/hugh-robjohns
"Hugh Robjohns has been Sound On Sound's Technical Editor since 1997. Prior to that he worked in a variety of (mostly) sound-related roles in BBC Television, ending up as a Sound Operations Lecturer at the BBC's technical training centre.

He continues to provide audio consultancy and bespoke broadcast audio training services all over the world, lectures at professional and public conventions, and occasionally records and masters acoustic and classical music too! "

[Drew Stephenson]

I would appreciate if you keep things professional and civil. No more personal attacks please.

+

As if financial success would say anything about quality.

=

does not compute.

[The Elf]

I have a catalogue of successful commercial albums and tracks that say otherwise...

As if financial success would say anything about quality. It's like saying Trump must be a better president than Harris just because he got more votes.

I've not had anyone tell me my mixes are anything less than releasable quality.

So how do you define 'quality'?

[PedroTheThird]

I would appreciate if we could talk about audio engineering. I would appreciate if we keep things professional and civil to learn from each other and to make progress. There are plenty of platforms for pointless argumentum ad hominem fights like Reddit or X. It's your choice if this forum is better than that - or not. I want it to be better.

[The Elf]

PedroTheThird wrote: ↑
Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

Hmmm.. you might want to put on a tin hat as I suspect there's about to be some incoming opposition to that rather bold claim!

Personally I agree with Pedro, getting the centred tracks e.g. lead vocal to the correct level is just not possible.

Yes it is. Sorry, but one person's 'fact' is not everyone's. If my mixes didn't come up to scratch I wouldn't be asked to do it - and I'm asked every day.

[James Perrett]

Headphone mixes never translate well to speakers no matter how good the headphones are and how well they have been calibrated.

I have a catalogue of successful commercial albums and tracks that say otherwise...

I probably don't have a track record as long as The Elf's but I do have some mixes on a top 20 album (in sales) this week.

[PedroTheThird]

So how do you define 'quality'?

An already mentioned example would be if a mix translates well to other systems.

[The Elf]

So how do you define 'quality'?

An already mentioned example would be if a mix translates well to other systems.

And mine do.

[James Perrett]

I would appreciate if we could talk about audio engineering. I would appreciate if we keep things professional and civil to learn from each other and to make progress. There are plenty of platforms for pointless argumentum ad hominem fights like Reddit or X. It's your choice if this forum is better than that - or not. I want it to be better.

If you want a better experience here then take some time to get to know us. We have a broad range of people here, from home studio beginners up to seasoned experienced professionals with great albums to their credit. You never know who you might be talking to here as people don't necessarily trumpet their achievements.

Up until now you have posted opinions which appear to have been formed through theoretical knowledge rather than practical recording experience. We don't know who you are or how much knowledge you really have to back up your opinions. Many forum members know each other outside this forum - sometimes we've been introduced through this place while at other times we will know each other from working together or playing music together. I'd like to think that this is one of the friendliest audio engineering forums around - just take a bit of time to lurk here before posting so that you can gain a feel for the place.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I already mentioned the difference between ILD- and ITD-based stereophony which you should be familiar with if you ever worked as an audio engineer.

Do you have any idea who you're patronising here?

Aside from that I would appreciate if you keep things professional and civil. No more personal attacks please.

There was no personal attack. The laughing emoji highlighted my lighthearted attempt to point out that your opinion is not fact, and there are some very experienced, successful and highly credited professional mixers contributing here who work almost exclusively with headphone mixing.

Yes, the headphone experience is different from the loudspeaker experience, for a host of technical reasons, and most people find mixing easier on loudspeakers. But, particularly when using cardinal panning and ILD techniques, mixing on headphones is certainly a skill that can be learned.

[Urthlupe]

I would appreciate if we could talk about audio engineering. I would appreciate if we keep things professional and civil to learn from each other and to make progress. There are plenty of platforms for pointless argumentum ad hominem fights like Reddit or X. It's your choice if this forum is better than that - or not. I want it to be better.

You’ve fundamentally misunderstood this place bud.

Take a breath and a little time to figure out what happens here - worthwhile considerate contributions are valued - you seem to be very capable of that.

Loopy